Whats up with the Aquaduct?

[ranker]

Good luck. What I said was that you wouldn't see much, if any, difference in the way the computer operates.

TN runs around dissing high flow setups, tries to imply in all of her posts that all AC setups can match the performance of an all star loop.

Now the AC fans backtrack and say it's not meant to perform as well. Their next argument is going to be "well my computer runs don't it?!".

I think the whole mixed metals issue is best summarized by posts made by Marci and Cathar.

My stance on the use of aluminium is well-documented both here and on all other sites I frequent... that being, just avoid using it and thus avoid the complications that come alongside it. (ie: Is the anodizing good enough...? Has the enduser done sufficient research to know he HAS to use an additive...? Already there are now two factors out of anyone's control to account for - remove the use of aluminium, remove two uncontrollable factors, and thus remove the need for this entire topic which crops up with monotonous regularity every 6 weeks and has doneso for eons)

If we could have the faith that folks would use additive, then this wouldn't be a problem, but this whole thread highlights a lack of research, plain and simple. For nearing 10 years it's been common knowledge that you need to run anticorrosive additives alongside aluminium blocks in watercooling systems... to miss this fact simply demonstrates that adequate research prior to the purchase of the parts is lacking. This is what happens when watercooling becomes more mainstream. Parts availability becomes easy, and folks don't bother doing their research first.

This info is WIDELY spread across ALL forums that I frequent... it is covered in every watercooling guide I've ever read, and in more or less every watercooling sections' sticky by default... it's almost the first rule of watercooling it's that old.

Ignore the terminology I use in this next sentence, it isn't meant to be insulting... it's just a suitable way of phrasing it and I can't be assed to think of a more P/C way of saying it...

Manufacturers cannot account for the idiot factor (aka net-clue-factor to coin Cathar's way of saying it). If you can't account for the idiot factor, don't build items that an idiot cannot use correctly.

To release alu blocks is milking the market. Manufacturers know there is a HIGH risk of that aluminium block getting destroyed by what I'd say would be a good 50% of the watercooling market (the chunk that don't do their research and just dive in head first). This destruction isn't covered by warranty, so another sale is milked from the equation when that customer requires a replacement. A responsible manufacturer would include a note in with every block clearly stating that an anticorrosive additive MUST be used.

Telling people it's just fine is just endorsing Koolance/Aqua Computer's desire to milk the market.

...

I wholly agree with Marci's statements. Using aluminium is just a recipe for disaster. Yes, an informed customer will take the steps to ensure that it's not a problem.

Being a bit of a perfectionist though, there is actually a problem with the approach of demanding additives to protect the system. All additives decrease the thermal properties of water, and by the time we're talking about enough additives to protect aluminium in a copper system, we're actually talking about a significant performance reduction.

Aluminium doesn't belong in a copper system for the reasons that Marci listed, and it doesn't belong in any performance system either.

Stew.

[Top Nurse]

Anyone else noticed that Ranker is always running around parroting what others offer as opinions claiming them to be facts?

Ranker:

Have you ever thought about doing something different and coming back to us with a story of how it worked or didn't work? Try it out, as you might learn something, and all of us will sit around and discuss what you have done. It plays a lot better than your constant tirades and crusades. I'm getting tired of it and so are a lot of other people around here.

[ranker]

Anyone else noticed that Ranker is always running around parroting what others offer as opinions claiming them to be facts?

Ranker:

Have you ever thought about doing something different and coming back to us with a story of how it worked or didn't work? Try it out, as you might learn something, and all of us will sit around and discuss what you have done. It plays a lot better than your constant tirades and crusades. I'm getting tired of it and so are a lot of other people around here.

You quote others when they express the same views, yet when I do the same, especially for people who are proven contributors and gurus within watercooling, it's called parroting? Nice try on the spin job. I guess I should ask anyone notice her flip flop on the performance of AC products?

I've purchase and used a Koolance Exos before. I regret that mistake along with the Zalman Reserator 1 that came subsequently. Will I go back to aluminum radiators and components? Nope. I didn't enjoy the 30/70 mix I was directed to use with the Exos accompanied with the high temps and high prices, nor the corrosion on my copper blocks due to my Reserator. I don't need to buy $560 external solution the size of a statue to possibly experience the same results, especially whose warranty is limited along with the return conditions.

Why should I or any other sane individual try a $560 monstrosity, especially when it comes with basically no warranty, no published manufacturing/technical data on this supposed anodizing technique (at least Swiftech stood up and released the specs on their plating process, btw anodizing means squat when all it takes is a scratch), and from all the lessons people have learned in the past about mixing metals?

People started asking for results after many posts by yourself about how AC can run neck and neck with the top of the line high flow systems and now we see backtracking on what its supposed to handle? Now I see that it's only meant to handle a CPU block and possibly one or two other blocks? at the price of $560?

It's a niche product indeed.

[Top Nurse]

This piece of hardware is truly incredible. I actually am in the middle taking it apart to see how they crammed so much hardware in this thing. Only complaint is I would like to have no pump included so it can really shine. That is my "plan b", to remove the existing pump and introduce a DDC1.

I got it opened up now and I think the pump will physically fit, but I'm not sure yet whether it can be interfaced to the rest of the system due to routing constraints. Pics tomorrow.

[Angry_Steel]

Heres an idea after reading through this nonsense, just drop a Swifty GTX and an Aqua block into some saltwater and run a charge through it. Then all the Aluminum phobics can say SEEEEE I told you so when they both disintegrate. But since thats a little extreme, lets analyze a few things.

1. "If we could have the faith that folks would use additive, then this wouldn't be a problem."

The info on the dangers of using ALU in a loop is covered almost anywhere you look, and most of the threads you post in are ones where its not some noob questioning whether or not to get a Aqua. You mostly jump in threads with people who already know the risk and CHOOSE to buy this stuff. Hence you are just trying to forcefeed people your reality and I hardly think they like chewing on it.

2. Swiftech made before, and is making again ALU/CU blocks.

So what category do they fall in? Im sorry but I just dont see how you can rant on one aluminum and praise the other. But hey, one has better temps so it must be ok, and it comes with a 5 year warranty also you can do flexible things with it. Is that warranty any better than any other when it comes right down to it? Does it cover possible damage to your system? I highly doubt it.

A recommendation is one thing, this is just retarded and old.

[MotF Bane]

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...d.php?t=147847

Aluminum + Copper = Green ****

Enjoy.

[septim]

ranker, lets just say that we'd wait for her to finish the setup and run some test. and post comments afterwards...

in my book its better not to temp faith with mixing alu and cu...
and not all new wc users would remember to put in anti corrosion

[NaeKuh]

Just to make this 100% crystal clear ill spell this out in bold to avoid further confusion.

Aqua-Pc's = UK Reseller/Distributor of most water cooling parts including Aqua-computer (see below for this) as well as all of the other big name brands EK, Swiftech etc etc etc. I Sell Water-Cooling

Aqua-Computer = German based water-cooling manufacturer making low flow European water-cooling like the Cuplex Di and the Aquaduct. They Make Water-Cooling

If you have questions about the manufacturing process used in Aqua-Computers product why not ask them direct, e-mail Stefan May info@aqua-computer.de and he will gladly answer all your questions.

I AM SORRY!!!

i got the two confused. I thought you were the vendor.

i humbly appologize aqua-pc


At any rate, lets just wait and see the results. I decided when i do this, im just gonna have seth just custom me something really nice with the money i was intending on dropping this setup into. And i think it would be cheaper and much more effective. Also i can skip mixing metals completely.

[Aqua-Pc's]

I AM SORRY!!!

i got the two confused. I thought you were the vendor.

i humbly appologize aqua-pc

Don't worry about it happens all the time

[Top Nurse]

Are you licensed by AC to repair or modify there units?

Not yet, but give me a while...

[Grinch]

TN runs around dissing high flow setups, tries to imply in all of her posts that all AC setups can match the performance of an all star loop.

Now the AC fans backtrack and say it's not meant to perform as well. Their next argument is going to be "well my computer runs don't it?!".

I think the whole mixed metals issue is best summarized by posts made by Marci and Cathar.



Telling people it's just fine is just endorsing Koolance/Aqua Computer's desire to milk the market.

I feel 100% confident in what Marci & Cathar have to say about watercooling!

Anyone else noticed that Ranker is always running around parroting what others offer as opinions claiming them to be facts?

Ranker:

Have you ever thought about doing something different and coming back to us with a story of how it worked or didn't work? Try it out, as you might learn something, and all of us will sit around and discuss what you have done. It plays a lot better than your constant tirades and crusades. I'm getting tired of it and so are a lot of other people around here.

I have to agree with ranker 100%...Marci & Cathar have probably forgotten more about watercooling than we will EVER know. I take what they say as LAW!

[Top Nurse]

I feel 100% confident in what Marci & Cathar have to say about watercooling!

I have to agree with ranker 100%...Marci & Cathar have probably forgotten more about watercooling than we will EVER know. I take what they say as LAW!

I guess the difference between me and you is that I'm not a =>

Remember what happens to sheep?


All kidding aside I listen and read a lot of stuff. I then digest it and decide if it fits for me. If it doesn't fit I toss it. If it does fit I use it. Most of the times I use a little here and there to come up with something that works for me. The problem here is that you guys are using other peoples opinions and treating them as facts, which is why the pic of the sheep is up at the top.

[EnJoY]

I used to purge my stomach after reading the garbage Top Nurse and RickCain would post in the watercooling section on [H]ardForums. I basically stopped reading that section. I left it as, if they wish to use inferior performance products in their loops, let them do it, and I still don't have a problem with that. However, the spreading of ignorance such as "galvanic corrosion isn't a problem with mixed metals", or "the larger tubing performance advantage is false information" is enough to make me ask if I could please buy some of whatever you two have been smoking?

Anyway, sweet looking product. Certainly surpasses any other external watercooling solution in terms of aesthetics that I've seen. I'd be interested to see how it compares to a Koolance Exos 2 for example, and of course to a top internal loop. I'd also like to see what the measured flow coming out of that thing is like.

[Grinch]

I guess the difference between me and you is that I'm not a =>

Remember what happens to sheep?


All kidding aside I listen and read a lot of stuff. I then digest it and decide if it fits for me. If it doesn't fit I toss it. If it does fit I use it. Most of the times I use a little here and there to come up with something that works for me. The problem here is that you guys are using other peoples opinions and treating them as facts, which is why the pic of the sheep is up at the top.

I am not saying you don't know your stuff....

However when Marci or Cathar have something to say it is usually backed up with ALOT of data that confirms their findings..

And as far as myself being a sheep...I guess you could also say that Marci & Cathar are my sheep herders...

[calvin]

Been water cooling back since the days the Maze3 was the newest kid on the block. (pun time ) Lot of the folks engaged in this mix metal debate probably weren't even born then LOL.

So anyway started out with a submerged pump/res combo, a quite common arrangement back in the days before water cooling became mainstream. The res that housed the AC pump (had to be plugged into the wall ) was a large rectangular box affair - in aluminum. Got it from BE cooling - old timers may remember. We're talking a sizable chunk of aluminum. It was a great unit, totally silent, incredible easy to to fill and bleed. The maze 3 in turn was a copper block. Real museum piece now. Ran that pump setup for years. Never experienced an issue with corrosion. The res did have a decent coating, and always ran a mix of distilled and 10% automotive antifreeze. Anyway, IME mixing the two does not necessarily equal the end of the world. With the proper precautions it appears the two can peacefully coexist.

[Top Nurse]

However when Marci or Cathar have something to say it is usually backed up with ALOT of data that confirms their findings.

I totally agree with you, but the stuff Ranker keeps posting is OPINION.

[Grinch]

and we all know what opinions are like....*-)

[serialk11r]

I totally agree with you, but the stuff Ranker keeps posting is OPINION.

Not exactly...well he DID take over my old job for me, and I'm quite happy with that (no offense), I don't respond to "help me spec parts" threads anymore :P and there isn't anything wrong with saying the D-tek Fuzion is good or anything, is there?

[Top Nurse]

Not exactly...well he DID take over my old job for me, and I'm quite happy with that (no offense), I don't respond to "help me spec parts" threads anymore :P and there isn't anything wrong with saying the D-tek Fuzion is good or anything, is there?

Nope...that's all good stuff. I'm talking about the waste of space around here where he keeps posting Marci's and Cathar's opinion about how the water cooling world is screwed by the use of aluminum. I usually just point them to a link or a post and let them make their own minds up about whatever message I'm trying to get through.

[Grinch]

Nope...that's all good stuff. I'm talking about the waste of space around here where he keeps posting Marci's and Cathar's opinion about how the water cooling world is screwed by the use of aluminum. I usually just point them to a link or a post and let them make their own minds up about whatever message I'm trying to get through.

I don't think Marci & Cathars remarks about aluminum & copper mixing is an opinion...but more or less fact

[serialk11r]

Nope...that's all good stuff. I'm talking about the waste of space around here where he keeps posting Marci's and Cathar's opinion about how the water cooling world is screwed by the use of aluminum. I usually just point them to a link or a post and let them make their own minds up about whatever message I'm trying to get through.

Well yes...I've been trying not to comment on this but oh well..
Yes there are plenty of ways to prevent damage to your system from galvanic corrosion. But people just don't like aluminum lol. Look at the apogee GTX. It has military spec nickel plating AS WELL AS a SECOND layer of zinc cobalt plating (also military spec). And people were whining about that. But yes, I think Cathar and Marci's opinions are legitimate, I mean we do have lots of people who are totally unaware of a lot of things, who go to the store, see this "thermaltake liquid cooling system", think its cool, and buy it...that's what causes problems. Thermaltake aluminum radiator. "high performance" ring a bell?

ranker just let them be, let them buy their AC stuff, let them use their aluminum if they want. Just get off each other's throats...

[NaeKuh]

Well if your happy with your 540 dollar corrosion bucket.

then theres not much more i can say is there?

Anyhow im going to stop posting until you post results. This is getting nowhere.

[sick_g4m3r]

Whats an ETA on the temps? hurry up!!!!

[Top Nurse]

Whats an ETA on the temps? hurry up!!!!

(See post number 10)

[Halk]

I ran this for over a month and find about a 1c difference between my old loop. Overclocking of my e6600 remained the same so I would say it works just fine. The test will be when I get my second 8800 and plan to use it on that loop. Since it has a 120.3 radiator I would say it will do a pretty good job of cooling. I have already seen loops with six blocks with this device and it maintained good operating temps.

Old loop (well now current)

DDC1 w/ Alphacool top
6mm id / 8mm compression fittings
Dtek Fuzion block

The Aquaduct was running plug n cool connectors with the same Fuzion block and 6mm id / 8mm tubing. All I can say is it clearly is the sexiest peice of external hardware available today.

This is the only real information on temps so far - it's far from conclusive, but it is quite positive.

I'm assuming that it was 1 degree _WORSE_ than the DDC. 1 degree isn't a great deal when it's more of a plug and play device. I'm sure the keg doesn't sacrifice 1 degree, but I think this unit looks a fair bit better - if it's to your taste.

So, I think all we could really conclude is that it's not a complete stinker, but way more information is needed to find out if it's going to satisfy someone looking for the best OC from their CPU.