A Good Amusing Must-Read (if you like intarweb debates!)

[nikhsub1]

[ranker]

It's still wiggling and spreading misinformation.

Time to get back to beating it. *pulls out club*

[phelan1777]

<<<<Reclines back on the nearest rise and watches the light who in the distance.

Enjoying a cold drink.

[afireinside]

The only thing that needs to be beaten are AC owners. Everyone who owns aquacomputer watercooling (especially that 560 dollar monstrosity that probably performs worse than a single BIP /w yate) should be rounded up and bashed over the head with whiffle bats for as many hours as it takes for them to come to their senses.

[IanY]

This is like the gladiator pit.

[NickS]

The only thing that needs to be beaten are AC owners. Everyone who owns aquacomputer watercooling (especially that 560 dollar monstrosity that probably performs worse than a single BIP /w yate) should be rounded up and bashed over the head with whiffle bats for as many hours as it takes for them to come to their senses.

LOL. Thanks for the laugh. Lacrosse sticks and other assorted club like objects would work too.

This is like the gladiator pit.

Nah, THIS.. IS.. SPARTAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!

[NaeKuh]

This is like the gladiator pit.

i think he ran back to [H] forums to dig up answers to the next wave of questions.

These are valid questions. If the block does perform better, then hell, i was looking at a 300 dollar G5 block, a 90 dollar Coolplex XT DI is chump change compared to it.


Also, If we look back at the storm, we can tell it performs absolutely terribly on a quadcore. The CoolplexXT which is a storm knockoff, will not be adaqut for a quad. The Double Impact has a much larger cooling zone, however, i would assume the recycled water on the second jets would hurt the second cooling area.

I think someone said it b4, it could of been done with a single larger jet, and no need to add uber restrictions with the double jet. This was just added bling.

If i honestly wanted bling, i would get that new koolance unit. 5 inigrated Pumps is

Now thats bling...


However i dont think it would perform near par to my current layout. But hell, if were looking at bling.
http://www.koolance.com/shop/product...roducts_id=372


Ahhh... thats yummy if you could take it apart and mod the unit. But at 1400 dollars its 200 dollars shy of my budget.


WOW someone get the admins over there to activate my account.

Its taking forever....

[ranker]

Us silly Americans don't value silence... at least according to AC reps. Hmm, wonder why undervolted Yates and Thermochill PA's are so popular..

Originally Posted by slame View Post
3. watercooling is for silence, thats what we think.

And here we have the main difference between the German and the American market

ikellensbro points out wonderfully that tube size does matter. He points out that if you view the chart below, just going from 1/4" to 3/8" a delta of 2.5C is seen. Not to mention it shows various 'noob' ware kits like the Aquamini Gate beating out AC. Hmmm... I wonder how much difference would really be if we extrapolate that data to C2D's in an AC vs Best of the Best matchup.

Slame, 55*C is...awful by this forum's standards. is your e6600 rated for even higher temperatures? Sure, but just like a car (ah, more car analogies), you don't run a car at redline 24/7. With a less restrictive loop with better performing components, you could likely see temperatures in the 40's at worst, which should give you more OC headroom. Cooler chips have longer lives and (more importantly in this forum) higher OC potential. Is this the case for everyone? No, but there's a reason why world records are set on LN2, and the highest 24/7 OCs are done on phase change. Every chip is different, but you're holding yourself back choosing to go low flow? How much? Could be nothing, could be several hundred MHz.

The master of misinformation here makes his claim for Low Flow = High Flow, which was proven false earlier by ikellensbro and others. However, one must admire his false courage in defending an indefensible position. And then he decides to show off his wallet e-peen by saying his Aquaduct360 costs more than my rig. Sad part is, my rig would kill his and is cheaper to boot. Hell almost two of my loops would be cheaper than his Aquaduct360 and still perform better without dealing with the external monstrosity.

the sad part is your "performance" can be match with smaller tubing and far less loops. Just a fact of life I learned years ago while watercooling. And trust me you don't spend alot considering one Aquaduct360 cost more than 90% of your cooling equipment across your three loops and doesn't require two cases welded together to fit.

Rick is at it again. Now he claims we get less since we pay less. I hate to break it to him, but we get more AND pay less. He keeps flip flopping on his definition of "value". In his mind its correct to overpay for AC gear and get less performance because in the end... we get more?

See I would rather buy one device that can do it all than rely on four sub companies to get my task completed. That is the great part of having choice and I am a firm believer you get what you pay for. Three things typically happen to the bargin shopper:

1. Pay less and get less
2. End up paying more to get what they really wanted
3. Complain about price before even understanding what it is

When asked about his reasons in participating in this thread, Rick states that his goal is to keep me in check because of my made up system and the things I pretend to own. Someone must be running out of misinformation as the personal attacks on myself are ramping up!

Actually it is to make sure people with sig files full of e-penis don't over run this forum. You can tell by the incredible detail in your sig you want instant respect based on some text. I would venture to guess you are one of those guys who reads alot, trys very little but have the opinion of a genious (and narrow minded). I would have much more respect if you actually tried 1/8th of the hardware you bash.

The OP, whom posed the initial question, has made his decision and strikes back at the AC fan club:

R1cK, question for you. Why would you enter into watercooling with just whatever companies are trying to push on you, instead of doing research in forums like this, asking other peoples opinions, and then starting your own opinions off of those? Then, once you get into it with good equipment, drawing your own conclusions from your own testing, or use, but all the while building off of the things that other people told you.

I bet the only reason you got into AC was because someone convinced you that AC was 'better' than anything else...

They each have their place. Low flow is great for passive/silent cooling, High flow is performance oriented (and dont give me BS about how flow doesnt make much of a difference. you know it does, though not much, it does make a difference. and dont make a comment that performance is a relative term either, it isnt. Silence, and looks are relative, to the individual, but performance is not, performance is testable, and thats in how well the blocks take heat away from the parts, and how well the rad/fans take heat away from the water.)

Finally broken, Rick cedes this point. However, in order to secure his manliness he'll continue to attack me personally and resurrect the thread again with more misinformation.

I will agree if temps are the only gauge of performance, then yes don't buy AC gear.

Rick starts going off about how it's stupid to WC if we're looking to overclock and instead we should use Phase Change. WC should be for silence only according to Rick. Here we have an amusing response by Erasmus to his claims.

My "wise" word of advice is not to water cool if "cooling" is the only metric as it doesn't cool as much as phase changing.......

Again, nobody wants to adress what loop is "better" if loop A and loop B give the same overclock yet are 2-3c off in temps. It's OK to be stuck on raw cooling but you have to ask yourself what is the point if you get no true performance (meaning processing 0's and 1's any faster) gains.

You still dont get it do you (or can't read).

You cannot guarantee that the difference in cooling wont make a difference in overclock until you try it. For everyone that is not a feasible option, therefore if you are watercooling for overclock alone, the choice is simple...get that which COOLS BEST. Please stop throwing around 1000$ phase change units (and ridiculous power bills for full time usage) as if it is in competition with watercooling. You might as well offer that putting your computer on the dark side of the moon and running the cables all the way back to your desk would work better.

The store owner/pimper of AC products starts getting involved in the poop slinging. Interesting to see a store owner stoop that low. Funny how, I rarely touch on the tubing size within the debate and mainly stick with the overpriced nature and lack of performance aspect. But hey, if you touch a man's livelihood...watch out!

Also if we are "Fan Boys" (and Girls ) I suppose that makes you a "Size Queen" then.

I keep asking Rick and company to back up their AC mantra of 2-3C; it keeps getting repeated over and over as if it were some indoctrinated cult chant.

Again, nobody wants to adress what loop is "better" if loop A and loop B give the same overclock yet are 2-3c off in temps. It's OK to be stuck on raw cooling but you have to ask yourself what is the point if you get no true performance (meaning processing 0's and 1's any faster) gains.

I ask him to back it up and he replies in turn:

Again, you won't address the question but that is fine. Your like a broken record man... Look at all your posts and they are the same. You just made it to my ignore list so I suggest you do the same, moving forward. I'll keep your sweet post in my sig file so I can remember what you are about.

So when you can't back up a claim, avoid it AND make a personal attack. This is like turning into a 1 sided presidential debate. I had no idea I was even nominated!

I'm addressing a claim you're making based upon this critically, fundamentally flawed assumption. If your assumption is grossly flawed, then your whole argument bears no merit. Even if you're misguided assumption were to be correct, Erasmus, ikellensbro, Arcygenical and others have addressed it and proven your claim to be wrong.

I guess it's better to dig one's head in the sand and ignore the voices of reason in this thread than to face the facts that many here have presented.

The thread is then derailed by more attacks from the AC Mafia on yours truly. We finally manage to get back on topic:

If loop A achieves the same overclock as loop B but is 3-5c hotter, which loop give better performance?

So it's gone from "2-3C" now to "3-5C"? Which one was it. Please be consistent.

And, more flip flopping. ikellensbro and Erasmus proceed to debunk Rick's "theories" that include, "it doesn't matter what you own, quietness is all that matters"...that begs the question: If that were true, why even pay more for an AC product in the first place? Wouldn't a $100 TT kit be sufficient then?


Noticing the tides of the battle have change, Top Nurse and co quickly change their mantra to one of "We watercool for silence, watercooling isn't made to OC".

After doing my homework I decided to buy a Koolance Exos. You should have heard the howling around here about all the same things that have already been covered in this thread. After I installed it I started using the AquaMark3D program. I was able to reach an OC on my 2600+ AMD processor that was within the top 10% of all reported OC's on water. Obviously this was within the inherent slop of the good and worst of OC processors.

So what did this prove to me? It proved what R1ck, Slame, and Shoggy have all said in this thread. That the reason to water cool is for silence as the water cooling has very little to do with the OC obtained. It also proved to me that about 80% of the BS around here is just that, BULL !

At this point they're flip flopping worse than a fish out of water.

[NaeKuh]

LOL ranker... my waterloop would blow the aquapc in price and performance.

Uhh.. lets see...
270 dollar RD-30 + MeanWell
140 dollar PA120.3
70 dollar GTX
40 dollar DD 680i
30 dollar MCW30
60 dollars EK 250

610 dollars just on loop 1!!

I dont think i need to get onto loop 2.



So now that we got both price and performance out of the equation... Why is the aquaPC setup still better?? im still waiting for an answer from anyone that can answer this question.


oh man... me joining that thread = GG for them.

I have a whole cascade of pics i use over at Anand, to fight against these guys. IT usually shuts them up after 1 post. Or there in there back room trying to shove thre koolance in a fridge to pull lower ambient, and load temps on there exos system.

Either is fine... because all that work they needed to go though to match my temps, is all worth it. Usually they dont come back with another koolance post for a very long time.


Also there experience question to you... I have been h2o cooling for 3 yrs. Not a long time, but long enough to know whats right and whats wrong. I made a sticky on watercooling over at anand. I left parts names out of it for reasons like this. Also, who knows if the D-tek or ApogeeGTX will still be king in the next couple years. I would hate recomending a block thats been out dated for its time.

Ummm i think i worked on a total of 20 watercooled computers. I own 4 of them. My main rig is most likely the top apex in watercooling, while my NAS is most likely near the apex of quiet cooling. I played with multi pump, multi radiator design, as well as dual loop, single loop. At one point i even tried a triple loop... "looks at my poor armor" she couldnt hold it all. So i had to ditch that.

So i guess im still not qualified for that thread huh? because that guy has been building computers back when they were atari? Im sorry ive been working with lesuire suit larry series back when he was building original 80286's. My dad was most likely doing the same thing, playing with original scsi, and using dual 5 1/4 floppies.

But guess who he comes to now when he has a computer question, or needs a new rig?


That guy needs to learn technology consistantly changes. If his AMD XP style cooling is adaquit, then by gods so be it. While he's happy crusing though his stuff, its people like me that get the ghost round in CS:Source, and end up getting extra cash at start.

And you guys wonder how the hell some people have colts on the first round. :P

[phelan1777]

Also, If we look back at the storm, we can tell it performs absolutely terribly on a quadcore. The CoolplexXT which is a storm knockoff, will not be adaqut for a quad. The Double Impact has a much larger cooling zone, however, i would assume the recycled water on the second jets would hurt the second cooling area.

HEY! MY SToRM WORKS WELL ON MY QUAD!

LOL ranker... my waterloop would blow the aquapc in price and performance.
Uhh.. lets see...
270 dollar RD-30 + MeanWell
140 dollar PA120.3
70 dollar GTX
40 dollar DD 680i
30 dollar MCW30
60 dollars EK 250
610 dollars just on loop 1!!

I dont think i need to get onto loop 2.
So now that we got both price and performance out of the equation... Why is the aquaPC setup still better?? im still waiting for an answer from anyone that can answer this question.

300 RD-30+Meanwell
140 PA120.3
100 MCW60X2 w/ MC14s
30$ MCW30
40$ EK150

not to mention barbs etc

I can feel your pain :-P

[Top Nurse]

WOW! This is crazy that this Ranker guy is quoting people off another forum and answering it here...


I'm surprised that you guys let Ranker spout off like this. From a professional perspective I would say he has some pent up emotions that are expressing themselves in a very poor manner. However, we usually just ignore this kind of behavior and hope it blows itself out. If it doesn't he might want to consider taking a light sedative.

P.S. Do you guys have a twit list switch?

[NickS]

HEY! MY SToRM WORKS WELL ON MY QUAD!



300 RD-30+Meanwell
140 PA120.3
100 MCW60X2 w/ MC14s
30$ MCW30
40$ EK150

not to mention barbs etc

I can feel your pain :-P

Damn, you guys could get phase for the same price. $400+ is starting to get stupid for water.

Used 50z - $40
Used MCR220 - $25
Used MCW6002 w/939 Hold Down - $15
New LGA775 MCW6002 Kit - $15
Tube, tline, fans, misc - $30

$125, and it pwns for CPU only lol.

[IanY]

Top Nurse,

Ma'am, he just presents a differing viewpoint, that's all. We have different objectives that we would like to accomplish with water cooling systems. Some view it as a hobby, to be taken to extremes, while others water cool out of necessity to maintain their sanity.




Having said that, any of you guys like to see my water cooling bill consolidated ?

[Hard H20]

WOW! This is crazy that this Ranker guy is quoting people off another forum and answering it here...


I'm surprised that you guys let Ranker spout off like this. From a professional perspective I would say he has some pent up emotions that are expressing themselves in a very poor manner. However, we usually just ignore this kind of behavior and hope it blows itself out. If it doesn't he might want to consider taking a light sedative.

P.S. Do you guys have a twit list switch?

Your last post was made in November of 2005. Now you have 5 posts in this thread today. There is no need to stir an already problematic thread.

Another mental giant from [H] has appeared.

[NaeKuh]

WOW! This is crazy that this Ranker guy is quoting people off another forum and answering it here...


I'm surprised that you guys let Ranker spout off like this. From a professional perspective I would say he has some pent up emotions that are expressing themselves in a very poor manner. However, we usually just ignore this kind of behavior and hope it blows itself out. If it doesn't he might want to consider taking a light sedative.

P.S. Do you guys have a twit list switch?

this ist he only way i can particpate in that thread. I cant post in it, so im basically stating things i will be reposting in that thread in hopes you will read it.

I aint bashing the coolplex XT DI until i see results on it. I actually want a silver one if they do come out on G1/4 to play with on my loop. But you havent answered any of my questions i asked here.

1. I can afford a AquaComputer setup. IRC, my setup is MORE EXPENSIVE then a aquacomputer setup.

2. My setup performs on a exponential scale compared to a Aqua Computer setup.

3. It did allow me to gain a greater overclock. Not to mention a larger headroom in cooling. IE. Summer is coming up, i DONT need to throttle her down.

4. My experience is listed carefully, and so are my qualifications. Do you want Proof of all my watercooled computers? Id be more then happy to post those pics up as well. But i think the people in this forum are already kind of sick of it.

5. Are you saying your statements out of vain itself? Because you own a aquacomputer, and its expensive, is that all your proud about? Because if thats the case, I own a RD-30! OH YEAH! unfortunately, it wont perform better then my dual DDC-2 <--- looking at nikhsub for this statement.

Its expensive, its shiny! its made of metal! Do i get a cookie?

[phelan1777]

Damn, you guys could get phase for the same price. $400+ is starting to get stupid for water.

Used 50z - $40
Used MCR220 - $25
Used MCW6002 w/939 Hold Down - $15
New LGA775 MCW6002 Kit - $15
Tube, tline, fans, misc - $30

$125, and it pwns for CPU only lol.

I am getting a small phase, for a 7900GTX so HA!

AND getting a naked X6800...........so i will be having more fun soon enough.................might actually get some decent Over clocks as well........


errr okay back OT...............ummm what was the Topic again?

5. Are you saying your statements out of vain itself? Because you own a aquacomputer, and its expensive, is that all your proud about? Because if thats the case, I own a RD-30! OH YEAH! unfortunately, it wont perform better then my dual DDC-2 <--- looking at nikhsub for this statement.

Its expensive, its shiny! its made of metal! Do i get a cookie?

NO SIR, No cookie for you :p

Excuse me, the RD30 performs VERY WELL thank you................<<<is waiting for Nikhsub as well.

[migueld]

Ranker, I think you are being the hypocrite here. All this BS talk demanding proof and stuff and you are the one bashing WITHOUT real data. And no, that little chart doesn't say anything, it's comparing a very small subset of beginner kits, and there isn't even a decent US kit in there. You don't even own AC. You are boldly attacking AC without direct data! After reading 15+ pages, I still haven’t seen decent data favoring either side, it’s getting tiresome.

Even if you come up with real data of a AC block being outperformed by, say, a Fuzion, you would still not prove anything. A lot of people at HF acknowledge that they are aware that AC may be outperformed by 2-3C however they value the overall value of a AC system.

And you aren’t even reading the chart right. The 3/8” AC system performs very well per noise output when compared to the other kits, including and surprisingly the Alphacool XP-120 at 7V.

I know how you feel about HF loving AC, maybe undeservingly. But the same thing happens here in XS, people are biased towards a narrow subset of products and trash the rest, many times undeservingly. So either be fair, or choose your camp and stay with it. EDIT: and shut up. :P

[IanY]

hey.. my water cooling equipment alone is more expensive than most Core2Duo computers

[Hard H20]

Its expensive, its shiny! its made of metal! Do i get a cookie?

Post of the day. That's funny right there, I don't care who you are.

[NaeKuh]

Ranker, I think you are being the hypocrite here. All this BS talk demanding proof and stuff and you are the one bashing WITHOUT real data. And no, that little chart doesn't say anything, it's comparing a very small subset of beginner kits, and there isn't even a decent US kit in there. You don't even own AC. You are boldly attacking AC without direct data! After reading 15+ pages, I still haven’t seen decent data favoring either side, it’s getting tiresome.

Even if you come up with real data of a AC block being outperformed by, say, a Fuzion, you would still not prove anything. A lot of people at HF acknowledge that they are aware that AC may be outperformed by 2-3C however they value the overall value of a AC system.

And you aren’t even reading the chart right. The 3/8” AC system performs very well per noise output when compared to the other kits, including and surprisingly the Alphacool XP-120 at 7V.

I know how you feel about HF loving AC, maybe undeservingly. But the same thing happens here in XS, people are biased towards a narrow subset of products and trash the rest, many times undeservingly. So either be fair, or choose your camp and stay with it.

what kind of real data do you need to prove that a thermochill PA120.3 would crush the AC?

Want us to pm marci, aka the owner of thermochill, to add in his comments about the radiator? Or maybe we should get cathar to list out why the coolplex XT wont work on todays quads, because its a storm design.

Even better yet, can cathar tell us his reponse to the Double Impact? Im sure he thought about this, but gave up because he thought realistically, no one will have dual DDC-2 or RD-30's in there system except extremist like me.

To be honest, i think cathar is either laughing his head off in some corner after seeing the double impact, or he's got a new inspiration for a new line which will be less restrictive then the double impact, yet cool more effiently.

Oh wait... thats called the G5!

And it would still come out a bit less for a PA120.3 + G5 + DDC-2.

about 140 + 250? thats the price i saw it when it was on sale. + 75.


hmmmmmm prestige... i think the G5 is more of a head turner to the watercooling world then a AC system is.

Post of the day. That's funny right there, I don't care who you are.

AHAHAHAHAHA i always use this line on my clients. Sometimes i'll do stuff as a feduciary and not expect commission. Usually my large clients who i made a ton off commission. But when i do a free transfer, or i readjust there account to mirror market performance, sometimes as a thank you, i will say i did the exchange for you. My commission a MS. Fields While chocolate macadamein nut cookie!

One of my clients always has a box waiting for me when i see him after i said this. It was on a pun tho, but its funny to see some of my clients having a good sense of humor. And yes i love those cookies.

[NickS]

hey.. my water cooling equipment alone is more expensive than most Core2Duo computers

Will you adopt me, Ian? I want leet water too.

[NickS]

what kind of real data do you need to prove that a thermochill PA120.3 would crush the AC?

Want us to pm marci, aka the owner of thermochill, to add in his comments about the radiator? Or maybe we should get cathar to list out why the coolplex XT wont work on todays quads, because its a storm design.

Even better yet, can cathar tell us his reponse to the Double Impact? Im sure he thought about this, but gave up because he thought realistically, no one will have dual DDC-2 or RD-30's in there system except extremist like me.

To be honest, i think cathar is either laughing his head off in some corner after seeing the double impact, or he's got a new inspiration for a new line which will be less restrictive then the double impact, yet cool more effiently.

Oh wait... thats called the G5!

And it would still come out a bit less for a PA120.3 + G5 + DDC-2.

about 140 + 250? thats the price i saw it when it was on sale. + 75.


hmmmmmm prestige... i think the G5 is more of a head turner to the watercooling world then a AC system is.

To really lay down the STFU on AC lovers, we need to get..

MaxxxRacer, Petra (FTW), Cathar, marci.. and a few others in here.

[NaeKuh]

To really lay down the STFU on AC lovers, we need to get..

MaxxxRacer, Petra (FTW), Cathar, marci.. and a few others in here.

NAh... after MAX read this thread.. he probably went OH HELLZ NO...

I'll leave the little people to this..

[IanY]

Uhh.. lets see...
270 dollar RD-30 + MeanWell
140 dollar PA120.3
70 dollar GTX
40 dollar DD 680i
30 dollar MCW30
60 dollars EK 250

610 dollars just on loop 1!!

I dont think i need to get onto loop 2.

Naekuh,

Its sad, but I think I have you by $510 on loop one

[NaeKuh]

Naekuh,

Its sad, but I think I have you by $510 on loop one

EYEHAYCHOO!!!