DDC-2 Dies

[BigRollTide1]

when I came back home today and turned the pc on (has been off for a few hours) the pump wouldn't come on until I whacked it a few times. So it's not a heat related thing

Good thing I got that training in the Navy or I wouldn't know what to do!

Waiting for PTS to open up and see if I can get any help...

Would a miniNG help with this?

[JeffnWV]

no no, it was off all morning and when I came back to turn it on the pump wouldn't come on.

the pc is on the desk now with it's side off and a light on itand will remain that way as long as a DDC pump is in it. IOW, I keeping an eye on it

[BigRollTide1]

But I thought the miniNG helped with the startup of laing pumps with some kind of 8 second delay.

[Terryb47]

I start to wonder the failure rate... seems too many?

they say 5% (the retailers)

it may seems like a few dozens broke down here, but that's not the case.
through these 9 pages I think there's like 5-10 people with broken DDC pump.

[septim]

stalling starting ddc is not really the same as broken burnt out ddc.
i've had mine for 6months now, its just sometimes when turn on pc it stalls, off and on again and it works fine, with or without tapping.

[JeffnWV]

But I thought the miniNG helped with the startup of laing pumps with some kind of 8 second delay.

It already has a built in delay like 3 seconds? ...I'm assuming it's because of initial power demand by all system components.

But I DO have a 1 KW PSU...I'm sure this thing yawns at the demand, when I turn the pwr switch on

[Terryb47]

Gah, I must be the unluckiest guy in the world:

number of DDC2+Petra top owned: 2
number of DDC2+Petra top died: 2



I've wasted $130 already on theses Laings, first $100 then when my first one died I had to ship it back to the US which cost me $30

Now I don't even know if I can get a replacement anymore...
I sure as hell don't feel like wasting $160 in total on one pump that should have 5% faillure rate. I mean come on, how big is the chance to get a faulty one TWICE.

yeah, I feel like crying now...

[gabe]

they say 5% (the retailers)

it may seems like a few dozens broke down here, but that's not the case.
through these 9 pages I think there's like 5-10 people with broken DDC pump.

please read: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...&postcount=114

[hecktic]

please read: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...&postcount=114

Thanks and that is actually more of a reassurance to buy a D5 rather than a DDC2... mainly due to that last line you said in that link.

[hecktic]

Gah, I must be the unluckiest guy in the world:

number of DDC2+Petra top owned: 2
number of DDC2+Petra top died: 2



I've wasted $130 already on theses Laings, first $100 then when my first one died I had to ship it back to the US which cost me $30

Now I don't even know if I can get a replacement anymore...
I sure as hell don't feel like wasting $160 in total on one pump that should have 5% faillure rate. I mean come on, how big is the chance to get a faulty one TWICE.

yeah, I feel like crying now...

damm i am very sorry to hear that... I hope you at least get a replacement DDC3 now..

[nealh]

please read: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...&postcount=114

HMMM...lets see 90% of the RMA pumps are ok..so 10% of the RMA's are truly bad...but still a bit hard to tell what number are being returned, to determine what the failure rate is

but lets assume this thread is close...so assume worst case 20% ....the failure rate would be 2%

DDC2 seems to have a starting issue...not sure why this would be...people with the dead pump that you hit and it starts ...is it on its on 4pin molex with no other peripherals?

Also what are thepumps resting on...the bottoms do get warms..I would think resting on a gel pad might not be good

I feel "lucky" my pump is still working OK...it was purchased about 18mo from Laing directly I beleive(I bought off a trader who never used it)

I have placed small furniture pad discs...at each corner to raise it up and allow a little airflow...I have no idea if this does anything

[sick_g4m3r]

too many potential DDC issues to even bother with them now that the 3.2 is mainstream. D5 FTW

[ranker]

too many potential DDC issues to even bother with them now that the 3.2 is mainstream. D5 FTW

1% failure rate and the person in charge of a company that handles RMA's stated that the failure rates are the same.

This is pretty consistent with what I stated in the other thread. DDC's are by far the most popular and most sold pumps. With such a large volume, they're bound to have failures in proportion to the volume sold. You also have to consider that XS members tend to gravitate toward the best performing pump. Couple those two things together and you'll see a possible explanation for why we see more complaints about DDC failures.

Ex: 100,000 DDC's are sold with a 1% reported failure rate = 1000 failures
10,000 D5's are sold with a 1% reported failure rate = 100 failures

Say that about 1/10 of failed pumps belong to a vocal owner (after many years as a congressional intern, we're taught that every angry letter from a constituent means 10 other people feel the same way but are too lazy to write).

1000 failed DDC's x 10% = 100 posts on XS about a horrible DDC death
100 failed D5's x 10% = 10 posts on XS that are drowned out by very vocal DDC owners.

In conclusion, with Gabe's reporting, the DDC failure rate might be the same as the D5's. However, due to the popularity of the pump and the nature of the this forum, we just tend to believe it fails a lot more than it does.

[Terryb47]

Thanks for pointing to that thread Gabe, but both my dead DDC2s had a fried circuitboard, both times failed at startup.

Sidewinders was so nice to RMA the thing again, so in total it has cost me me $160 so far for one pump (!) and no guarantee that my next pump will work properly - yeah I'm really paranoid now whereas I used to keep my main rig running 24/7, I don't do that anymore. thanks to my bad experience with theses DDC2

I'm getting a D5 this time, I'll be damned to get another DDC2 EVER again.
I just wish I was more lucky...

[hecktic]

1% failure rate and the person in charge of a company that handles RMA's stated that the failure rates are the same.

This is pretty consistent with what I stated in the other thread. DDC's are by far the most popular and most sold pumps. With such a large volume, they're bound to have failures in proportion to the volume sold. You also have to consider that XS members tend to gravitate toward the best performing pump. Couple those two things together and you'll see a possible explanation for why we see more complaints about DDC failures.

Ex: 100,000 DDC's are sold with a 1% reported failure rate = 1000 failures
10,000 D5's are sold with a 1% reported failure rate = 100 failures

Say that about 1/10 of failed pumps belong to a vocal owner (after many years as a congressional intern, we're taught that every angry letter from a constituent means 10 other people feel the same way but are too lazy to write).

1000 failed DDC's x 10% = 100 posts on XS about a horrible DDC death
100 failed D5's x 10% = 10 posts on XS that are drowned out by very vocal DDC owners.

In conclusion, with Gabe's reporting, the DDC failure rate might be the same as the D5's. However, due to the popularity of the pump and the nature of the this forum, we just tend to believe it fails a lot more than it does.

Well we will see... I have 6 D5s on the way in transit to me. Out of a random 6 from a batch of a 100 or so Id say there should theoretically be some chance of a bad unit in either one of these 6.

[[XC] flat-four]

I'm just now getting my main rig up and running since my ddc2 died on me. I got about 3 months out of it before it started needing a good tap to get it started. This rig was running @ 100%, 24/7 crunching for our World Community Grid team, so I don't know if this had anything to do with it. If this one dies on me, its time to bite the bullet and move to an Iwaki. Its very frustrating to have to have a rig down for a few weeks to wait for a RMA.

So if only 10% are defective, what is the real cause for the failures. I can't imagine that the other 90% of RMA's are due to user error. Other than the failure, I have been very pleased with the performance of my ddc2, and hopefully the new one will prove to be a reliable one and lighting won't strike twice.

[nealh]

I'm just now getting my main rig up and running since my ddc2 died on me. I got about 3 months out of it before it started needing a good tap to get it started. This rig was running @ 100%, 24/7 crunching for our World Community Grid team, so I don't know if this had anything to do with it. If this one dies on me, its time to bite the bullet and move to an Iwaki. Its very frustrating to have to have a rig down for a few weeks to wait for a RMA.

So if only 10% are defective, what is the real cause for the failures. I can't imagine that the other 90% of RMA's are due to user error. Other than the failure, I have been very pleased with the performance of my ddc2, and hopefully the new one will prove to be a reliable one and lighting won't strike twice.

Of the the RMA 90% were not defective per GAbe(now I am not sure who the users were and not sure what they claimed as failure related issue..but Marci's says you cant weed out the idiot factor...so who knows..plugged it in wrong, ran no water in pump before starting...)

10% of the RMA were really defective....so maybe this is the XS crowd ....most here should know a real death of a pump

I have D5/MCP655 that one day did not start...took a few minutes to realize my BSOD/Lockups were from the pump not starting..cant hear the pump in my P180 when on setting 3....I turned everything off..cpu temps hit 70s+....

I used older 250w PSU to test the pump and started right away...switched to another 4pin molex with nothing else sharing the lead off the Powerstream 520wpsu...it worked fine again for months

switched to my DDC2 w/ petra top orginial in Jan/Feb and it has been running ok...and I keep it on its own powerlead off my HX620

so I have no idea if this was a weird pump issue, psu issue or bad 4 pin molex???
stil have MCP655 and it works fine..one time issue and never again... my backup pump

[SiGfever]

When they say 90% aren't bad, how did they test them? Were the pumps run restricted (as in a normal loop), did they run them for a couple of hours to see if the problem took a little run time to show up?

If the DDC-2 was SO reliable why don't they make it anymore? Why did they replace it with a lower performing model?

[sick_g4m3r]

1% failure rate and the person in charge of a company that handles RMA's stated that the failure rates are the same.

This is pretty consistent with what I stated in the other thread. DDC's are by far the most popular and most sold pumps. With such a large volume, they're bound to have failures in proportion to the volume sold. You also have to consider that XS members tend to gravitate toward the best performing pump. Couple those two things together and you'll see a possible explanation for why we see more complaints about DDC failures.

Ex: 100,000 DDC's are sold with a 1% reported failure rate = 1000 failures
10,000 D5's are sold with a 1% reported failure rate = 100 failures

Say that about 1/10 of failed pumps belong to a vocal owner (after many years as a congressional intern, we're taught that every angry letter from a constituent means 10 other people feel the same way but are too lazy to write).

1000 failed DDC's x 10% = 100 posts on XS about a horrible DDC death
100 failed D5's x 10% = 10 posts on XS that are drowned out by very vocal DDC owners.

In conclusion, with Gabe's reporting, the DDC failure rate might be the same as the D5's. However, due to the popularity of the pump and the nature of the this forum, we just tend to believe it fails a lot more than it does.

the DDCs are NOT that much more popular than the D5s, not ten times at all. my guess is they are very close to even. there are many WCers out there not on this forum that see the high GPH of the D5 and grab it over the DDC.

[nealh]

When they say 90% aren't bad, how did they test them? Were the pumps run restricted (as in a normal loop), did they run them for a couple of hours to see if the problem took a little run time to show up?

If the DDC-2 was SO reliable why don't they make it anymore? Why did they replace it with a lower performing model?

excellent point..I have no disagreement with this is as a possible reason..too much performance killing the pumps..however someone posted(not sure if here or elsewhere)..that supposedly the pump change may have to do with it meeting certain EU standards and nothing to do with reliability of the DDC2 vs DDC 3.2

[ranker]

the DDCs are NOT that much more popular than the D5s, not ten times at all. my guess is they are very close to even. there are many WCers out there not on this forum that see the high GPH of the D5 and grab it over the DDC.

Hank from PPCS said that the DDC outsells the D5 at an 11 to 1 ratio at his store. Quoc from Petra's stated that he sells many more DDC's than D5's. I'll have to get a formal number from him on Monday. All I need are the numbers from Jab-tech and DD and we'll basically cover 90% of the major WC'ing retailers within the US. Hopefully then we'll see how much more popular the DDC is over the D5.