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Thread: Some new test equipment

  1. #1
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    Some new test equipment

    Yesterday I took delivery of:

    a) An Anemometer
    b) A decent-quality sound-level meter
    c) A digital tachometer

    I also have a positive displacement nutating low-pressure-drop flow-rate sensor capable of measuring flow-rates to 0.01LPM accuracy (when coupled with the digital tachometer - 1RPM = 0.01LPM).

    I also have a fanless 12v PSU, and with all of the above I intend to construct a fan noise & air-flow testing station.

    I'm not so interested in free-air fan noise levels, because it means nothing. Fan noise does get lower when under load/pressure. I'll measure the free-air noise and flow levels, just for purposes of comparison/validation sake.

    What I'm really interested in is air-flow for noise, when mounted on a radiator. Also will be measuring fan RPM where possible (using the digital tachometer again).

    Will also compare shrouded, unshrouded, suck, and blow air-flows.

    Was just messing with the equipment a bit last night, putting a Yate-Loon on a PA120.1 radiator with a shroud, in suck or blow arrangement. I was able to position the anemometer on the other side of the radiator to get an idea of the evenness of the air-flow through the radiator. Used the tachometer to measure the fan speeds, and the noise meter the fan noise levels. I haven't calibrated the fan noise levels yet to any base reference point, so I won't report the absolute values I got, just the relative values.

    Free-air: +0dBA noise, 1480rpm speed
    Shroud Suck: -2.7dBA noise (i.e. quieter), 1350rpm speed
    Shroud Blow: -3.0dBA noise (i.e. quieter), 1460rpm speed

    I found the noise level differences, and the fan speed differences to be quite intriguing. If the fan is spinning faster, it's pushing more air-flow in the blow-mode.

    However, using the anemometer on the other side found that with the shroud, in blow mode, the air coming out the edges of the radiator had about an 80% higher velocity that the air coming out the dead-center. In suck mode, the overall air-velocity appeared lower (will need to measure properly later on full-testbed), but it was more even, with only about a 25% variation between the edges (higher) and the dead-center (lower).

    So yeah - this throws a cloud over the general suck/blow debate. The fan appears to like to blow much better than to suck, but the air-flow is less even, even though it's of a higher velocity. The fan is also quieter in blow-mode.

    It would appear (without further testing) that putting a fan into blow-mode on a radiator with a really deep shroud (60cm) to straighten out the air-flow would be the best way to go, but that's not terribly practical.

    It will be interesing to run some tests with varying shroud depths to determine what gives us the best approximation at an even air-flow through a radiator in blow-mode. The current shroud I'm using is a custom job that I made up, that's 6cm deep. I suspect that differing fan shroud depths may favor suck/blow in different amounts.

    I then want to apply the guidelines gathered as a result of these tests to measuring actual radiator performance, NOT JUST airflow vs noise, but actual cooling performance with a 200W heat-load. Given that different fans will have different air-spread characteristics, and so create different air-flow speeds through different regions of the radiator, I don't think it's going to be as cut and dried as a "dry run" test of noise vs air-flow. It's going to be noise when mounted vs air-flow vs air-flow characteristics.

    This is going to be a long-term effort. I've probably got around 3-4 months to do all this in before my body heals enough to the point that motorbikes and good weather will start distracting me again. So let's see what I can do in that time.

    No promises, but that's what's on the cards.

  2. #2
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    Very interesting results so far. Appreciate the effort. 6 cm shrouds, external systems are becoming more and more attractive

  3. #3
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    Its always a good day when Stew gets some new toys. Hope you enjoy them!



    On a side note; according to Kim Cattrall its better to suck than blow. She even goes so far as to say blowing can cause serious physical injuries!

  4. #4
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    Got any plans to do testing on a thermochill vs something like the swiftech mcr? I've been wanting to know the noise significance between the two, especially at 5-8v.

    It's a very nice topic to do reasearch on. I'm looking forward to results.

  5. #5
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    It'll be good to get some science behind all of this. Anecdotal evidence I've heard says suck is quieter, but maybe that's just the placebo effect.

    And let the suggestive jokes commence!

    Quote Originally Posted by Spaceballs
    "What's happening!?"

    "I don't know, sir! She suddenly switched from 'suck' to 'blow'!"

  6. #6
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    this is great stuff! make a rad!
    For the record I am not sick, nor am I a gamer, nor am I a sick gamer. That name just sounds really cool to me but dont put me under that stereotype at all.

    nevermind... addicted to COD4 and Free Online Games baby!

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by migueld View Post
    Got any plans to do testing on a thermochill vs something like the swiftech mcr? I've been wanting to know the noise significance between the two, especially at 5-8v.

    It's a very nice topic to do reasearch on. I'm looking forward to results.
    Yes - I have an MCR120-QP here as well.

    I'm not too sure about me posting up results though. While I don't work for Thermochill, nor have I ever received any money from them, it's no secret that I designed the PA series radiators. While I'm happy to point at independently conducted testing and make comments about performance differences seen from those results, people would naturally question my impartiality on the matter, justified or not.

    What to do? I'll be measuring it anyway - but whether I make the results public is another matter. I'd hate to do all the work to find out the results, only to have some yob come along and call it biased, and therefore invalid.

  8. #8
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    BTW - the (12cm) fans I have here:

    Yate Loon D12SL-12 (curved blades)
    Yate Loon D12SL-12 (straight blades)
    Tricod Science SPDL1225S (a Y-L D12SL-12 straight-blade clone - available in Australia - quieter though - 3-pin connector only)
    Noiseblocker SX-1 (Rev 1 though)
    Xinruilian RDL1225S
    AcoustiFan Dustproof "Ultra Quiet Fan" AFDP-12025
    Panaflo FBA1212GH
    Panaflo FBA1212GL
    Delta TFB1212GHE
    EBM/Papst 4312L

    I also have some Gigabyte F121225SL fans, that came with one of my cases.

    Anyone want to suggest me some more (good) fans? If you could provide a purchase link, that'd be great.
    Last edited by Cathar; 07-03-2007 at 09:29 PM.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cathar View Post
    BTW - the (12cm) fans I have here:

    Yate Loon D12SL-12 (curved blades)
    Yate Loon D12SL-12 (straight blades)
    Tricod Science SPDL1225S (a Y-L D12SL-12 straight-blade clone - available in Australia - quieter though - 3-pin connector only)
    Noiseblocker SX-1 (Rev 1 though)
    Xinruilian RDL1225S
    AcoustiFan Dustproof "Ultra Quiet Fan" AFDP-12025
    Panaflo FBA1212GH
    Panaflo FBA1212GL
    Delta TFB1212GHE
    EBM/Papst 4312L

    I also have some Gigabyte F121225SL fans, that came with one of my cases.

    Anyone want to suggest me some more (good) fans? If you could provide a purchase link, that'd be great.
    Sharkoon Golfball 2000's as per Vapors testing and Sansace Denki's from Petra's.
    MM Extended U2-UFO CYO (Duality front, Standard back, Horizontal Mobo brace) Anodized Black || eVGA X58 || Intel i7 920 || 6 GB Corsair Dominator PC3-12800|| eVGA 295GTX || Asus Xonar Essence STX || VisionTek 650 TV Tuner || 1 300GB WD Velociraptor || 1TB WD's Black Ed. || LG 22X DVD-Writer || Lite-On 20x DVD-Writer || Corsair CMPSU-1000HX PSU

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  10. #10
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    San Ace 109R1212H1011 and Scythe S-Flex E,F (1200,1600RPM) are my new favorites

    If you can get them down under, go for it.

    Can't wait for your results.

    (and about the Thermochill issue....might as well post results, or post them as "anonymous radiator A" or something like that)

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by ranker View Post
    Sharkoon Golfball 2000's as per Vapors testing and Sansace Denki's from Petra's.
    Anyone who will ship to Australia for those?

  12. #12
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    Great!! looking forward to it

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cathar View Post
    Anyone who will ship to Australia for those?
    I don't even know where to get them in the USA any longer...

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vapor View Post
    I don't even know where to get them in the USA any longer...
    I can find the Golfball 2000's in the UK for around US$10 each at a number of stores, but no-one ships internationally.

    Here's what I have access to locally. Don't mind the prices. Sales tax is included the prices, and it's in Australian dollars, and we get to enjoy at least a 20-40% markup penalty for not living in the USA.

    PC Case Gear 12cm fans
    Scorptec Case fans
    LowNoisePC 12cm fans

  15. #15
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    good to see those tricods
    they are bloody quiet........wonder if effective still.....keenly awaiting your findings here
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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cathar View Post
    I can find the Golfball 2000's in the UK for around US$10 each at a number of stores, but no-one ships internationally.

    Here's what I have access to locally. Don't mind the prices. Sales tax is included the prices, and it's in Australian dollars, and we get to enjoy at least a 20-40% markup penalty for not living in the USA.

    PC Case Gear 12cm fans
    Scorptec Case fans
    LowNoisePC 12cm fans
    http://www.pccasegear.com.au/prod4570.htm (Coolermaster that nihksub1 uses IIRC....)
    S-Flex F
    S-Flex E
    ebmpapst 4412FGML

    And I'm trying to shield my eyes from those prices....whoa

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vapor View Post
    And I'm trying to shield my eyes from those prices....whoa
    After accounting for sales-tax being included, and the exchange rate, multiple the prices that you see by around 0.75 to get to the equivalent pre-tax US dollar price.

    The problem at the moment is that the Aussie dollar has gained a LOT in value, but local prices of imported goods are yet to fall. The local retailers are all making hay while the sun shines, 'cos the current prices are what local customers are used to, even though the Aussie dollar is now worth ~80% more than it was 5 years ago (against the US dollar). Heck, it's now worth ~15% more than it was 1 year ago. PITA personally for me, 'cos I own stock in US companies. Any and all recent gains have been wiped out by exchange value shifts.

    Quite frankly, the US does enjoy subsidies from many companies. I've seen it before. When a US company asks for a price of some product from an international supplier, they'll get offered a price that's up to 50% less than a company from another country in the world. For whatever reason, the US currently enjoys being subsidised by the RoTW.
    Last edited by Cathar; 07-03-2007 at 10:26 PM.

  18. #18
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    Oh, and thanks for the suggestions.

  19. #19
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    It'd be nice if your tried the Noctua which is available at jab-tech.

    SPCR rated it highly, they put it in the same league as the Nexus (which is a yate loon).

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by migueld View Post
    It'd be nice if your tried the Noctua which is available at jab-tech.

    SPCR rated it highly, they put it in the same league as the Nexus (which is a yate loon).
    Yep - managed to find it locally in Oz, for ~US$22.50 equiv.

  21. #21
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    This is Great!! At last someone is testing the things we have been wondering about for so long. Hope to see some results soon Cathar!! BTW What kind of bikes do you ride?

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by kiikkuja View Post
    BTW What kind of bikes do you ride?
    <----- That's me. Yamaha R1, 2000 model

    Next bike which is coming in a few months will be a Triumph 675.

    Enjoy some on-board footage:


  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by migueld View Post
    It'd be nice if your tried the Noctua which is available at jab-tech.

    SPCR rated it highly, they put it in the same league as the Nexus (which is a yate loon).
    Okay, after looking into it further, and based on SPCR's comments here, I won't be grabbing one of these fans. I looked at the specs for the fan, and quite disturbingly they provide no pressure specs. It is pressure that counts for a lot, and this fan has a huge clearance between the blades and the fan enclosure, which is bad for pressure generation. Looking at Vapor's test results, I really don't think that it's worth spending my money on.

    I'm interested in testing fans that stand a good chance to prove themselves, not spend hundreds of dollars on junk fans. If someone really wants me to test some fan, the feel free to send me their favorite fan of choice, I'll test it, and mail it back to them when I'm done.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cathar View Post
    I'd hate to do all the work to find out the results, only to have some yob come along and call it biased, and therefore invalid.
    Don't worry, if anyone comes along with a smart@$$ing attitude, we'll flame
    them to Hell and back
    Many review sites have stayed afloat with dodgy and imprecise, even biased
    testing. They are more deserving of criticism.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cathar View Post
    Anyone want to suggest me some more (good) fans? If you could provide a purchase link, that'd be great.
    I second the request for the Sharkoon Golfballs, if you can find them.
    I have also heard good things about the Glacialtech SilentBlades and the
    normal-frame Arctic Cooling fans (AF12025-variants), both have good prices,
    but I've rarely seen any reviews and tests of them. They seem to be available
    at the shops you mentioned.
    Adda fans were popular (well, they still are for PSUs, for example), but they
    seem to have fallen out of the trend lately; I still have a pair on a rad and I
    think they are nice fans.
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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cathar View Post
    BTW - the (12cm) fans I have here:

    Yate Loon D12SL-12 (curved blades)
    Yate Loon D12SL-12 (straight blades)
    Tricod Science SPDL1225S (a Y-L D12SL-12 straight-blade clone - available in Australia - quieter though - 3-pin connector only)
    Noiseblocker SX-1 (Rev 1 though)
    Xinruilian RDL1225S
    AcoustiFan Dustproof "Ultra Quiet Fan" AFDP-12025
    Panaflo FBA1212GH
    Panaflo FBA1212GL
    Delta TFB1212GHE
    EBM/Papst 4312L

    I also have some Gigabyte F121225SL fans, that came with one of my cases.

    Anyone want to suggest me some more (good) fans? If you could provide a purchase link, that'd be great.
    Stew would be nice to include these Spire 120x25mm fans alot of blow power recently bought 10 of them http://www.stonebridgecomputing.com....g/-p-5859.html - price for 10 of these = about 2x panalo 120x38mm fans heh

    weird part is the exact model can't be found on spire web site

    what web site says
    Spire "FD1202B1M3" 120x120x25mm, Ball Bearing, 3pin connector, 2400rpm Fan Speed, 43dBA Noise Level, 96.06 CFM Airflow.
    what i got

    Spire SP12025B1M3 on outer box but fan label says = FD12025B1M
    photos at http://i4memory.com/reviewimages/coo...mm/FD12025B1M/

    I also have the Xinruilian RDL1225S fans... not as much air pressure as Spire ones while both to me are about same noise level.
    Last edited by eva2000; 07-04-2007 at 02:20 AM.
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