Frustration with Brisbane & DFI UltraII-M2

[rivers]

Hi there. I lost the last of grain of hope but who knows, maybe I'm simply dumb and I'm missing something in the BIOS. Ok let begin from the start. I'm new to AMD, I sold 2 weeks ago my good old Dothan/AGP system and bought a cheap 3600+ windsor with an ASUS M2N-E SLI for veryvery cheap. The mobo was stable but sucked very hard on the OC side. So I sold the windsor+mobo to a friend for ten bucks less than I paid it, and bought a 3600+ brisbane with a DFI Infinity UltraII-M2.

I liked the board on paper (and pictures), very smart layout, tons, TONS of bios settings. Maybe a little too much for an intel/asus guy like me. The board seems to have good reviews too.

First I tried the brisbane on the M2N-E, what I had was a very stable 2.5/2.6 at default (w/ relaxed HT and DDR2). Nice. Then I plugged everything on the DFI, for the record a SATA RAID0 array, 2*1GB cheap Kingston 667, 8600GT powered by a 450W Coolermaster. And the nightmare started. I don't know if I'm missing something stupid, but I can't almost clock the brisb anywhere without black screens and beeps.

The FSB wall is at 295MHz (w/ chipset @ 1.6v), I tried it with a low CPU multi, relaxed DDR2 and HT (SATA RAID maybe? but I can't even POST -.-, I don't have an OS loading error that seems more an indication of a SATA failure).

DDR wall? should be DDR840 or something, with non aggressive voltages (1.9v).

HT wall? I don't know, I never set the HT multiplier over the stock freq (1GHz) and always run at low multis.

CPU wall? Nope! I had the same brisbane at 2.6 at stock default on the M2N-E SLI and now I can't even set 233 of FSB!!

So what I'm doing wrong? I'm using the DDR400/533 divisor with 5-5-5 and sky high Tras and Trc. I'm using ludicrously low HT frequencies. I've tested the possible limiting factors and all I get is a black screen or beeps.

Suggestions? Don't tell me is the PSU, cause it worked with much much higher loads in the past without any problems, and the system I have is quite simple.
Tnx in advance.

PS
yes, I've the latest BIOS.

[informal]

I can (with some certainty) pinpoint you problem right now:it's in your RAM modules.To be more precise :Kingston.I have Kingston VR533(easily does 900Mhz cas 3 @ 2.2V,Elpida IC),but my Brisby 3600+ locks at 2700Mhz with ram at 533 divider(running at 383Mhz,cas 4).Since i know this ram can get to 450( at 2700Mhz and 667 Mhz divider,it should ran at 450 exactly),i cant make it stable,no matter how much volts i put through the chip(1.55 tried).Its stable at 1.46V,2700Mhz,DDR2-766 cas 4@2.05V. Chip can go to the 2.8Ghz with 1.52Vcore and ram is still severely underclocked at 400Mhz and still not stable(mem test crashes!!!)
All this on somewhat buggy MSI K9N Ultra-2F mobo(the one with the shutdown,IDE etc problems )

So my conclusion:Brisbane mem. controller is not much in love with Kingston mem modules.Try some Corsair Value 533/677,or Transcend modules.
Try other mem. brands at least to find out if the memory is holding you down.That is what i would do in your place.

Cheers!

[Lightman]

If not done yet, disable all Spread Spectrum options in BIOS!
That was 'it' holding my OC on MSI mobo

[informal]

On my mobo,all spread spectrums are disabled from day one.Couldn't past the lowly 220Mhz on the HTT with them on.

[rivers]

Tnx for the answer Informal. Tomorrow I'll try another pair of DDRII, but I'm not much confident about that because with the brisb@1.9GHz the kingston is stable right now at DDR800. I spent the evening trying everything, and I think I never cleared the CMOS so many times in my life. The best I could get from this Brisbane from the DFI is a simply ridiculous 220MHz FSB. Something like 2050Mhz.

I tried DDR400, DDR533, the lowest mem timings, the not-so-lowest mem timings, 3x HT, 4x HT, 5x HT, 1.4v & 1.35v on cpu even if it wasn't necessary, 1.9v on the ram even if not necessary, 1.6v on the NB even if not necessary, verified the heatsink installation on both CPU and NB, moved the mem on banks 3-4. Absolutely N O T H I N G. Blank and/or beeps.

[informal]

Let us know what you managed with other memory brands.Remember,avoid Kingston and Kingmax(if you can).
Try some Crucial,Transcend,OCZ.
Some memory modules are not in love at all with AMD.
Also,another question:did you try other versions of BIOS?Maybe you have an early/buggy version of bios for Brisbane?And all spread spectrums are off in BIOS?

PS Do you have a friend with AM2 mobo where you can test the CPU alone?Maybe an extremely unlikely possibility,but the CPU could be a dud for OCing (one in a 1000).

edit
maybe will help: http://www.diy-street.com/forum/showthread.php?t=63030

[dice]

Pump CPU volts a bit more, might have some droop compared to your old board? Have you plugged in the floppy power (shouldn't really need it, I never have noticed a difference but worth a try if not already done).

For high HTT you shouldn't need to raise NB volts at all with this board. If there's a problem with high HTT, it won't be due to nb voltage.

[rivers]

Believe it or not, the latest bios which says "fixed Brisbane o.c." did exactly the contrary, it was actually screwing my Brisbane o.c.
I get back to the februrary BIOS which still support the Brisb and I could boot at 2.2/233 with 533 divisor (it doesn't like the 400, which cause a BSOD while loading the OS). I'll keep you updated.

[rivers]

update:
I flashed again the march BIOS, and for some reasons I can't understand now I can reach 2.5GHz (wow -.-°). The very max I can get from this combo is 2527MHz, 266 of FSB with 3x HTT, Vcore 1.40, NFcore 1.60 and Vram 1.90 with DDR400. If set a lower vcore or a higher multiplier the system dosn't POST, beeps or cause BSOD in the OS. If I set a higher (275) FSB I got beeps.

I've yet to try another pair of rams but I don't know if it makes any sense. With the brisb @ stock the DDR800 is very stable. So my question is there are known issues of the A64 mem controller associated with strange ram divisors, like 6 or 7 (DDR400 & DDR533)?

[TEDY]

this is very bad ocing if you ask me :p

try another proc....

[informal]

Yep,there are issues with DDR400 and DDR533 dividers..
Try some other modules.

PS I managed to use the freaking DDR667 divider at 2700Mhz and it now works??? Wtf..When i was testing before it wasnt stable,now it works like a charm,memory is at 450Mhz(DDR2-900)..LoL

[rivers]

Yep, it's ridiculous, I'm having the same OC I had on the M2N-E with everything @stock, but with the DFI I have to overvolt the cpu to 1.40, the chipset to 1.6 and the ram to 1.9!! It's insane. Impossible. I'll try another pair of DDR, I already found a buyer for this Kingstone... but wtf I could have spent my money on a E6320 and a P5B-E and lived in peace.

What about a team elite 667 CL4 module? Is it any good?

[informal]

Yep try Team Elite(better if you can test them before purchase ).
I think it's not the 65nm Brisbane's "fault" for these issues.It's purely mobo manufacturers not holding on to the reference designs and putting out crappy non tested/optimized bioses out there.My 2 cents.

Ahh the eternal question :should i go intel.I must admit it's tempting ,but i wouldn't trade my 65nm cpu with IMC(and smoothness in multitasking) for nothing from intel(ahh well maybe for some cheapo quad core ).

Tell us what you managed to do with the new ram.

[tictac]

try tweak the drive strength memory controller with systool

change the:
odt drv
cmd drv
memclck drv

max it out

[Corsa]

2007 The Best value Dual-core platform~ 65nm AM2 X2 3600+ (air cooling) 3150MHz!!!
Originally posted there by windwithme and he says

Kingston DDRII 667 512MB x 2(USD$73)
It adopts the most popular chip “Hynix Y5”. I’ve seen some review report
about this modual that the score can be reached DDRII 1000 above (seems
all under Intel platform). In AM2 environment, when you set the FSB at 200,
then DDRII800 1T can be run steady. But, I’m not AM2 platform to do so.
Because when the CPU FSB has been raised up, the DRAM ratio you’d never
set them back to normal again(cannot be reboot) Maybe this is a “single
issue”, but I luckily experienced that… after all, I change that with KingMax
DDRII 667, it has no problem at all.

[rivers]

2007 The Best value Dual-core platform~ 65nm AM2 X2 3600+ (air cooling) 3150MHz!!!
Originally posted there by windwithme and he says

Damn!!! Thanks for the excellent link, I must be blind, I made a search and I missed this post.

BTW, tomorrow I'll buy a couple of Team Group Elite DDR667 CL4, and we'll see... -.-°

[Mikemes878]

I have the Infinity sli -m2 which is just the Sli board basically the same thing. When i first got the board i couldn't get the cpu above 2.5. I tried everything, it wasn't till i got the beta bios i was able to go higher. I think it will be another bios or two before they get the bios working right for these motherboards. Then you can really find out what your cpu is capable of. Just my 2 cents

[rivers]

Oki, that's the update I promised. I've basically traded the Kingston value for a Team Elite 667 CL4 for a couple of bucks more, just like I traded the old 3600+ windsor and the M2N-E SLI. It started like a cheap system but I spent much than I thought and for 30 bucks more I could have bought a C2D system.

So, what happened with the Team Elite? Let's start with the first impressions. The memory is well packaged and the brand seems to have a good reputation, it's cheap and has a good performance but the heat spreader is useless. First, it's golden, second, it's attached with bi-adesive non conductive tape, third, as consequence of point two, there's absolutely NO PRESSURE between the HS and memory chips, that translated in BAD thermal conductivity, that translate in potential heat insulation. Fourth, the module is hard to install in the slot, you don't know how to hold it, the HS is not clipped between the two sides and... ok, it's enough.

Performance? It goes better than Kingston, definitely. But not that much. The DDR533 works only at very very low FSB speeds. DDR400 is the only solution with >233 FSB speeds. The maximum stable overclock with non-extreme voltage I had is 2.75GHz/290 with 1.40/1.90/1.60 of CPU/MEM/NB voltages. Nothing to be proud of. Even with higher voltage I couldn't stabilize higher frequencies (stock AMD cooling).

That's it. The memory divisor bug/wall seems to be still there. At least with this mobo, this BIOS and this memory.

[Corsa]

What load temps are u getting @2.7Ghz? ...& if u could change ur mind, would u have gone a different route ? ..I have relative wanting me to build a similar system for them.

[rivers]

What load temps are u getting @2.7Ghz? ...& if u could change ur mind, would u have gone a different route ? ..I have relative wanting me to build a similar system for them.

The temp reading I got is totally unreliable. A different route? Yes, definitely. I started with the idea of building the cheapest dual core system that I could. The problem started when I changed the mobo for the DFI and all the headache started. The NB fan is noisy and the oc behaviours are unpredictable. After another day of testing I found the most stable spot at a mere 2.55GHz, but with stock cooling and Vcore (2.70/300 and 2.60/300 gives me random RAID0 corruption).

I thought I could resist to buy a core duo, but now I realize that I'm not satisfied at all. I mean, the system is stable, smooth, but with a E4300 and P5B-E you have at least 3ghz ensured, without stressing any components and a passive northbridge with a nice HP design.

[TEDY]

WHAT REVISION of mobo do you have...i got AC0