Apogee GTX

[Bun-Bun]

Yes. Plating is ~the same, but raw material is 2 1/2 times more than Aluminum. Nonetheless, while cost must remain a factor, it is never the primary factor to me. I founded Swiftech on three principles: Performance Quality & Value. This block epitomizes all three principles in my mind.

Nonetheless, one important factor to many of us has been overlooked.

Well since what I said was apprently sooo bad and wrong and such I will just say this...

Goodbye gabe.

[Reinvented]

It looks like a great block.

Gabe, is there a possibility for nickel plated replacement tops being available for those people who would steer clear of the block just because it's aluminum?

[Bun-Bun]

It looks like a great block.

Gabe, is there a possibility for nickel plated replacement tops being available for those people who would steer clear of the block just because it's aluminum?

Hey now theres an idea. Kinda like Northwizard's idea for custom mounts. Have different syles/materials of tops. Would add to the customizability and personality to the blocks and further the market share...

[Hard H20]

I founded Swiftech on three principles: Performance Quality & Value. This block epitomizes all three principles in my mind.

Gabe

In the end that's all that matters. Keep doing what Swiftech has been doing for years, bringing QUALITY products to market for the community. :thumbsup:

I expect this type of bs @ other forums, not going to mention any names [H], but when we have CEO's and Co. Reps posting here answering our questions the least you could do is show some class. Everyone is entitled to an opinion but you don't have to come across like an ass when expressing it.

You don't like the product don't buy it, your choice as a consumer.

[Bun-Bun]

Gabe

In the end that's all that matters. Keep doing what Swiftech has been doing for years, bringing QUALITY products to market for the community. :thumbsup:

I expect this type of bs @ other forums, not going to mention any names [H], but when we have CEO's and Co. Reps posting here answering our questions the least you could do is show some class. Everyone is entitled to an opinion but you don't have to come across like an ass when expressing it.

You don't like the product don't buy it, your choice as a consumer.

But if opinions are not voiced or listened to then that Quality, over time, is lost. And what better place to voice them then where the appropriate representitives are.

[LORD-eX-Bu]

Swiftech, their products and the people that work there have always been great and I will definately be purchasing this block in the near future.:thumbsup:

whats wrong with some people, disliking someone's design doesn't give you the right to disrespect them, CEO or not, Gabe isn't forcing you to buy his product so if you don't like it leave it alone and move on..

[MaxxxRacer]

Yes. Plating is ~the same, but raw material is 2 1/2 times more than Aluminum. Nonetheless, while cost must remain a factor, it is never the primary factor to me. I founded Swiftech on three principles: Performance Quality & Value. This block epitomizes all three principles in my mind.

Hmm.. Thats quite a bit of an increase. I take it you had considered brass in the design stage of the block, hence you know exactly how much more it would cost?

Is there any chance Swiftech would be willing to consider switching to brass to ease the minds of the paranoid watercolers?

[Philly_Boy]

I went back and took another look at the specs for the housing of the GTX.

It's not risk of corrosion that would put me off this product, but the fact it offers no obvious benefit over the FuZion I have on order

If you want to compare it to the Fuzion...you'll gonna have to wait 3 weeks for me to gather and publish my findings. However, without revealing sources....I know that with most C2D set-ups the difference in performance will be about 1.5c in favor of the GTX given an optimal mount on either block. When you heat up a Kentsfield (3.7ghz++) the performance gap widens a bit to 2.5-2.8c again given optimal mounting conditions.

So yes at the end of the day...if my own data mirrors these findings then the GTX will for now be the best performing CPU block out there.

[Philly_Boy]

Please keep your remarks professional and respectful!! I've issued 3 infractions in the last 15 posts. I really hate being a forum cop...but if this continues, I will close this thread. If you want to tell folks off, please do us all a favor and do it in a pm!

[Bun-Bun]

Swiftech, their products and the people that work there have always been great and I will definately be purchasing this block in the near future.:thumbsup:

whats wrong with some people, disliking someone's design doesn't give you the right to disrespect them, CEO or not, Gabe isn't forcing you to buy his product so if you don't like it leave it alone and move on..

What is wrong is that all it takes is one block. If there was no radical opinions then who knows how many aluminum blocks will result from it.

Hmm.. Thats quite a bit of an increase. I take it you had considered brass in the design stage of the block, hence you know exactly how much more it would cost?

Is there any chance Swiftech would be willing to consider switching to brass to ease the minds of the paranoid watercolers?

I am very much interested to see something like this put in place and would retract all previous statements in the light of Gabe's acceptance of the community's opinion.

[Vapor]

He did say that he produced his block with one of the bases being appearances. If that sells blocks then all power to Swiftech, which incidently is a public corporation, and it is Mr. Rouchon's responsibility as chairman of the board of directors and chief executive officer to maximize returns for his shareholders.

I am just saying that my interest in the block is entirely devoid of appearances as a factor. I could care less if the block looked like the royal crown jewels or a collection of canine turd. I'm interested solely in its performance, especially the new placement of the barbs. In fact, since I do not like metal barbs, I may consider switching them out for standard plastic barbs.

What should I challenge him about? The use of an aluminum top? He's already provided answers addressing the quality of the plating and his rationale for doing so. I find his answers agreeable, and I'm sorry that you don't find it "satisfying." I'll just leave it at that.

Who says that he doesn't care what enthusiasts think? What am I? Chopped liver?!? Let's see. My collection of Swiftech cpu blocks... cpu blocks alone.. not gpu.. not chipset... will fill two shoe boxes. I believe that the Apogee GTX is fundamentally an excellent block, one of the best, if not the best cpu block.

I am *extremely proud* that Swiftech has not followed bling trends. I am extremely happy that Swiftech has never produced a block with a plexi top. It assaults my eyes and senses when a manufacturer equates his computer water cooling blocks with :banana::banana::banana::banana:ography. Its disgusting!

I don't expect anyone to agree with me, not a single individual. You know what? I really don't care what anyone thinks... not a single person, no matter who... I am who I am and I make my own buying decisions. I'll exercise my power as a consumer. I don't sway with public opinion like grass in the wind...

Oooo.. Cathar... Marci... Petra... BillAdams... Nikhsub1... Vapor... PhillyBoy... what do you think I should buy? Please please please... tell me what I should buy... give me a break... have a backbone, people..

And if I should not be part of this forum, tell me straight up and it'll be my pleasure to exit the stage via the left stairwell.

This whole irreverance is really really pi$$ing me off.

I actually agree with you (except the whole leaving part)....kind of insulted though, meh

Fact is this block is extremely likely to be the highest performance block out there and the plating on the aluminum should not be an issue.

If someone doesn't like the look, that's one reason to not buy it, but damn don't slander the whole damn block and company.

And yeah, with the CEO corresponding in public about the decisions that went into it, please show some respect toward him. If nothing else he is an XIP of this forum and is due respect.

[Bun-Bun]

I actually agree with you (except the whole leaving part)....kind of insulted though, meh

Fact is this block is extremely likely to be the highest performance block out there and the plating on the aluminum should not be an issue.

If someone doesn't like the look, that's one reason to not buy it, but damn don't slander the whole damn block and company.

And yeah, with the CEO corresponding in public about the decisions that went into it, please show some respect toward him. If nothing else he is an XIP of this forum and is due respect.

Thing is I like the look. Would love to see this block with something other then Aluminum like Maxxxracer is suggesting so that I may purchase one. I liked the Fuzion over the GT but wished that swiftech had something that appealed to me more. And the GTX is the answer to that except it contains aluminum. So sorry that I feel a little strongly about it. If I was the only one complaing about aluminum then maybe I would rethink my stand. But obviously there is a concern that has been overlooked. All I ask is that concern be considdered in another method then just covering up the problem with plating. You can dress a rock with gold... but its still a rock. (sorry for the lame analogy... I can't think of better atm...)

[Spawne32]

I actually agree with you (except the whole leaving part)....kind of insulted though, meh

Fact is this block is extremely likely to be the highest performance block out there and the plating on the aluminum should not be an issue.

If someone doesn't like the look, that's one reason to not buy it, but damn don't slander the whole damn block and company.

And yeah, with the CEO corresponding in public about the decisions that went into it, please show some respect toward him. If nothing else he is an XIP of this forum and is due respect.

i think the block looks damn sexy, and i didnt read all the pages but i really want to see some performance comparison charts to other blocks since my water cooling system isnt built yet, im still up in the air between this and the fuzion.

[Vapor]

And what if I was a CEO of a company. Would you give me respect even though you don't know who I am and am not clearly stating my reasonings?

CEO of the company in the discussion? Absolutely. Respect is one thing there's no reason to not give until someone 'wrongs' you. Chances are it will help the discussion anyway.

i really want to see some performance comparison charts to other blocks

I think we all are awaiting performance results from a trusted 3rd party

[Bun-Bun]

CEO of the company in the discussion? Absolutely. Respect is one thing there's no reason to not give until someone 'wrongs' you.

I disagree. respect is something that is earned. Gabe has not earned it with me inrespect to this block.

However that does not mean disrespect is in order either, and I apologize if some of what I said was taken as slander. Not what I intended.

[Philly_Boy]

Sheesh, guys the block has not even been out a week yet and everyone wants hard and fast data...*smiles* Why not buy the block and compare it yourself to what you're using now? If we all do that then i am sure some concensus will be achieved.

[Vapor]

Sheesh, guys the block has not even been out a week yet and everyone wants hard and fast data...*smiles*

You betcha Heck, you know just about everyone here wants performance figures of Barcelona,Penryn and/or R600,R700,G90,G100, etc

At least this product is out

Why not buy the block and compare it yourself to what you're using now? If we all do that then i am sure some concensus will be achieved.

.....tempting me to get back into watercooling? Wish I could

[ranker]

You know, if this means it'll be the best new cpu block I'm gonna be pissed. I spent $250 on the swiftech h20 kit to get the Apogee GT. Then 2 weeks ago, everyone was proclaiming the d-tek fusion to be king of the hill. And now people are saying the GTX is best... man that's like $250 on new CPU blocks within a month!

[grudgelord]

I am actually rather surprised that brass only costs 2.5 times that of aluminum. Having done some small bit of metal work over the past ten years or so it has been my experience that brass is freaking expensive. Of course I, admittedly, wasn't purchasing in production quantities. Nevertheless, it's significantly more costly than aluminum.

It's also important to bear in mind the machining costs of brass over aluminum. Brass is significantly harder than aluminum (and it ruins files rather quickly) so the milling process is going to be more expensive due to component wear, thus increasing the cost of manufacture. I'd guess that that $75.00 block would top 100.00 pretty quickly.

Now some protest has arisen from the GTX's higher price tag when compared to the GT. While delrin might or might not be an expensive polymer I'm confidently certain that, once again, we are looking at an additional cost of milling aluminum, not to mention the etching and plating process. Any all-metal block is going to get expensive pretty quick. Even steel, which should be cheaper than aluminum (and no I'm not suggesting a steel top), depending on the grade, would likely become to expensive due to milling costs.

Another thing to keep in mind is that watercooling, while becoming more popular, is not so ubiquitous that Swiftech is producing enough volume to reduce the per-unit cost down to anything that would be considered reasonable by the man-on-the-street. This is still a very specialized niche market.

As for the concerns over corrosion? Who doesn't pull their loop apart so often that they wouldn't catch it in the unlikely event that it did occur? I'm interested in the block and, while it's not what I'd have designed I think it looks nice enough. I'm going to give it a try. If my loop rots out then I'll send Swiftech a nastygram, kick myself for my foolishness and consider taking my business elsewhere. But I truly don't expect that to be the case.

Oh yea, I think Edelbroick valve covers look like crap and I their carburetors are POS. Guess it's a good thing that I don't really feel that the GTX bears any resemblance or confuse my PC with my car, huh?

Now, assuming we can prevent the coolant from freezing, how well do you think this block would perform in outer space? [ducks]

[Plywood99]

EDITED FOR CONTENT-PB


Ply

[serialk11r]

I am actually rather surprised that brass only costs 2.5 times that of aluminum. Having done some small bit of metal work over the past ten years or so it has been my experience that brass is freaking expensive. Of course I, admittedly, wasn't purchasing in production quantities. Nevertheless, it's significantly more costly than aluminum.

It's also important to bear in mind the machining costs of brass over aluminum. Brass is significantly harder than aluminum (and it ruins files rather quickly) so the milling process is going to be more expensive due to component wear, thus increasing the cost of manufacture. I'd guess that that $75.00 block would top 100.00 pretty quickly.

Now some protest has arisen from the GTX's higher price tag when compared to the GT. While delrin might or might not be an expensive polymer I'm confidently certain that, once again, we are looking at an additional cost of milling aluminum, not to mention the etching and plating process. Any all-metal block is going to get expensive pretty quick. Even steel, which should be cheaper than aluminum (and no I'm not suggesting a steel top), depending on the grade, would likely become to expensive due to milling costs.

Another thing to keep in mind is that watercooling, while becoming more popular, is not so ubiquitous that Swiftech is producing enough volume to reduce the per-unit cost down to anything that would be considered reasonable by the man-on-the-street. This is still a very specialized niche market.

As for the concerns over corrosion? Who doesn't pull their loop apart so often that they wouldn't catch it in the unlikely event that it did occur? I'm interested in the block and, while it's not what I'd have designed I think it looks nice enough. I'm going to give it a try. If my loop rots out then I'll send Swiftech a nastygram, kick myself for my foolishness and consider taking my business elsewhere. But I truly don't expect that to be the case.

Oh yea, I think Edelbroick valve covers look like crap and I their carburetors are POS. Guess it's a good thing that I don't really feel that the GTX bears any resemblance or confuse my PC with my car, huh?

Now, assuming we can prevent the coolant from freezing, how well do you think this block would perform in outer space? [ducks]

Wait a moment, Dangerden only charges 6 bucks over the whole block for a brass top! And that's 6 bucks over an acrylic top. And acrylic is much much cheaper than delrin. Brass is much more expensive than aluminum..

[grudgelord]

Wait a moment, Dangerden only charges 6 bucks over the whole block for a brass top! And that's 6 bucks over an acrylic top. And acrylic is much much cheaper than delrin. Brass is much more expensive than aluminum..

Hmm, You raise a good point. I dunno why this is the case. Could have something to do with reduced material cost from a volume supplier or maybe DD decided on a reduced margin on the brass tops (or created a "loss leader"). It is possible that the block's cost was based upon the brass design and DD collects a significantly larger margin on the acrylic model or maybe they sacrifice small creatures at midnight while chanting over the brass.

It wasn't my intention to come off authoritarian on the matter, just a series of educated guesses based upon various experiences. I'll admit, the finer points of production economics are beyond my ken but I'm confident that my analysis is sound even if my hard figures are bovine-poo. I could have easily misjudged the degree of impact that various production forces have.

Hell doing TCO/TCU and lifecycle analysis gives me fits so, like anything anyone else says, take what I say with a grain of salt.

[serialk11r]

Well from what I saw round the net (and other places), Brass is more than just 2.5X more, its like WAYYYYYY more. Copper's price is almost similar to that of amorphous rare earth metal alloys LOL, while aluminum is 15 times cheaper.

[Lascivious1]

from MAXX......
Is there any chance Swiftech would be willing to consider switching to brass to ease the minds of the paranoid watercolers?

I'd really like to know if that would be a possibility? im a noob at WCing and i really love the look and the specs on this block. BUT, since im new to the field of WCing. i myself unfortunatly will have to purchase a Fusion block to be safe.

see i dont want to take the chance on my first new build and add this block to it and find out later i should have listen to the majority of forum posters here about mixed metals. even though i am the type to always do what i want to do. but in this case i would have to listen to the more knowledgable people that have been doing WCing for years.

I will say this though, you make it brass....AND ILL JUMP!

LAS

[Bail_w]

jab-tech have them for sale, anyone have any results yet?

http://jab-tech.com/Apogee-GTX-Extre...k-pr-3730.html