Official Desktop Penryn Discussion Thread

[Scimitar]

Funny picture. I take it this is 4 Yorkfield ES chips and a 1,000 Yuan.

[guess2098]

Funny picture. I take it this is 4 Yorkfield ES chips and a 1,000 Yuan.

sorry, it is 2 wolfdale and 2 yorkfield!

[flippin_waffles]

Here's something that caught my eye from Hans de Vries over on Aces.

Johan wrote:

Interesting, seems more likely than HPEC's Square root theory to explain this :-)

There are two benchmarks which are specially Intel sponsored for the
occasion. DIVX and Valve's Half Life "Lost Coast" demo. These are the
two missing in HKEPC's 6400+/Conroe compare but included in the
Conroe/Penryn article:

http://www.hkepc.com/bbs/hwdb.php?ti...400&rid=842214
http://www.hkepc.com/bbs/hwdb.php?ti...iew&rid=837360

The Divx results come from the sum_of_absolute_differences instruction
for motion detection. This function should have been in the first MMX
instruction set in 1995 really. Now, in 2007, motion detection belongs in
the GPU in my opinion.....

As far as Half Life-2 is concerned: From all possibilities I assume that a
Last Coast set-size fit in the larger Penryn cache is mostly responsible
for the unusual improvement. I don't buy the shuffle arguments at all.

From extreme tech:
http://www.extremetech.com/article2/...2115086,00.asp

Half-Life 2: Lost Coast is a tech demo from Valve Software that's
actually a playable mini-game. A timedemo was recorded by Intel—
it's an actual gameplay recording rather than the canned graphics
performance test.

So, this allows the benchmarker, Intel in this case, to select a particular
recording in which the set-size/cache-fit gives a more than average
improvement going from Conroe to Penryn because it doesn't fit in 4MB
but does so in 6MB. It's just a question of playing the Last Coast demo
until you find the right scenes to record. Simple enough.


Regards, Hans

http://aceshardware.freeforums.org/v...r=asc&start=30


and

DavidC1 wrote:

Quote:
As far as Half Life-2 is concerned: From all possibilities I assume that a
Last Coast set-size fit in the larger Penryn cache is mostly responsible
for the unusual improvement. I don't buy the shuffle arguments at all.

Half Life 2: Lost Coast benchmark test system provided by Intel for the reviewers got 18.9% performance increase with 9.1% higher clock speed in favor of Penryn compared to Conroe. Despite a possible optimization that Intel MIGHT have done.

Half Life 2 benchmark tested by HKEPC showed that at equal configurations(same clock, same FSB), Penryn based core was 31% faster.

Your theory might have made more sense if HKEPC benchmark gained less, but it came out the opposite way.

You've got the wrong numbers (From the 3Dmarc06 test on the same page?)

The right numbers only confirm the hypothesis:

1.000 ==> 1.311 _____ HKEPC: (2,33 GHz/1.333 GHz Conroe DC==> 2,33 GHz/1.333 GHz Penryn DC)
1.000 ==> 1.359 _____ Intel:__ (2.93GHz/1.066GHz Conroe QC ==> 3.33 GHz/1.333 GHz Penryn DC)
1.000 ==> 1.391 _____ Intel:__ (2.93GHz/1.066GHz Conroe QC ==> 3.33 GHz/1.333 GHz Penryn QC)

http://www.hkepc.com/bbs/hwdb.php?ti...iew&rid=837360
http://www.extremetech.com/article2/...2115086,00.asp

Comparing the first with the last we see only a 6% improvement (1.391/ 1.311)
while the clockspeed improvement in the last case is almost 14% for the
CPU and 25% for the FSB so it's clear that the large improvement did not
come from a higher bandwidth or a faster CPU (higher frequency or faster
instructions) But way more likely from the larger cache.

The only difference between the latter two cases is an extra Die in the
package, QC vs DC, Still the relative improvement goes up from 3.5%
to 6%. Why would that be? Well how about having a whole 6MB L2 cache
available for the application while the OS mainly uses the 6MB on the
other die?

So by specifically recording the favorable scenes from the Lost Coast
demo where you find a large improvement (due to a scene size which
then must lay somewhere between 4MB and 6MB) you can create a
benchmark which shows a more than average improvement.


Regards, Hans.

http://aceshardware.freeforums.org/v...r=asc&start=45



Makes alot of sense. Is this possible?

[informal]

Yes it is.And Hans is a very respectable guy in MPU design analysis.

[Jacky]

all games seem to have gains above average (at least at low resolutions), now let's find some RL workload that does too...

hans is a very respectable guy, but always pro AMD (which I just wanted to mention ). anyway he doesn't mention the theory, lost coast being very divider-heavy, which someone brought up on the forums recently.

don't forget: presenting selective information is called marketing, that's the same as AMD's spec_rate BS, nothing unusual.

the only revolutionary thing about penryn may be its power consumption/temperature, but we need more tests to confirm this... (high-k + metal gates may be as great an invention as intel touts them to be)

edit:
a short pod cast about high k and metal gates, nothing new, but great for those who don't like to read much.
"Rob Willoner, a technology analyst at Intel, explains how smaller and more energy-efficient transistors are resulting in faster and more powerful CPUs."

[Theli]

And the Wolfdale just reached 550 MHz * 7 = 3.85 GHz. source

[Donnie27]

all games seem to have gains above average (at least at low resolutions), now let's find some RL workload that does too...

hans is a very respectable guy, but always pro AMD (which I just wanted to mention ). anyway he doesn't mention the theory, lost coast being very divider-heavy, which someone brought up on the forums recently.

don't forget: presenting selective information is called marketing, that's the same as AMD's spec_rate BS, nothing unusual.

the only revolutionary thing about penryn may be its power consumption/temperature, but we need more tests to confirm this... (high-k + metal gates may be as great an invention as intel touts them to be)

edit:
a short pod cast about high k and metal gates, nothing new, but great for those who don't like to read much.
"Rob Willoner, a technology analyst at Intel, explains how smaller and more energy-efficient transistors are resulting in faster and more powerful CPUs."

True! On the first part, not so true on the rest. Since Core 2 Duo didn't have any Dents in its Armor, All Intel had to do was take out a few kinks and shine the Armor up some. Penryn was just an Adjustment. Sort of like helping the fastest man in the world shave .11 off of his fastest time in the world. Even Nehalem would only be .3 in that case. Meanwhile, the Competition hasn't broke 9 secs yet.

Now, if I wasn't in the middle of getting the wife a Car and some needed home repairs, I'd be all over Quad Core Penryn as soon as it hit the market.

[Shintai]

LOL, did Hans invest in AMD stocks?

Same speed and such. Still vast improvements way beyond the caches abilities.

[informal]

LOL, did Hans invest in AMD stocks?

Same speed and such. Still vast improvements way beyond the caches abilities.

Yeah i am sure ,as others certainly are,that you know way more about MPUs and such than poor Hans.

[Shintai]

Yeah i am sure ,as others certainly are,that you know way more about MPUs and such than poor Hans.

We know benches, and unless Intel sponsored them all its looking quite well. Just like C2D did.

It was a rather desperate comment with the MMX association aswell.

Lets not hope he will say anything bad about K10, then you gonna turn on a plate....

[terrace215]

Here's something that caught my eye from Hans de Vries over on Aces.



http://aceshardware.freeforums.org/v...r=asc&start=30


and



http://aceshardware.freeforums.org/v...r=asc&start=45



Makes alot of sense. Is this possible?

Hans became a giant AMD fanboy at some point in the last 2 years, and now everything he writes is propaganda.

[Donnie27]

Hans became a giant AMD fanboy at some point in the last 2 years, and now everything he writes is propaganda.

Add Kyle and [H] while you're at it LOL!

[alpha0ne]

I wish all this childish fanboy crap would just 'kin STOP

[Zytek_Fan]

Add Kyle and [H] while you're at it LOL!

Can we stop the fanboy name calling now and have a serious discussion of Penryn?

[Donnie27]

Can we stop the fanboy name calling now and have a serious discussion of Penryn?

Absolute BS on your part. Folks can't just give links if those links can't be trusted. The Problem with getting good Penryn News/Info is, can what you're reading be trusted? Example; Sure, but your buddy and you wouldn't say $hit if folks were calling these Guys Intel Fanboys LOL!

So if you really want to talk about Penryn, by all means do so?

[informal]

Zytek_Fan ,never mind Donnie,he does it all the time,nothing new there.Although you made a good proposition about continuing the serious discussion about Penryn,we can't have that since now the main theme is not the Penryn but it sure is Hans,Kyle and others,who no doubt about it, are all amd paid pumpers(sarcasm) and they all work against intel in some grand scheme(sarcasm).
And we have some new MPU design geniuses here(Shintai) who are ready to give some lessons to poor Hans about modern x86 processors.

[Shintai]

Thats funny coming from you Informal...as a die hard AMD fan in an Intel thread.

Again..we got benchmarks

[mstp2009]

Zytek_Fan ,never mind Donnie,he does it all the time,nothing new there.Although you made a good proposition about continuing the serious discussion about Penryn,we can't have that since now the main theme is not the Penryn but it sure is Hans,Kyle and others,who no doubt about it, are all amd paid pumpers(sarcasm) and they all work against intel in some grand scheme(sarcasm).
And we have some new MPU design geniuses here(Shintai) who are ready to give some lessons to poor Hans about modern x86 processors.

It's ironic how you sit here and ridicule others, but in this and the K10 thread that was closed we never saw you actually make any substantial contribution of intellectual merit.

If it looks like a . . .

[Zytek_Fan]

Thats funny coming from you Informal...as a die hard AMD fan in an Intel thread.

Again..we got benchmarks

Again Intel PR FTW!

[informal]

It's ironic how you sit here and ridicule others, but in this and the K10 thread that was closed we never saw you actually make any substantial contribution of intellectual merit.

If it looks like a . . .

Right...If you think that starting some of the most important news threads about K10 here on XS is no contribution than OK.
We all know how much you contrubuted here

[mstp2009]

Right...If you think that starting some of the most important news threads about K10 here on XS is no contribution than OK.
We all know how much you contrubuted here

Started WHAT threads? At the VERY best you cut and paste stuff (most from the FUD and INQ - LOL).

Your comments might be semi-insightful if they weren't just dripping with anti-intel propaganda. It makes EVERY SINGLE THING YOU SAY just sound like, well . . . A TROLL.

[informal]

As we can all see,you contributed extremely well to this penryn thread.You identified successfully a couple of amd fans(lol) and derailed it well.Now the topic is not penryn any more,what a surprise
Great contribution

[mstp2009]

As we can all see,you contributed extremely well to this penryn thread.You identified successfully a couple of amd fans(lol) and derailed it well.Now the topic is not penryn any more,what a surprise
Great contribution

Still waiting for you to point out your stellar contributions to the forum.

But like a good fanboi, you dodge the subject and point fingers instead of answering questions.

[Movieman]

Puts on Mod hat:
Gentlemen: Please play nice together..Please?
Takes off mod hat:

The only thing I've seen so far that I beleive is what I saw with my own eyes when running Cinebench10.
Penryn shows app 9% improvement over C2D archeticture at the same clocks.
Look in the Cinebench 10 thread and you'll see what I mean.
Now thats not saying that Penryn is a 9% improvement overall, just in that benchmark. It does say that it's a fair assumption at this point that penryn will be better and in the 5-15% range..

Oh,Zytek_Fan, loved that 'Fanboy Cannon" pic!
Cracked me up!

[Brother Esau]

Puts on Mod hat:
Gentlemen: Please play nice together..Please?
Takes off mod hat:

The only thing I've seen so far that I beleive is what I saw with my own eyes when running Cinebench10.
Penryn shows app 9% improvement over C2D archeticture at the same clocks.
Look in the Cinebench 10 thread and you'll see what I mean.
Now thats not saying that Penryn is a 9% improvement overall, just in that benchmark. It does say that it's a fair assumption at this point that penryn will be better and in the 5-15% range..

Oh,Zytek_Fan, loved that 'Fanboy Cannon" pic!
Cracked me up!

Pay attention guys that a true Gentleman in action!