Painting 101

[hare]

if your going 2 get a dual action sander involved *LOL* I'd recommend a Hutchins dual action.. the throw is MUCH smoother than say a snap on or a matco or a devillbis..THEY are very smooth on a surface and will improve the overall surface prep by far.. http://www.eastwoodco.com/jump.jsp?i...emType=PRODUCT

[hare]

a local auto body shop with a good painter should be able to color match your case for you for about a 6 pack *LOL* OR go to your local auto paint and supply store and they will match it for you.. but they will charge ya a penny or 2. they have books full of chips that they can use to match your case perfectly.. then they will mix up a quart for you ... look forward to about 44.00 depending on the color..

[Planet]

well, ya you can do it that way but you'll get a uneven finish.. your fingers laying flat on the surface will leave indentations , lines in a way.. use a wet sanding sponge and keep it flat to the surface and wet ! use at least 400 grit for enamel and 1000 for laquer..between coats. final sand is up to you. 1200, 1600, 2000.. the finer used =better the finish and improved refraction

Thanks. I know not to use your hands on aluminum. Ive done sheetmetal work on my race cars before. I have a few sanding blocks for prep and finish work as well. So your saying use 400 on the base coat and 1000 on the base coat in between coats? Not doubting you just double checking.

if your going 2 get a dual action sander involved *LOL* I'd recommend a Hutchins dual action.. the throw is MUCH smoother than say a snap on or a matco or a devillbis..THEY are very smooth on a surface and will improve the overall surface prep by far.. http://www.eastwoodco.com/jump.jsp?i...emType=PRODUCT

I will def check it out. I will be doing my project car and prolly a few cases for different projects with it. Thanks for the link. Again thanks for all your help. I appreciate it. If I get a chance ill throw a six pack your way

[hare]

for surface preparation .. enamel ,400 grit on primer surface and 1000 for primer surface if using laquer BEFORE paint... between coats = enamel 400 . laquer stay with 600 between coats at least .. it's personal preference really as long as you DO not end up with sand scratches in your finish .. enamel is much more forgiving than laquer. . If your shooting DUPONT imron *LOL* blast it with 220 and shoot that pudding man.. depending on the paint manufacurer they will suggest finish preparation for maximum cohesion.. the trick is smooth as possible without your paint lifting off the primer/sealer base.
I always go with at least 400 on primer for enamel always.. laquer , myself I use 1000 on primer surface and 1000 between coats depending on orange peel ..if your having a bad day your going 2 need a more aggressive grit to keep the paint surface flat between coats.. in a reasonable amount of time..

[hare]

radical orange man.. looks sweet

[hare]

Aluminum surfaces are treated differently depending upon whether the metal is new or used. Paint must be able to "grip" or adhere to the surface onto which it is applied. Most aluminum surfaces have a layer of pure aluminum on the surface called alclad that protects the metal from corrosion. It is very smooth and not favorable to paint adhesion. Therefore the surface must be adequately prepared by cleaning and slightly roughening to guarantee primer adhesion. This is accomplished by using a conversion coating such as alodine. This chemical process creates a ceramic layer over the aluminum that coats the surface and provides tooth adhesion. Used aluminum must have any primers, paints, or corrosion removed. Paint strippers are used to remove old paint. After stripping old paint the corrosion should be completely eliminated. Use fine sandpaper, Scotch Brite pads, or aluminum wool. Never use steel wool or a steel brush. After the corrosion is removed the old aluminum should be acid etched. This is simply a process of washing the aluminum with a product such as Poly Fiber’s E-2310 Acid Etch diluted with water. An acid etch removes oil and light corrosion while etching or roughening the surface to provide a firm primer bond. The part is then thoroughly rinsed. Next wash the surface with E-2300 Conversion Coating that inhibits corrosion and further enhances primer adhesion. After this step the part is rinsed and allowed to completely dry. Once again, new aluminum surfaces need only be treated with a conversion coating.

After the aluminum (new or old) has been properly cleaned and treated, it is then primed. I would recommend using a two-part epoxy primer. An epoxy primer will insure corrosion protection and also provide a bonding surface for most topcoat paints. Very often, polyurethane topcoats will lift or wrinkle primers other than epoxies much as a paint stripper would do. A primer is necessary to provide a bond between the metal and the final topcoat paint. The primer coat should be applied according to the manufacturers directions. Usually, two light coats will be applied. Heavy coats should be avoided.

[iadstudio]

Great sticky! I have a question though. What about painting case interiors? I have an Antec 180 and it has the basic grey steel that a lot of cases use. Do I need to sand and prime it? or will some Rustoleum hold up in there sprayed right on the metal without any prep?

[Fujimitsu]

Fantastic guide thanks, gonna come in handy in the coming months. I've convinced my girlfriend she needs a new PC (on her dime of course)

[smashhell]

well, ya you can do it that way but you'll get a uneven finish.. your fingers laying flat on the surface will leave indentations , lines in a way.. use a wet sanding sponge and keep it flat to the surface and wet ! use at least 400 grit for enamel and 1000 for laquer..between coats. final sand is up to you. 1200, 1600, 2000.. the finer used =better the finish and improved refraction

Wait !

You need to sand it after paint ???

Great sticky! I have a question though. What about painting case interiors? I have an Antec 180 and it has the basic grey steel that a lot of cases use. Do I need to sand and prime it? or will some Rustoleum hold up in there sprayed right on the metal without any prep?

Same question needed.

Bonus Question:
Where can you buy Clear Coats ? Does HomeDepot sells them?

[iadstudio]

Wait !

You need to sand it after paint ???



Same question needed.

Bonus Question:
Where can you buy Clear Coats ? Does HomeDepot sells them?

You sand between coats to get the auto-like finish. It you just spray, you'll get the orange peel effect and depending on the color and finish you use, it could be quite noticeable. All depends on what you're looking for, but this guide tells you how to get a nice, smoothe, high luster finish.

Most hardware stores and auto parts stores will have a few different types of clearcoats.

[smashhell]

You sand between coats to get the auto-like finish. It you just spray, you'll get the orange peel effect and depending on the color and finish you use, it could be quite noticeable. All depends on what you're looking for, but this guide tells you how to get a nice, smoothe, high luster finish.

Most hardware stores and auto parts stores will have a few different types of clearcoats.

High Grit or Low Grit sandpaper?

Which Grit number would you suggest?

Thx !

[smashhell]

for surface preparation .. enamel ,400 grit on primer surface and 1000 for primer surface if using laquer BEFORE paint... between coats = enamel 400 . laquer stay with 600 between coats at least .. it's personal preference really as long as you DO not end up with sand scratches in your finish .. enamel is much more forgiving than laquer. . If your shooting DUPONT imron *LOL* blast it with 220 and shoot that pudding man.. depending on the paint manufacurer they will suggest finish preparation for maximum cohesion.. the trick is smooth as possible without your paint lifting off the primer/sealer base.
I always go with at least 400 on primer for enamel always.. laquer , myself I use 1000 on primer surface and 1000 between coats depending on orange peel ..if your having a bad day your going 2 need a more aggressive grit to keep the paint surface flat between coats.. in a reasonable amount of time..

Oh, I didn't see that.

Anyway, how bout Acrylic paints?

What Girt sandpaper would I have to use?

THX !

[Shadowtester]

Ok a little background I have been a automobile painter for almost 20 years now most of that time using Dupont started with lacquer and enamel and finally base coat clear coat acrylic urethanes.

A couple of tricks to help while wet sanding in your water add a little dish soap it will help the paper slide across the surface better and also help keep the paper from clogging as well. Also do not use your hand without using some kind of block or pad unless your experienced or you will end up finger sanding leaving uneven groves a common rookie mistake. On the powder coated surfaces I would recommend starting with a 400 grit wet to sand it smooth prior to the primer powder coat seems to be very hard and the finer grits will take much longer to get it smooth. Next a good quality primer is a must I would recommend a good urethane primer stay away from lacquer as its actually a thermal plastic paint not thermal set and even after it fully dry and cured you can still dissolve it using a solvent. Two to three medium coats of primer then guide coat you can use a flat black lacquer or 3M makes a black powder also which works great. Then block sand the primer smooth using 400 to 600 grit wet then when its sanded smooth switch to 800 to 1000 grit wet and sand lightly to reduce the sanding scratches. Now you can start the base coat application apply 1 to 2 medium coats allowing it to fully flash between coats usually 10 to 15 minutes depending on your drying conditions. After the first couple of coats let it dry again depending on conditions anywhere from 30 minutes to over night and wet sand smooth to remove any dirt nibs or imperfections with 1000 grit or finer and then apply two more light to medium coats or more if its needed for hiding. Now if you were using a metallic or pearl I would not recommend sand prior to the clear coat due to the chance of causing a discoloration or modeling of the basecoat that would be seen though the clearcoat. Next step two to three medium coats of a good quality urethane clear coat allow to dry over night then you can wet sand to remove any dirt nibs or imperfections again if it was very bad after you sand it smooth with 1500 grit or finer you can then apply another coat of clear. If you are able to sand all the imperfections out without removing too much of the clearcoat you can then move to a fine 2000 or 2500 grit wet paper and sand again to make it easier to polish to a smooth scratch free finish. After you polish it should be perfectly smooth and have great depth of shine.

Prior to starting you need to make sure you clean the surface with some sort of grease and wax remover and also do the same after each sanding step prior to the next step in the refinishing process. Also you will want to get some tack rags for painting to tack surface just prior to applying the coating during each step of the process as well however be careful with the tack rag if you apply to much pressure you can cause a transfer of the tacky material to your project. That is especially important prior to the clearcoat step because the residue can cause a discoloration of the basecoat which could require another coat to correct remember the clear will magnify any imperfection in the basecoat. The overall success of the paint job will be in the preparation and details the better you surface prep and clean before each step the better the results.

You can get similar results using aerosol spay cans but you need to apply lighter coats and more coats for each step as the aerosol paint will be more prone to running. And be patient rushing dry times between coats can cause a lot of problems during the process just take your time do not rush haste makes waste. I would suggest that you practice first on something that is not a critical such as the inside of the case or some scrap material you may have to get the feeling of what each step involves its better to make mistakes on a practice item or something that is not as easy to see vs the outside of your masterpiece.

[kinghong1970]

i'm about to paint the internals of my Stacker 832... i think it is all aluminum... and some greenish metal at the HDD cage.

so direct to acid primer first then paint?

just want to reconfirm...

thanks.

[Shadowtester]

On bare metal an etching primer would be best for adhesion just sand the metal with maybe 180-320 grit then use the clean and use the etching primer followed by a standard urethane primer for fill you can do a wet on wet process for the etching primer and the urethane primer let the etching primer dry till its completely flashed 20-30 mins then apply the tack and apply the urethane primer 2-3 medium coats.

[kinghong1970]

hmm...

it seems this task is more complicated than i thought...

1) the parts i am painting are internal parts and hence a smooth flat automotive finish is nice but not necessary... can i get by with a simple primer then paint process?

2) i have purchased this item from my local Home Depot... it says it's for clean bare metal... i dont know if it is etching primer or not... is it good enough to use?


3) i just tested on a slab of metal from and the spray distribution is not so nice... i guess i need to spray light and in multiple coats to avoid "bumps"?

4) i purchased Rustoleum flat black for the internals. any tips/advice before spraying the flat black color?

thanks...

[Shadowtester]

That should work its not as good as using a acid etching primer you might want to test the bond to the bare metal since you already tested the primer on bare metal take some good 2" masking tape I the stickier the better and rub it onto the dried primer so its bonded to the primer very well then rip it off quickly and see if any of the primer come off the bare metal that will give you an idea how well its bonded to the metal. If none of the primer come off you should be good to go also with a spay can primer like that your going to have to do thinner coats so instead of 2 to 3 coats it will be more like 5 to 6 coats and then you should be able to sand the primer smooth with some 400-600 grit sand paper and apply your flat black after 3-4 of coats let it dry well then take some 800-1000 grit wet dry paper and lightly wet sand the surface again to remove any imperfections dry it then clean the area and tack and apply 1-2 final coats let them dry and you should be good. Since your using flat black you can not sand any on the final surface since you can not rub out any sand scratches so you need to do your final sanding prior to applying the last couple of coats.

[kinghong1970]

honestly... 3-4 light coats i can do and am willing to do... i see how this canned stuff really sucks in giving a nice even spread...

but the sanding bit... i am going to be a bit lazy here...

it's the internals that i'm painting and i dont intend to dissassemble and re-assemble all the rivets...

thanks for the advice... learned a lot...

actually thinking of buying a airbrush kit...

[CyberDruid]

Introduction



The largest portion of water based paints is auto paint (paint you use on cars). Water based paints are flexible so they won't crack as easily, but is also very soft and will get scratched just by rubbing it with a cotton cloth.
Water based paints can give a semi glossy surface if delivery in a large amount but teardrops (paint sliding off the surface) will start to become a problem. The solution? Use just enough paint to cover the surface then add clearcoat.




Rubbing Compounds
I normally don't like using rubbing compounds due to it causing loads of micro-scratching, but sometimes you're left with no choice only use rubbing compounds with a high speed polishers and then a orbital polisher. Applying by hand will leave localized scratches which looks like there's a dull patch.
I'm also not goin to reccomend nor not reccomend any brand of rubbing compound or it would most likely end up into a argument.


Under Contruction

I am unaware of any water based automotive paint. I work in the yacht industry where catalyzed urethane is the norm. I have a great friend who has been a pro painter for over 20 years. Water is not in automotive paint. At least not that I know of.

It's in house paint. It's in tempera and in some acrylics. Spray can acrylic (this is a sticky about spray painting right?) is alcohol base--not water base.

To the best of my knowledge (and I have been in the industry since 1983) there is no water based lacquer or urethane.

This glaring mis-statement of fact (which I highlighted in red) makes me seriously doubt the depth or breadth or your knowledge.

Water is the bane of an automotive/yacht painter's existence. I have shot plenty of urethane I can tell you that even too much ambient humidity will effect the finish.

The vehicle in urethanes, enamels and lacquers is always solvent--generally petrochemical based solvent.

Only in acrylic enamels like those used to paint a house will you find water listed as one of the vehicles. Certain cyanoacrylate finishs are "waterborn" and in general if you see the word acrylic on the label you will see water listed as a vehicle.

The thinner for auto paints would be water not lacquer thinned if what you say is correct. And that is not the case. Next time trying cleaning your spray gun with water after shooting a car and see how that works for ya.

Just thought that was worth bringing up.

Another statement I have issues with is your blanket statemnet that rubbing compound causes loads of scratches. All I can wonder is what you were trying to use?

After a million dollar paint job on a yacht guess what the final step is? Buffing with rubbing compound. It comes in a variety of grits and the final grits leave the surface like a mirror. Especially if working with catalyzed urethane color sanding following by buffing followed by clearcoat and/or carnuba is the way to go.

I am a little surprised no one here pointed out these points before me.

I can see Hare and some others here know their way around a paint job. Am I wrong?

[Shadowtester]

honestly... 3-4 light coats i can do and am willing to do... i see how this canned stuff really sucks in giving a nice even spread...

but the sanding bit... i am going to be a bit lazy here...

it's the internals that i'm painting and i dont intend to dissassemble and re-assemble all the rivets...

thanks for the advice... learned a lot...

actually thinking of buying a airbrush kit...

You might be better off buying a small paint gun setup in the Auto Body trade we usually call them dash guns they are basically down sized versions of a standard paint gun used for getting into tight space limited locations where you do not have to cover a large area and they usually have less over spray as well. If you want to do custom graphics an air bush would be better for custom artwork such as flames pictures and such.

[Shadowtester]

I am unaware of any water based automotive paint. I work in the yacht industry where catalyzed urethane is the norm. I have a great friend who has been a pro painter for over 20 years. Water is not in automotive paint. At least not that I know of.

It's in house paint. It's in tempera and in some acrylics. Spray can acrylic (this is a sticky about spray painting right?) is alcohol base--not water base.

To the best of my knowledge (and I have been in the industry since 1983) there is no water based lacquer or urethane.

This glaring mis-statement of fact (which I highlighted in red) makes me seriously doubt the depth or breadth or your knowledge.

Water is the bane of an automotive/yacht painter's existence. I have shot plenty of urethane I can tell you that even too much ambient humidity will effect the finish.

The vehicle in urethanes, enamels and lacquers is always solvent--generally petrochemical based solvent.

Only in acrylic enamels like those used to paint a house will you find water listed as one of the vehicles. Certain cyanoacrylate finishs are "waterborn" and in general if you see the word acrylic on the label you will see water listed as a vehicle.

The thinner for auto paints would be water not lacquer thinned if what you say is correct. And that is not the case. Next time trying cleaning your spray gun with water after shooting a car and see how that works for ya.

Just thought that was worth bringing up.

Another statement I have issues with is your blanket statemnet that rubbing compound causes loads of scratches. All I can wonder is what you were trying to use?

After a million dollar paint job on a yacht guess what the final step is? Buffing with rubbing compound. It comes in a variety of grits and the final grits leave the surface like a mirror. Especially if working with catalyzed urethane color sanding following by buffing followed by clearcoat and/or carnuba is the way to go.

I am a little surprised no one here pointed out these points before me.

I can see Hare and some others here know their way around a paint job. Am I wrong?

Actually there is quite a bit of water based automotive paints especially in the oem production and also in VOC regulated areas such as California. But unless your in a VOC regulated area water based re-finisher automotive paints are pretty rare and even in all the the strictest VOC regulated areas there are other alternatives to water based coating there are some very low VOC coating are available which will meet most VOC regulations.

[hare]

ok, it's completed , painted , assembled and running . 3.75 @1700 fsb

[jay_lee300]

Sorry if this is the wrong thread but ive been looking all over the internet for forums, sites, pictures of uv paint being used on pc cases, ive bought some ac ryan uv paint ive seen it being used on the graphics card pcd around the edges and places, 5 30ml bottles, i have a cm stacker i dont intend to do all over the case just some kind of designs inside and on some of the pci cards and gpu if it can be used on them, anyone ever done this before or know of any sites or furums i could get some help from, thanks in advance :-)

[disruptfam]

hey hare

i also have a antec 900 and want to do exactly the same thing as you can you let me know how you did and what i need to buy to get the same result as you cheers mate...

[hare]

I am unaware of any water based automotive paint. I work in the yacht industry where catalyzed urethane is the norm. I have a great friend who has been a pro painter for over 20 years. Water is not in automotive paint. At least not that I know of.

It's in house paint. It's in tempera and in some acrylics. Spray can acrylic (this is a sticky about spray painting right?) is alcohol base--not water base.

To the best of my knowledge (and I have been in the industry since 1983) there is no water based lacquer or urethane.

This glaring mis-statement of fact (which I highlighted in red) makes me seriously doubt the depth or breadth or your knowledge.

Water is the bane of an automotive/yacht painter's existence. I have shot plenty of urethane I can tell you that even too much ambient humidity will effect the finish.

The vehicle in urethanes, enamels and lacquers is always solvent--generally petrochemical based solvent.

Only in acrylic enamels like those used to paint a house will you find water listed as one of the vehicles. Certain cyanoacrylate finishs are "waterborn" and in general if you see the word acrylic on the label you will see water listed as a vehicle.

The thinner for auto paints would be water not lacquer thinned if what you say is correct. And that is not the case. Next time trying cleaning your spray gun with water after shooting a car and see how that works for ya.

Just thought that was worth bringing up.

Another statement I have issues with is your blanket statemnet that rubbing compound causes loads of scratches. All I can wonder is what you were trying to use?

After a million dollar paint job on a yacht guess what the final step is? Buffing with rubbing compound. It comes in a variety of grits and the final grits leave the surface like a mirror. Especially if working with catalyzed urethane color sanding following by buffing followed by clearcoat and/or carnuba is the way to go.

I am a little surprised no one here pointed out these points before me.

I can see Hare and some others here know their way around a paint job. Am I wrong?

*LOL* yeah, I'll clean my devilbiss clear coat gun with some good ol H2O *LOLOLO*
NOT !!!
However see : www.autoaircolors.com water based auto enamel. yeah, it's here