E4300 + Ultra 120 Extreme

[taco]

I don't know what to think of these temps, they seem a bit high for the voltage.

specs are :

E4300 Q640A459 9x383 1.5v
Antec EA430
Abit IB9



At 3.6Ghz(1.55v) I've seen it get to 82c. I really want to take the IHS off, but the base won't make contact with the metal retention cover thing.

[Razor_Sniper]

Thats actually a pretty nice temp. My temp with IHS removed is 61Stressed. And this is with watercooling and 1.365 Vcore.

[Okda]

not healthy for 24/7

i am sure u can decrease the overclock to around 3.2Ghz which will let u decrease the vcore a lot, which means not far behind perfromance but with much less load temp

[taco]

I just know it can do better then this, it's being hindered. I just want that solid 100% 3.6GHz all day.

Anyone seen any guides, or pictures to removing the metal retention plate without damaging it? How does your block make contact with the die?

I may go ahead and lap the heatsink tonight, but I'm really interested about getting that IHS *OFF*

[ineedaname]

I say LAP job is needed!!!

[Bail_w]

As long as it is under 70C, i think it is fine for 24/7 uses. besides, your tjunction is 100C

[Razor_Sniper]

I just know it can do better then this, it's being hindered. I just want that solid 100% 3.6GHz all day.

Anyone seen any guides, or pictures to removing the metal retention plate without damaging it? How does your block make contact with the die?

I may go ahead and lap the heatsink tonight, but I'm really interested about getting that IHS *OFF*

There is copper plate between the core and waterblock. This makes the temps worse.

[taco]

So, I took a look at the socket, figured a way to get the retention mount OFF, without doing damage and with the option of putting it back if needed. Also did the BSEL pin mod as well. It's weird, I cleared the cmos before I placed it in after the mod. First boot, shows up as 2.4Ghz which indicates that it's 1066 but after a reboot, it is no longer? Dunno

In the mean time I remounted everything, I need to figure out a way to get this IHS OFF! The bonding material is too great, for even a razor blade it seems. Any suggestions? I want it OFF, real bad. I've done 478's and A64's, and the blade always goes in like butter.

[Razor_Sniper]

So, I took a look at the socket, figured a way to get the retention mount OFF, without doing damage and with the option of putting it back if needed. Also did the BSEL pin mod as well. It's weird, I cleared the cmos before I placed it in after the mod. First boot, shows up as 2.4Ghz which indicates that it's 1066 but after a reboot, it is no longer? Dunno

In the mean time I remounted everything, I need to figure out a way to get this IHS OFF! The bonding material is too great, for even a razor blade it seems. Any suggestions? I want it OFF, real bad. I've done 478's and A64's, and the blade always goes in like butter.

My IHS came of easy with a stanley knife.

[Cornelious0_0]

It's interesting to see temps like this with the Ultra-120 Extreme installed.

Under load my CPU is only running at 1.312v and is clocked at 3.2GHz, but hits load temps in the 70C to 75C range using TAT/Orthos. Considering this is basically stock voltage and not clocked very much higher then an X6800 it's strange to see temps this/that high, unless reviews such as Anandtech's of the Ultra-120 weren't done with proper temp monitoring.

The thing that makes me think I'll benefit from the Ultra-120 is that even at stock clocks I hit load temps just shy of 70C...and that seems like a little much for a 1.8GHz C2D IMO.

Hopefully you figure something out, and hopefully I can expect temps less then 70C with the Ultra-120 Extreme installed on my current setup, because I'm anctious for 3.6GHz also, and with 3.2GHz 24/7 stable at less then stock voltage I have every confidence that I can do 3.6GHz with the proper cooling.

Sorry to hijack the thread, but this relates perfectly to what I'm working with, and I was hoping to see temps better then this from the Ultra-120.

[Okda]

the ultra can't do anything if the ihs is concave to much and i think it is the cause in his case

[Cornelious0_0]

Hopefully that's the cause and also is what's hurting me...as I'm getting 72C load temps with Orthos/TAT with the stock cooler @ 1.312v load and 3.2GHz on my E4300. Granted it's the stock cooler, but the IHS will not remain un-lapped for much longer.

[taco]

I've lost my ambition to remove the IHS, for some reason. Mostly due to selling it soon. I will lap the heatsink and IHS though, sometime next week.

My overclock is probably limited to this PSU, or Mobo or both. The vcore just doesn't hold solid. But for 110 dollars, settling with a 1.6GHz overclock and being that the entire system was under 500, I can't complain.

July is the price cut, 250 dollar quad cores, it's not too far off. Those x3210's may even be closer to 200 dollars.

Hopefully you figure something out, and hopefully I can expect temps less then 70C with the Ultra-120 Extreme installed on my current setup, because I'm anctious for 3.6GHz also, and with 3.2GHz 24/7 stable at less then stock voltage I have every confidence that I can do 3.6GHz with the proper cooling.

You should be able to hit 3.4-3.5 with ease, with the 120 Extreme.

[Cornelious0_0]

I doubt I'll be removing mine either...but I need to find out somehow if my E4300 has a TjMax of 85C or 100C so I can find out with version of Core Temp is correct with my temps, as one is based on 85C TjMax and one is based on 100C TjMax for this chip.

[sofarfrome]

I say LAP job is needed!!!

I 2nd the need for a lap job. I have had no less than 8 intel CPUs over the last several months that needed the IHS lapped as they were terribly concave,

[ri3eboi]

My E4300 also runs extremely hot....

Vcore in BIOS 1.425 on P5B Deluxe. With Big Typhoon I get 38 Idle and 70C Orthos. With the new Gemin II I just installed today, I get 36 Idle and 68 Orthos . Temp reported by Core Temp 0.95 Tjunction 100C.

The C rise from idle to Orthos is scary, is this normal on the C2D?

[Okda]

ya normal with cpu with stock ihs that maybe concave or convex

lapp it

[Cornelious0_0]

My E4300 also runs extremely hot....

Vcore in BIOS 1.425 on P5B Deluxe. With Big Typhoon I get 38 Idle and 70C Orthos. With the new Gemin II I just installed today, I get 36 Idle and 68 Orthos . Temp reported by Core Temp 0.95 Tjunction 100C.

The C rise from idle to Orthos is scary, is this normal on the C2D?

Check out this thread towards the end and you'll see that there are L2 revision E4300's that have a tJunction of 85C...and some with 100C. It is possible to do low clock/voltage testing (again, check out the thread) to unofficially determine what variant your CPU is and whether or not TAT and Core Temp 0.95 are correct for your CPU.

[ri3eboi]

Hey Cornelious, thanks for the link.

I read through the thread, and did some testing myself, and I am fairly convinced that my E4300 uses 85C as the Tjunction. I bought it 3 weeks ago from Fry's.

Outside temp in San Diego is 17C currently, and my room temp should be around 20 to 22C.

200 x 7 = 1400 mhz @ 1.275vcore, Idle temp:
CoreTemp 0.95: 40/38C
TAT: 43/39C.

200 x 7 = 1400 mhz @ 1.275vcore, Orthos Small FFT temp:
CoreTemp 0.95: 49/48C
TAT: 49/47C.

300 x 9 = 2700 mhz @ 1.325vcore, Idle temp:
CoreTemp 0.95: 45/40C
TAT: 45/40C.

300 x 9 = 2700 mhz @ 1.325vcore, Orthos Small FFT temp:
CoreTemp 0.95: 61/61C
TAT: 61/60C.

So if my E4300 is 100C Tjunction, then with my GeminII and Typhoon, my cpu's idle temp when undervolted is 18 to 20C above room temp, I don't think that is possible. I am 90% certain my HS and CPU are making contact, because I re-mounted it after mounting with AS5 on to check contact, and found the center not touching, so I added a little dab of AS5 in the center and remounted with a bit more pressure.

Core Temp 0.94 is reporting 28C/25C idle temp for my E4300 @ 1.325v with 85C Tjunction, which is way more reasonable.

[Cornelious0_0]

Congrats on the 85C tJunction...just be sure to hand out the link to anyone else you can to help out...as I've found it to be a huge help myself.

[Ad1tya]

My E4300 runs surprisingly cool! Lol..

Using Stock Box cooler on it for now, as my WC is being redone..

I get 45-46C Load @ 2.9 Ghz @ 1.37vCore.
When it was on my Water Cooling, I was running it at 3.3Ghz @ 1.44vCore and Load temps were 41C Loaded.

TJunction shows 85C.

Non Lapped IHS. I checked the IHS though, and it was very slightly concave.

I guess I have good luck with CPU IHS's, but terrible luck with Stepping.
I just cant believe my former E6600 L629B, did 3.6Ghz only at 1.46-1.47vCore, and nothing above that. The Chip was cool too btw!... Lol..

[Speederlander]

It's interesting to see temps like this with the Ultra-120 Extreme installed.

My ultra had a very convex base. I suspect many people with ultras and bad temps need a few hours lapping.

Also, the mobo picture frame actuating mechanism can sometimes mess with the best possible contact.

[Cornelious0_0]

My E4300 runs surprisingly cool! Lol..

Using Stock Box cooler on it for now, as my WC is being redone..

I get 45-46C Load @ 2.9 Ghz @ 1.37vCore.
When it was on my Water Cooling, I was running it at 3.3Ghz @ 1.44vCore and Load temps were 41C Loaded.

TJunction shows 85C.

Non Lapped IHS. I checked the IHS though, and it was very slightly concave.

I guess I have good luck with CPU IHS's, but terrible luck with Stepping.
I just cant believe my former E6600 L629B, did 3.6Ghz only at 1.46-1.47vCore, and nothing above that. The Chip was cool too btw!... Lol..

It may show tJunction as being 85C, but that's just because that's what 0.94 Core Temp is pre-programmed to "guess" at. If you load 0.95 Core Temp with an L2 revision E4300 it'll be "guessing" at 100C tJunction. Some E4300's and E4400's have a tJunction of 85C and some are 100C, but there's no way to detect it (apparently) so the latest version of Core Temp just "guesses" at 100C just in case.

There is however a way that you can test for, and prove whether you have a tJunction of 85C or 100C.

You'll notice that 0.95 Core Temp reports temps being ~15C higher then 0.94 with most L2 revision C2D chips. What you need to do is lower your E4300's clock to 200x6 if possible and drop the vcore to 1.0v - 1.1v. At these "handicapped" settings the CPU puts out next to no heat, and it's actually possible for it to get ridiculously close to room temperature on idle even with the stock cooler. Check your idle temps with both 0.94 and 0.95 Core Temp with your CPU @ 1.2GHz 1.1v and compare the idle temps to your room temperature. The idea here is that if 0.94 reports that you're below ambient temperature by a few degrees or more it's obviously wrong, as that's not possible, but if 0.94 reports that you are within a few degrees of your room temp it is telling the truth, because at this slow speed and low voltage it's not conceivable that the CPU would be running 15C above ambient.

I did the same testing myself and my idle temp with 0.94 was about 4-5C above my room temp...completely normal in this scenario, and confirming the fact that my particular L2 revision E4300 has a tJunction of 85C.

Try it out yourself...it works wonders, and I'll be posting up a bit of a summary/write up soon on the same topic, but the original credits are to a copule friends at [H] who did the research.

Here's the original thread.

[Coffee29]

Cornelious:

I am by no means an expert on overclocking or the core 2 duo chips, but I am an astute researcher. I had similar concerns on my temps ranging 15 degrees depending on program. Speedfan and coretemp 94 use an 85C tjunction and coretemp 95 and TAT use a 100C tjunction. It did not take long to realize something was wrong with this picture, I read the documentation and the intel forums concerning the DTS diode on these chips and I suggest you do the same. Bottom line:

1. Desktop core 2 duo's (quads may be excluded Im not sure) DO NOT HAVE tjunctions. Only mobile core 2 duos have tjunctions.
2. TAT assumes a 100 tjunction BECAUSE TAT is designed for mobile core2duo's, NOT desktop ones. It's right there in TAT's documentation.
3. Intel techs have responded to this query and the only way to tell temperature on desktop core 2 duo's is by using the DTS. Coretemp 95 can be switched in settings to read DTS and I suggest you make the change. It will still read x degrees celsius to tjunction (however tjunction should be replaced with TCC). As long as you stay above 20-30 C DTS you should be ok.
If I am wrong about this please provide some info. However, exclude any links to the temperature guide or similar forums because the documentation from intel contradicts what these peeps are saying...

DTS is the only tool we can use for these chips.

[Cornelious0_0]

You might get a little bit out of this thread...really helped me out a lot.

Basically, if you're able to clock your E4300 down to 200x6 and lower the voltage to about 1.1v the CPU puts out next to no heat, and it's entirely possible that your idle temps could be within 5C or your room temp. If you do the testing and find your idle temp 15C higher then your room temp then Core Temp 0.95 and TAT are wrong, and you should be looking at Core Temp 0.94 or Speedfan. On the opposite end of things, if Core Temp 0.94 report temps below your room temp then you need to be going by 0.95/TAT.

Testing doesn't take too long, but it does help a lot...only works this way with air cooling though, with water cooling you'd be comparing idle temp to water temp I think, but for air cooling this testing works great.