Apogee GTX

[IanY]

Let's put things into perspective. We're talking about the pinnacle of an intensively competitive market, with lots of compelling products. There is some level of product differentiation butr not enough to greatly affect consumer choices. Up to some point, demand is also generally inelastic relative to pricing. As far as brand loyalty, D-Tek is not a newcomer to the industry, but its claim to fame is a relatively new event. I guess there is little to no brand loyalty among hardware enthusiasts, I guess besides me lol

On a 50 degree base load temp, a 3 C difference is the equivalent of a 6% absolute improvement, and who know how much when comparing block relative to block. A 5 C load difference, if attainable, is the same as a bases-loaded home run as far as I'm concerned.

So far, I'm not seeing 5 C differences but I am definitely seeing 3C differences, noting that the D-Tek FuZion and the Apogee GT are basically on par with each other.

[NaeKuh]

Let's put things into perspective. We're talking about the pinnacle of an intensively competitive market, with lots of compelling products. There is some level of product differentiation butr not enough to greatly affect consumer choices. Up to some point, demand is also generally inelastic relative to pricing. As far as brand loyalty, D-Tek is not a newcomer to the industry, but its claim to fame is a relatively new event. I guess there is little to no brand loyalty among hardware enthusiasts, I guess besides me lol

On a 50 degree base load temp, a 3 C difference is the equivalent of a 6% absolute improvement, and who know how much when comparing block relative to block. A 5 C load difference, if attainable, is the same as a bases-loaded home run as far as I'm concerned.

So far, I'm not seeing 5 C differences but I am definitely seeing 3C differences, noting that the D-Tek FuZion and the Apogee GT are basically on par with each other.

i wanna make an assumption. It might not be correct, so dont flame me for it.

But from what i noticed, is my d-tek seems to have a max performance on flow. Meaning, if i crank my pumps up more, i get hardly any beneifits in temps. But on the apogeeGTX, its more senstive to flow.

Either way, both are great blocks. I have both, i use both. Well the GTX is stilling on my desk, but i may swap out my cr.. i mean apogee... *looking at gabe break his pencil* for the GTX in some future.

But anyhow, any chances of a petlier swap on the MCW-6500T??? Im sure your also interested in this too iany. The 226W wont be enough for a quad core according to all the pro's over at the TEC forum.

[IanY]

i wanna make an assumption. It might not be correct, so dont flame me for it.

But from what i noticed, is my d-tek seems to have a max performance on flow. Meaning, if i crank my pumps up more, i get hardly any beneifits in temps. But on the apogeeGTX, its more senstive to flow.

Either way, both are great blocks. I have both, i use both. Well the GTX is stilling on my desk, but i may swap out my cr.. i mean apogee... *looking at gabe break his pencil* for the GTX in some future.

But anyhow, any chances of a petlier swap on the MCW-6500T??? Im sure your also interested in this too iany. The 226W wont be enough for a quad core according to all the pro's over at the TEC forum.

You are correct. Me adding more pumping power really does very little for the D-Tek Fuzion. On the other hand, if I were to use a MCP655/D5 pump and turn it down to the "1" setting, the GT/GTX would suffer; well, so would the FuZion, but I think you got my point.

Regarding the 226W peltier, I have no used the MCW6500T so I mustn't comment on what I don't have first hand experience.

PhillyBoy tells me that someone has brought his Kentsfield up to 3.9 Ghz fully stable (ie, not just for suicide runs) with the MCW6500T. That is extremely impressive and I am envious.

On the other hand, there are a lot of people b-ing and moaning about how inadequate the 226W is. One notable person is the XS member in the TEC section that cannot get his E6600 to 4 Ghz. Granted, it isn't as though anyone issued a guaranty of 4.0 Ghz for any cpu lol

The problem with a 436W TEC for example is that the Meanwell S320 is no longer useful. And, if members in the TEC section are right, if a high quality PSU like a PC Power & Cooling 1kW-SR will burn up its wires supporting such a TEC, what other appealing options are there?

[NaeKuh]

*sigh*.... guess im staying with water....

[VaguelyAmused]

For best performance they must be bowed. With a flat base they are (at a guess, flat versions going in test bed this week) 2-3C worse.

nikhsub1 and others, am I right in thinking that the reason the Apogee GT's and GTX's are bowed is to increase the thermal bond between the waterblock and the area of the IHS on the Processor that is above the hottest part of the cores in a Quad Core (and Core2Duo?), and helps because it goes some way to overcoming the non-flat surface of the IHS?

If so, would it be true that if the IHS and waterblock were lapped suitably, that the bowing of the GT's and GTX's would not help decrease temperatures any further, or is there likely to still be some benefit gained from bowing? I presume it stands for both Quad and Dual Core.

Cheers, and hi to everyone. In the process of putting together a shopping list for my first watercooled attempt, so it will be interesting to see if there is a "clear" winner out of the latest and greatest water blocks.

Keep up the good work guys!

[phelan1777]

Welcome to XS!

[IanY]

You are correct if you really believe that you can lap your IHS perfectly flat. I have no such confidence in my abilities. Shiny does not necessarily equal flat.

There most probably be no clear winner in any of these showdowns. Results are for all the interpret, and more likely than not, all sides will claim victory in some form or another.

[nikhsub1]

VaguelyAmused, the bowed base is creating more mount pressure between base of block and IHS. The apogee GT's base will deflect, even when bowed. I would imagine that the bowed base once mounted with say 50lbs of pressure would become almost flat against the IHS. A non bowed apogee would likely become somewhat concave when mounted do to flex.

We all have to remember that a bowed base is a one way street. Once you bow that sucker and mount it, you must keep it that way else the base is ruined (read never again flat). The apogee is not the only block that can be bowed either, any square block can be bowed - all bowing is is altering the pressure geometry between IHS and base.

[IanY]

I can attest to Nikhsub1's statement that bowing is a one way street. I have tried re-installing the low profile washer and the temps were a disaster.

[VaguelyAmused]

I like these forums cheers for the quick replies guys.

IanY, first attempt at metal lapping (after practicing on some scraps first), have figured a telescope mirror before though, but I cannot attest to my skills with metal unfortunately, so for best performance bowing is the way to go with the GT/GTX.

I would tend to agree with you aswell that there will more than likely be no outright winner. However, one factor that could decide it in the D-Tek's favour (for me) is if it offers comparable (+/- 1 or 2 deg) performance to the GTX bowed then it would seem a clear choice as it avoids the required bowing (easy, hassle or otherwise) of the GTX.

nikhsub1, I think I understand the reasoning behind the bowing better now, makes perfect sense. cheers.

And phelan1777, thanks for the welcome

[ziddey]

it's not so much the mirror finish you're after. some have said that that actually starts hurting performance again with that smooth a finish. you're just trying to make the surface totally flat. the experts recommend going up to 800grit, not 2000

[IanY]

I like these forums cheers for the quick replies guys.

IanY, first attempt at metal lapping (after practicing on some scraps first), have figured a telescope mirror before though, but I cannot attest to my skills with metal unfortunately, so for best performance bowing is the way to go with the GT/GTX.

I would tend to agree with you aswell that there will more than likely be no outright winner. However, one factor that could decide it in the D-Tek's favour (for me) is if it offers comparable (+/- 1 or 2 deg) performance to the GTX bowed then it would seem a clear choice as it avoids the required bowing (easy, hassle or otherwise) of the GTX.

nikhsub1, I think I understand the reasoning behind the bowing better now, makes perfect sense. cheers.

And phelan1777, thanks for the welcome

I hope you are aware that the D-Tek comes bowed already.

[_G_]

if this block had a center support it wouldnt need a big convex forced in it.
(take a catchup bottle cap and press the center, no center support means it doesnt stay convex or even flat)

[VaguelyAmused]

IanY, I am now! I'm also aware I have some more reading up on the subject to do, off I go

ziddey thats very interesting, I had planned to order some sandpaper up to 2500grit but will do some digging around and see what the experts are saying

[nikhsub1]

I hope you are aware that the D-Tek comes bowed already.

That is very misleading... the dtek block is not bowed in the way swiftech bows the apogee... it is not due to an oversized o-ring it is more to do with the way the block bolts together - you can't bow or unbow the fuzion... yet.

[gabe]

That is very misleading... the dtek block is not bowed in the way swiftech bows the apogee... it is not due to an oversized o-ring it is more to do with the way the block bolts together - you can't bow or unbow the fuzion... yet.

hmm, one can attempt to relap it (make it flat) like someone I know
but there would be no return to a bowed state I guess

[serialk11r]

but are you designing blocks? Are you working on something different then what is out already.

Those guys are trying for something different.

There is a lot of pride in having something that you DIY.

So think twice before you heckle, because that "rough/ugly, and or "aluminum" block could be the next block you want for your system, and who ever came up with it, will be making money, and some of that money, would come from your pocket.

What we talk about here is not the end all be all of PC/watercooling/OCing just more here take things to the next level and beyond.

WE are all in the same game, just different teams.

[sigh] on Friday I'll show you something...

[_G_]

lol did anyone notice that the review was from 7 years ago( for a slot1/ slocket setup)

[serialk11r]

lol did anyone notice that the review was from 7 years ago( for a slot1/ slocket setup)

Yes...
Now imagine a fuzion going back in time...(OMG!!! MY TEMPS DROPPED 10C AFTER I SWITCHED FROM MY ALUMINUM HOMEMADE BLOCK!!!)

[afireinside]

Ok so you make fun of someone pioneering watercooling 7 years ago before you even knew what a computer was when if it wasn't for those people no one would be watercooling AND you're also making your own block. Oh boy I can't wait to see the lack of ghetto in your design.

[serialk11r]

Ok so you make fun of someone pioneering watercooling 7 years ago before you even knew what a computer was when if it wasn't for those people no one would be watercooling AND you're also making your own block. Oh boy I can't wait to see the lack of ghetto in your design.

lack of ghetto...you asked for it

[ziddey]

Yes...
Now imagine a fuzion going back in time...(OMG!!! MY TEMPS DROPPED 10C AFTER I SWITCHED FROM MY ALUMINUM HOMEMADE BLOCK!!!)

the heat dump wasn't as extreme back then. if the homebade aluminum could move it quick enough, fuzion wouldn't make too much of a difference. then again, aluminum ain't copper so...

[phelan1777]

lack of ghetto...you asked for it

So he said LACK of ghetto, not ghetto fabulous :-P.

[Infa]

hey guys, I'm new here , but i have been reading a lot before becoming a member, and i like this foruom a lot! its becoming a part of me! mostly hang out in swe forums.

but now to the point! , Nikshub1, how is the GTX testing goin? been sitting here and waaaaiting for that numbers :P just cureius (spelling)

[largon]

That website is funny, I see all these ghetto waterblocks and ghetto DIY stuff LMAO.

That site was my source of inspiration 8-9 years ago when I designed my custom block for a SECC PII. Too bad that project didn't come to reality.
Ah, the times, there were no commercial blocks onsale back then...