Apogee GTX custom plexi top

[rogueagent6]

You guys seriously think that I am going to allow anyone to rip-off my design?

Ok, make it a square block of copper or derlin then... I couldn't give a rat's a$$ what it looks like. The farther away from that alu, I don't care how much plating it's got on it, the better.

[nikhsub1]

All Copper GTX ?
If we made it, I'd say your'e probably looking at a $100 water-block.

As I've said before, so what? $80, $100 WTF is the difference? I won't use the GTX as long as it uses aluminum, I don't care how good it performs. I know there are others that feel the same way. As much as you would like to change that Gabe, it will never happen.

[rogueagent6]

As I've said before, so what? $80, $100 WTF is the difference? I won't use the GTX as long as it uses aluminum, I don't care how good it performs. I know there are others that feel the same way. As much as you would like to change that Gabe, it will never happen.

Yep, exactly why I got the FuZion and not the GTX, and exactly why I won't touch a GTX with an aluminum top.

[nikhsub1]

Furthermore, I bet if you made a SILVER base people would buy those too. Why? Because of it's natural biocide properties. If you were to do that, aluminum would for sure be out of the question. I know, call me crazy.

[ranker]

As I've said before, so what? $80, $100 WTF is the difference? I won't use the GTX as long as it uses aluminum, I don't care how good it performs. I know there are others that feel the same way. As much as you would like to change that Gabe, it will never happen.

I agree up to a certain level. Once you break that $50-60 price point for a given block, you're no longer in mainstream territory. With the GTX roughly street priced at $75-80, there's won't be much flinching if you increase the price to $99.99 since we're now in the "Enthusiast/Hardcore" territory. At plateau, why not replace the components with something, we prefer. I'm not sure what the purpose of the Alu top was. But I prefer if manufacturers stayed away from any sort activism as Nihksub1 is implying and give the consumers what they want, an all copper, non alu product.

If you're not going to provide us with that, why not let someone else produce an aftermarket top to fulfill our needs. I've bought every practically every Swiftech product for the past 3 years. However, the lack of an all-copper version is disappointing. Of all companies, Aqua Computer even released all copper top replacements for their Cuplex XT DI.

I don't see why you didn't offer it in the first place, or even possibly threaten someone who would improve your design. Especially when you've already taken my $80 for the GTX I've purchased, but refuse to use in my main system out of principle.

[_G_]

Furthermore, I bet if you made a SILVER base people would buy those too. Why? Because of it's natural biocide properties. If you were to do that, aluminum would for sure be out of the question. I know, call me crazy.

my guess is that silver is too hard(hardness) to manufature using the same manufacturing process as copper.

[nikhsub1]

my guess is that silver is too hard(hardness) to manufature using the same manufacturing process as copper.

Silver is (IIRC) softer than copper, at least i think.

[rogueagent6]

Furthermore, I bet if you made a SILVER base people would buy those too. Why? Because of it's natural biocide properties. If you were to do that, aluminum would for sure be out of the question. I know, call me crazy.

I would buy one.

[gabe]

Just the fact that the person posting is showing an e-mail address of an enterprise can get him in considerable civil trouble. If the fabrication was for his own use, then why show a commercial e-mail address.

He's not from China, where the govt. doesn't give a crap

If I were Gabe, I would shut this guy down... like right now.

Why spend 10 or $20k in attorney's fees? All I have to do is make copper tops for the German market and give them away so that he won't sell ONE PIECE!

I hope this fellow reads this: don't with me. Make your own blocks, enjoy life and stay healthy.

[_G_]

Silver is (IIRC) softer than copper, at least i think.

whops i didnt factor in how silver was annealed after it was formed into a finished product.

anyway a copper top would have no benefit over brass unless you where dumping heat to it somehow (hmmm heatpipes from NB)

[gabe]

I agree up to a certain level. Once you break that $50-60 price point for a given block, you're no longer in mainstream territory. With the GTX roughly street priced at $75-80, there's won't be much flinching if you increase the price to $99.99 since we're now in the "Enthusiast/Hardcore" territory. At plateau, why not replace the components with something, we prefer. I'm not sure what the purpose of the Alu top was. But I prefer if manufacturers stayed away from any sort activism as Nihksub1 is implying and give the consumers what they want, an all copper, non alu product.

If you're not going to provide us with that, why not let someone else produce an aftermarket top to fulfill our needs. I've bought every practically every Swiftech product for the past 3 years. However, the lack of an all-copper version is disappointing. Of all companies, Aqua Computer even released all copper top replacements for their Cuplex XT DI.

I don't see why you didn't offer it in the first place, or even possibly threaten someone who would improve your design. Especially when you've already taken my $80 for the GTX I've purchased, but refuse to use in my main system out of principle.

Maybe you can't see my point because you don't spend countless hours designing things. If you did, you would think differently.

I designed this, and I have every right to control it.

Like I said, no one stops them from making their own design. It's just too G*d D*mn easy to copy someone else's design. This attitude is despicable.

[Jimmer411]

Maybe you can't see my point because you don't spend countless hours designing things. If you did, you would think differently.

I designed this, and I have every right to control it.

Like I said, no one stops them from making their own design. It's just too G*d D*mn easy to copy someone else's design. This attitude is despicable.

I agree with you 100%



In my eyes if the guy wants to make 1 just for himself thats fine, but to distribute and/or market it is just complete bullsh*t.

[rogueagent6]

Maybe you can't see my point because you don't spend countless hours designing things. If you did, you would think differently.

I designed this, and I have every right to control it.

Like I said, no one stops them from making their own design. It's just too G*d D*mn easy to copy someone else's design. This attitude is despicable.

I really don't think they are arguing against your right to control it Gabe, rather that it wouldn't have mattered if the block was $100. Many people don't want aluminum in their loop, myself included.

If this guy intends selling this for profit, then by all means, go after him.

But, had you made the top out of something other than aluminum, we probably wouldn't be having this discussion right now.

[Mekrel]

You guys seriously think that I am going to allow anyone to rip-off my design?

Well I'm glad you posted as I was going to email you before even starting to see what your view on the subject was.

I thought you may have taken this stance, but then argued with myself as to why you would mind us designing and fabricating a top for your wonderful market leading block.

After all, the consumer would still have to buy the GTX (which at the end of the day - matters to you to a certain extent) and then the top separate and as you are aware, there are users who will not buy the block as it currently is due to the aluminum. Personally, I have bought it but there are users who won't no matter what their reason. (Trying to not let this thread turn into an aluminum hate fest - just stating the fact that the reason exists as to why users won't buy it).

Obviously Tom already sells the GTX, and could possibly sell more by giving users the choice?

Or what about the top not resembling the current top design apart from barb spacing and the same internal to fit around the pins?

Look forward to your response Gabe

[Grinch]

Maybe you can't see my point because you don't spend countless hours designing things. If you did, you would think differently.

I designed this, and I have every right to control it.

Like I said, no one stops them from making their own design. It's just too G*d D*mn easy to copy someone else's design. This attitude is despicable.

agree 100%

[generics_user]

so the problem is that this guy ripped off your design (the looks) , i agree with youthat this isn't ok, but what if he made it a simple copper square without those "design fins", still a ripoff then? it would be a custom top not following the swiftech designs so i don't see a problem in it (or do you???)

[Mekrel]

so the problem is that this guy ripped off your design (the looks) , i agree with youthat this isn't ok, but what if he made it a simple copper square without those "design fins", still a ripoff then? it would be a custom top not following the swiftech designs so i don't see a problem in it (or do you???)

I think it's ok for that guy because he stated in the thread that they were a one off for personal use (unless hes changed his mind since I last read the thread) and he obviously enjoys the look of the original top.

[gabe]

I really don't think they are arguing against your right to control it Gabe, rather that it wouldn't have mattered if the block was $100. Many people don't want aluminum in their loop, myself included.

If this guy intends selling this for profit, then by all means, go after him.

But, had you made the top out of something other than aluminum, we probably wouldn't be having this discussion right now.

True enough, but this remains a matter of principle. You don't hear me objecting to people buying Danny's blocks do you? Principles are the fabric of our Society. They exist for a reason.

If he made a one-off, I could not care less. If he made a big square top, I couldn't care less.

[kaiden]

i wish gabe would release an all copper top for the GTX, i mean if these doods can do it, it cant be that hard, and it looks/sounds like there is a market for it, so why not?

[Mekrel]

i wish gabe would release an all copper top for the GTX, i mean if these doods can do it, it cant be that hard, and it looks/sounds like there is a market for it, so why not?

Gabe has already stated his concern is about cost of such a block (please correct me if wrong) and even though users on Xtremesystems would buy them, I suppose they're not a true representation of the rest of the market.

[ranker]

Gabe has already stated his concern is about cost of such a block (please correct me if wrong) and even though users on Xtremesystems would buy them, I suppose they're not a true representation of the rest of the market.

What bugs me is that Swiftech already has my money for having purchased a GTX already and yet finds an issue with someone who's created a top that is an accessory to it.

Is the issue with the design/look of the top itself, or simply the fact that it's something different that other than the top that originally came with the block? If it's the latter reason, how would this be any different than us purchasing a DDC pump and then adding an aftermarket top to it. Just like in that case, Laing already has our money so I don't see why they'd find any issue with it.

All I can say is take the discussion about the top as what we enthusiasts would like to see or be offered in future product revisions/releases.

[Mekrel]

What bugs me is that Swiftech already has my money for having purchased a GTX already and yet finds an issue with someone who's created a top that is an accessory to it.

Is the issue with the design/look of the top itself, or simply the fact that it's something different that other than the top that originally came with the block? If it's the latter reason, how would this be any different than us purchasing a DDC pump and then adding an aftermarket top to it. Just like in that case, Laing already has our money so I don't see why they'd find any issue with it.

All I can say is take the discussion about the top as what we enthusiasts would like to see or be offered in future product revisions/releases.

I'm guessing it's the design, the fin and slope design that Gabe does not want replicating - but I'm not sure which is why I've asked above, but it maybe better to email in private

I was going to use the same analogy myself with the DDC pumps and tops, but there are differences. The DDC pumps + tops look different obviously and they improve performance and barb size.

The top I want to design for Tom to put out, will just allow those who are uncomfortable with Aluminum to use what is a very good block. I would like to keep as close to the design of the stock top just because I would like the product to keep it's ID and also the top fin idea looks great.

However if Gabe doesn't want that (which is the issue) then I completely respect that, my intentions were never to "rip" the design because it's easy and neither would I make any profit off it (what ever I do for Tom is free, because I share the same enthusiasm as Tom for people to use stuff that you've personally designed, such as the TC Radgrills which are hopefully being picked up tomorrow).

[Kayin]

I understand the issues in IP with adaptations of others' products. Just how far do you change it before it becomes yours? My own watercooling part endeavors have stalled while I look at what can be done without violating others' patents.

At the same time, I'm watching and waiting to see how this plays out, as I have a material I can easily use that would still allow a bowed top (Try bouncing one of my reservoirs off a patio, or driving over it-only the latter provided any visible damage) but it has to be molded, not CNCed at this point, and I'm just not that good. My stance is that I can research building a top like that, or I can follow my own ideas and make super-high end blocks a batch at a time that I believe people will want to use. This being Xtreme, I'm doing the latter, even thouugh I don't know that I'll sell a one. Yes, I'm nobody, as they say, but it takes nothing for a large corporation to ruin a nobody.

Gabe, if I thought it wasn't disrespectful, I would pursue it, but honestly, it's as you said. This is your baby. Just like my reservoirs and my waterblock designs are mine. In your situation, I don't know how I would feel, though my normal attitude in life is to see what people like and adapt. (Hence why I've not released anything but preliminary work-because I want to be sure my target audience wants it...)

Atthe end of the day, intellectual property is a ly thing. I am a staunch supporter of GPL and the user's rights, and my work would most likely be open to rework (though not reselling) so I could learn more from my audience. Others (and this is not a bad thing) would rather keep a design closed and stay a market player. I do not desire the place of Swiftech, so I'm content with my place, but I understand and respect the position of Gabe. In fact, it's probably that attitude that keeps his business under him.

[ranker]

Still, Swiftech has the CAD program and the tools already. What would it really take to offer a plexi and/or copper top for all blocks?

Agreed. This is one case where I wouldn't mind being nickled and dimed to get something I prefer. Plenty of other manufacturers are offering replacement tops, such as EK and AC.

http://www.sharkacomputers.com/waterblockscpu.html
http://www.performance-pcs.com/catal...ain_page=index

[whoodiestyle]

Still, Swiftech has the CAD program and the tools already. What would it really take to offer a plexi and/or copper top for all blocks?

some company to cut them out and?