New Aquacomputer block: Cuplex XT Di - Double Impact

[Cyprio]

I've lapped all the AC blocks I've bought. I don't remember any of them being completely flat.

Edit : But I'll let you know if the XT DI block is. I ordered one tonight.

Have they been released then? Is it the G1/4" version?

[jVIDIA]

Senater_Cache and all of you that don't know, and as an image is better then a thousand words, I leave you guys with some images taken from a lapping tutorial that I've made some time ago. OK, let's kick AC ass :


Original looks, only scratched after removing some AS5, looks OK doesn't it ?? !!!




, and know do you have the same opinion as to the flatness ?? !!!




Let's continue ...




A little more ...




Almost perfect ...




Ahhhhh that's more like it ...




And this is how a top quality/price AC WC block should look like when we open the box !!!



I'd love to know that some AC folks did see this pics and learn something !

[Halk]

Have they been released then? Is it the G1/4" version?

They've been sold out for a wee while. They came available again on their site again today.

It's the normal G 1/8 I ordered. I had thought about getting the G1/4 one, but after Cathars comments over the past couple of days there's not enough justification to switch over to G 1/4.

The G 1/4 is being made specifically for the American market, so those guys will be able to get them there - as I understand Sharka has some coming in soon. But the American market apparently won't get the G 1/8.

[Halk]

As far as lapping goes. *shrug* Intel can't even make a flat IHS.

I've heard of all sorts of blocks needing lapped.

Even if a block arrived and the company had a reputation for providing the flattest blocks around - I'd still lap it.

I lapped my heatsinks when I was on air cooling... I think it's just par for the course...

[Cyprio]

They've been sold out for a wee while. They came available again on their site again today.

It's the normal G 1/8 I ordered. I had thought about getting the G1/4 one, but after Cathars comments over the past couple of days there's not enough justification to switch over to G 1/4.

The G 1/4 is being made specifically for the American market, so those guys will be able to get them there - as I understand Sharka has some coming in soon. But the American market apparently won't get the G 1/8.

Cool, thanks.

Could you post some pics when you get hold of it? Some temps wouldnt be a bad idea as well...

[Top Nurse]

He said it was concave so it couldn't be a bow.

So what would you call a concave surface besides a bow in layman's terms?

[ranker]

So what would you call a concave surface besides a bow in layman's terms?

And so it begins...
...the AC cultists from [H] have now decided to invade XS.

[Top Nurse]

I'd love to know that some AC folks did see this pics and learn something !

I think all of us already know it and lap the blocks. So AC ain't perfect. Who is? My silver Cuplex XT and TwinPlex's look exactly like that last picture.

Edit: Your's still looks a little wavy.

[Top Nurse]

And so it begins...
...the AC cultists from [H] have now decided to invade XS.

Hate to mention it, but your the newcomer around here... (see join date...)

Besides weren't you the one who invited us all over here?

[Mekrel]

As far as lapping goes. *shrug* Intel can't even make a flat IHS.

I've heard of all sorts of blocks needing lapped.

Even if a block arrived and the company had a reputation for providing the flattest blocks around - I'd still lap it.

I lapped my heatsinks when I was on air cooling... I think it's just par for the course...

Well you would be making performance worse if you lapped a block from the company with the best reputation for having a flat base, and that is a swiftech block.

[ranker]

Besides weren't you the one who invited us all over here?

Ah yes. So let's get back to your propaganda shall we. "Low flow performs better than high flow" right?

[Grinch]

Ah yes. So let's get back to your propaganda shall we. "Low flow performs better than high flow" right?

really? that's it I am selling all my $hit and going to all Aqua Computer equipment.... ....NOT!

[Halk]

According to Cathar moving from an AquaStream (low flow pump) to a DDC would net around 0.2 degrees C in CPU temps.

And as for tubing...

"Now to the tubing/fitting impact on final CPU temperature:

6.35 (1/4") ID with quick-fit = +0.53C
8mm ID over 8mm barbs = +0.45C
8mmID with quick-fit = +0.19C
3/8" ID over 3/8" barbs = +0.13C
3/8" ID with quick-fit = +0.04C
7/16" ID stretched over 1/2" barbs = +0.01C
1/2" ID over 1/2" barbs = 0.37 + 0.24 = +0.00C"

So yes, low flow does underperform. By less than 1 degree.

Can we get away from the constant "Garden hose!" "Weak! Doesn't perform!" arguements now?

[Grinch]

what about head pressure?

[Halk]

what about head pressure?

I couldn't comment on head pressure of the AquaStream, I really don't know enough in depth to say.

He was spilling the beans on [H] forum.

"While a 10-15W pump is near optimal (DDC1 or DDC1+ (aka DDC2)), a 5W pump or a 20W pump will still deliver final CPU temperatures within 0.2-0.3C of the optimal choices."

"Independent of tubing size, the optimal pump to use works out to be a Laing DDC1 (10W) with a custom top. Using a ~5W pump (e.g.. Aquastream thingy), predict pretty much a fixed 0.15C CPU temperature penalty is seen regardless of tubing used. Using a ~20W pump (e.g. Laing DDC1+ 18W with custom top), a pretty much fixed 0.06C CPU temp penalty is seen. i.e. not much difference depending on what pump is used."

That's basically all he said on it. Although later he went on to say that the more blocks in the loop the more the heat involved is, so the more room there is for a powerful pump to make a difference without causing a penalty by the heat it drops into the loop.

[Grinch]

if that were all true...nobody would use an iwaki rd-30...which is considered the MESSIAH of pumps...

[Halk]

if that were all true...nobody would use an iwaki rd-30...which is considered the MESSIAH of pumps...

I have to say what Cathar says seems to make sense. Although I would be surprised if my AquaComputer watercooling performs as close as 1 degree to the massive powered wide tubed, huge pump stuff.

My limited understanding says that radiators have a thermal resistance, and while they can dispose of heat, the more heat there is the higher the heat of the radiator. Uh, I mean no matter how well the radiator is dumping the heat out, if that heat increases the water will increase by a small amount. I believe this is related to the K figure for thermal resistance that people throw about.

Since there is diminishing gains in pumping more and more water through a loop, it reaches a point where the heat dumped into the water by the pump itself starts to have an adverse effect. Well, actually I suppose it _always_ has an adverse effect, but up to a certain point that effect is offset by the extra flow in the loop, which equates to lower temperatures.

What Cathar was saying, I think, is that around a 10W pump it reaches a point where the extra flow is more than offset by the extra heat.

[ranker]

if that were all true...nobody would use an iwaki rd-30...which is considered the MESSIAH of pumps...

A DDC-2 is a beast enough as it is yet all AC enthusiasts will ridicule the pump in favor of Eheims.

Anyhow, Halk is one of the few sensible AC enthusiasts from [H]. He doesn't discount the fact that AC products are quite expensive and does admit he prefers them for the looks and that their performance isn't at the same level as some other custom builds. I still disagree with him on a few topics but he's bearable and even recommends not choosing AC on few occasions (which would be blasphemy for Top Nurse). Top Nurse is a high ranking member of the AC's religious inner circle similar to an Operating Thetan for Scientology. Hey Top Nurse, you meet Xenu yet?

He's not as antagonistic as Top Nurse is who will pick an AC setup every time no matter what the person asks.

[Halk]

That was well, patronising. I'll take it as a compliment though.

As far as loyalty to companies go. I don't really have any. If a company goes the extra mile for me I'll do what I can to keep putting my business their way.

But as far as AquaComputer? Their stuff is great. It does the job very well, I have no complaints about the stuff I've bought from them over the past couple of years.

As far as price is concerned it's a different story in the UK than it is in the US. I bought an AC Cuplex XT DI for the same price as it costs to buy a D-Tek Fusion. So over here there isn't a price difference. I understand in the US it costs 50% more for the AC Cuplex than it does the Fusion. That's got to make AC far less attractive over there.

As far as the performance of the blocks? Well, I just spent 500 on my latest upgrade (ordered the stuff this evening), it's a very hot day in Scotland, but my current setup has my CPU at 24 degrees. (Opteron 185, 1.425 volts, 2.9Ghz, idle). So I can't complain about that.

The stuff looks (in my opinion) miles ahead of anything else out there. The reservoir - craps all over those plastic boxes or nasty looking tubes.

The fittings themself look better than barbs - barbs to me just don't look secure.

8mm OD tubing is neat, it's easy, it's not going to torque the edge off my chipset, it's easy to route, it looks more elegant.

When I first picked AquaComputer it was not the cheapest around, and I realised it would not give the absolute best performance.

But at the end of the day, as far as I am concerned these hold true for it.

The performance is excellent. It looks excellent. It costs the same as any other gear I'd be comfortable buying.

So at the end of the day, yes, I believe AquaComputer stuff is the best around -FOR ME-. That doesn't mean I'm going to shove it down everybodies neck that asks "What watercooling is good". Likewise I'm going to get quite offended if someone tells me that they know what I like, or what's good for me better than I do.

[Halk]

Cool, thanks.

Could you post some pics when you get hold of it? Some temps wouldnt be a bad idea as well...

I'm sorry, I missed this reply.

Pics I can do. Temps I'm afraid not.

It'll take 2-5 working days to get to Scotland from Germany. So probably I'll have it by the weekend.

It won't be going in my PC until I strip it down, clean the case out, fit a 120.3 in the base (means cutting the base) fit noise dampening stuff all over the inside, install the new motherboard...

So it could be weeks before I get temps on it. And it'll be going in a new motherboard, so they won't be particularly easy to compare to other stuff...

But pics? Sure, I'll strip it down when it arrives, I think everybody wants to see the copper base.

[Grinch]

look forward to seeing some pics..

[Cathar]

Bah!

It's not a matter of low-flow performs better than high-flow, it's a matter of balance.

The Iwaki RD-30 is a great pump, but only if you run it at 17-18v, and match it with some beastly radiator and multiple water-blocks. In that role, as a single reliable high-quality pump, it excels. It is the high-quality single monster overclocking pump of choice. Times have caught up to it though. It does have competition nowadays which it didn't have 2 years ago.

At the time that I was espousing the RD30 many moons back, the Laing DDC1+ (more commonly known as the DDC2) didn't exist, and to make a good thing better, modded tops came out for the DDC2.

Nowadays, if you asked me to pick a more "balanced" pump between a top-modded DDC2, and an undervolted RD30, the separation is pretty much nonexistent. The DDC2 is smaller, quieter, more convenient, cheaper, and with a modded top allows you to fit whatever tubing you want.

The RD30 is larger, much louder, heavier, requires a separate power supply and is more expensive. The one good thing going for the RD30 is that they are reliable. You almost need never be concerned about it failing, something which can't be said of the DDC's.

The Laing D5 with its variable speeds is another excellent contender, although the DDC1+ pips it for size, noise, and tubing flexibility. The D5 seems to be more reliable though.

With everyone using IHS capped CPU's nowadays, pumping power has less of an influence than it used to. From what I'm seeing, both in theory and actual testing (which are aligning nicely), you can pick almost any single pump with 2-5mH2O of pressure head, and 8-15lpm of flow-rate, and the temperature differences at the CPU at the end of the day will not vary by more than 0.3C between them.

We are now in an era of relative flow-agnosticity with respect to pump choice.

On bare-die CPU's, low-flow, small tubing, weak pumped w/c systems lost out. On modern IHS capped CPU's, the differences are now small enough to be counted as being insignificant by many.

I'm in the middle of constructing a tubing selection guide. The results for modern CPU's may surprise many here.

[Halk]

I wasn't trying to imply low flow did outperform high flow. I was trying to say that for me the performance difference doesn't warrant the move. And if I was starting again I'd go for low, weaker flow, again because the performance increase doesn't warrant (for me) the bigger stuff.

You did, however, manage to prevent me re-specing my whole system to use G1/4 barbs and equivalent tubing last night though.

For me personally it'd take 5 degrees, possibly more before I'd say it would be "worth it" to move to higher bore tubing. The pump isn't so big a thing, when I rebuild my PC I'm going to double-decouple the AquaStream Pump. I dare say if I went for a DDC Ultra they're quiet, but surely they have to vibrate more. Even then though, I'm sure triple decoupling it if needed would kill the vibration. (I actually bought enough of the screw/rubber/screw mounts to do it 3 times).

[HiJon89]

So what would you call a concave surface besides a bow in layman's terms?

A bow is convex, concave means the surface bends in the wrong direction and the waterblock would then make horrible contact with the IHS, at least the part of the IHS where the CPU die is located.

[serialk11r]

I wasn't trying to imply low flow did outperform high flow. I was trying to say that for me the performance difference doesn't warrant the move. And if I was starting again I'd go for low, weaker flow, again because the performance increase doesn't warrant (for me) the bigger stuff.

You did, however, manage to prevent me re-specing my whole system to use G1/4 barbs and equivalent tubing last night though.

For me personally it'd take 5 degrees, possibly more before I'd say it would be "worth it" to move to higher bore tubing. The pump isn't so big a thing, when I rebuild my PC I'm going to double-decouple the AquaStream Pump. I dare say if I went for a DDC Ultra they're quiet, but surely they have to vibrate more. Even then though, I'm sure triple decoupling it if needed would kill the vibration. (I actually bought enough of the screw/rubber/screw mounts to do it 3 times).

I don't think you understand that performance is affected by a lot of things. Its not just the barbs, the pump, the block, or the radiator. But as a whole, everything counts Now I don't know what you have but for the price of that aquacomputer stuff I think I can get a watercooling system that WILL perform 5C better or more than some aquacomputer thingy... :P Don't like the fat tubes? use 7/16", the OD is only a bit bigger than the 10mm OD tubes you have :P