Apogee GTX

[situman]

I wouldn't bother sharing my results given the reputation I have garnered. In fact, I think I'll just keep stuff to myself from here on.

Not sure why you are so angry. People are allowed to express their opinions, truthful or otherwise to each their own. People seen results between the two blocks and made their decisions based on it. I bought the Fuzion based on those results and I really do not like that "bowed" based crap with the thicker o-rings. If you have results feel free to post them if you don't feel like posting them, then don't there's no need for the sarcastic remarks. I have to say the Fuzion gave my G5 a run for the money, but thats because the base of the g5 is concaved. Though I am on my way to correcting that some time tonight.

[nikhsub1]

Even with thorough testing, the results will more likely be inconclusive than not as all these blocks perform so close to each other.

As discussed in a different thread, with multiple mounts of each block with 2 different flow rates, TRENDS will be very clear. No one single test can be considered conclusive.

[ramenchef]

Ahh ok, got ya.

[TheReds]

Has anyone ordered the block yet? I know nikhsub1 will be testing in soon but anyone else take a risk and buy it?

lol im trying to put together a water cooling system but new products keep coming out and i keep having to wait for the results! I think this is a very good thing though

peace

[sc00p]

I'm just overly suspicious about having any aluminium at my loop... due the incidents I've had... even if that nickel plating is same high grade as they use at motor cylinders

[Darmach]

Anyway - GT is not a bad block, is it?

...and i also just bought GT.. ...and rly i dont like this plastic top :/ i dont trust it :P

A pity GT dont have copper, or even pleksiglas top

And about backplates - use Thermalright 775 Bolt-through kit - its just f****g awesome backplate

[TheReds]

What is there to risk? The aluminum top? Ok. You've decided then. You should buy the D-Tek FuZion. Its an excellent water block. Its good value for the money.

i wasnt refering to the risk of the aluminum top but rather just being the first to buy a new prodcut that hasnt really been tested, always kind of a risky purchase i feel, especially if you only have the money fore one block at a time.

peace

[gabe]

A sexy looking block, better performing probably, but alu is a bit scary.

Nickel/Zinc cobalt plated Aluminum:

We provide the MIL and ASTM specs on the plating of these housings. why hasn't anyone bothered to google these specs?

Please, let's review the facts (in this case the specs), before a hasty judgement is passed.

The treatment we give these parts is Military grade, and it is now being used by many other industries, including of course the Military. It's expensive, but well worth it.

[snowwie]

It's expensive, but well worth it.

So it's more expensive than using the alternatives (brass, delrin)? What are the advantages then? I know "bling" sells, but I don't think that there are many wcers today who find comfort in aluminum parts.

[thecoldanddark]

I'll be honest it bothers me very little. I have a koolance block that has electro plating on the block and it has caused no problems with the aluminum the rig (the block is copper while the radiator is aluminum).

As for taking out the barbs, why change them at all? Just put some silicone sealant and leave them on their.


here is the Nickel Plating, now I am off to look for the other

http://www.prodigysurfacetech.com/sp...essnickel.html

[Bun-Bun]

Nickel/Zinc cobalt plated Aluminum:

We provide the MIL and ASTM specs on the plating of these housings. why hasn't anyone bothered to google these specs?

Please, let's review the facts (in this case the specs), before a hasty judgement is passed.

The treatment we give these parts is Military grade, and it is now being used by many other industries, including of course the Military. It's expensive, but well worth it.

Military grade or not... you obviously are not listening to your customers if you put aluminum in your block.

And if it is so expensive then why not just make the top out of copper?

[thecoldanddark]

Nickel/Zinc cobalt plated Aluminum:

We provide the MIL and ASTM specs on the plating of these housings. why hasn't anyone bothered to google these specs?

Please, let's review the facts (in this case the specs), before a hasty judgement is passed.

The treatment we give these parts is Military grade, and it is now being used by many other industries, including of course the Military. It's expensive, but well worth it.

Gabe, can you link us to something with the astm, I can find the military grade, but I am having problems finding the ASTM B 840-99 grade 6. Thanks.

[MaxxxRacer]

Nickel/Zinc cobalt plated Aluminum:

We provide the MIL and ASTM specs on the plating of these housings. why hasn't anyone bothered to google these specs?

Please, let's review the facts (in this case the specs), before a hasty judgement is passed.

The treatment we give these parts is Military grade, and it is now being used by many other industries, including of course the Military. It's expensive, but well worth it.

Gabe, is there any reason for it other than looks?

And if its so expensive, wouldn't having a copper top that would provide the same secondary cooling effects be just as effective?

[Zeus]

Silver plated copper top for GTX rev.2 to keep us all happy.

Delrin is bling enough for me.

[Fossil]

With the two typical cases:

1) incessant tinkerers who are continually remounting, dismantling and reassembling block

2) people who put the block in then run it until the mobo and cpu are obsolete scrap

There doesn't seem a lot or risk: in the first case any corrosion will be spotted before it can cause problems, and in the second the chances of cutting through the plating are slim to none.

Sure, some people would pay the crazy money a copper top with silver plate would cost, but I can see why Swiftech have gone this way: the plated top strikes a balance between bling and practicality - and a lot of people do buy just for bling.

[situman]

Silverprop made some great looking GPU waterblocks and its beautiful with its brass top. Any reason why that can't be done? Why go thru that military grade stuff. Keep it simple and put finned brass or copper for secondary passive cooling. As great as Swiftech is, I think this little brain fart has cost it some credibility.

[Philly_Boy]

lol, the Apogee GTX was tested at that XS overclocking event w/Swiftech and De-tek, so, you should have known

You are incorrect in that statement. The GTX was shown privately behind closed doors only at the Swiftech Challenge event. We were not even permitted to photo it for fear the pics might get leaked. I had this conversation personally with Gabe about the photos.

EDITED out Jerrydog's post as he was not at the event he is describing. ~Philly~
I do my own observations.

The conditions I test under are an independent loop of:
2 DDC+ pumps, one PA120.3, one PA120.2, Tygon 1/2" ID.

pump1 -> pump2 -> PA120.3 -> cpu block -> PA120.2 -> reservoir -> pump 1

I do not introduce nonsense like video cards into my loop, especially two 8800GTXes.

See my pumps? Pressure drop is not a concern. For me. For me. I could care less about who else.

I may also move to Iwakis.. double Iwakis.. if the heat pump can be controlled... What? No one else uses two Iwakis in series? Not my problem.

This reflects the loop I run in real life. If no one else is inclined to use such an amount of equipment in real life, its not my problem.

Why do I regret posting the above already?

I already see the Apogee GT with large O-ring beating out the FuZion. The Apogee GT with the regular O-ring loses to the FuZion measurably.

I am not the fanboy. You should look at the million people in this forum that own a FuZion but not an Apogee GT, and yet saying how the FuZion is hands down superior.

Am I a Swiftie? Do I own stock? Nope. But at least I can speak to them on the phone and they are cordial to me.

I bought TWO FuZion blocks and ONE Apogee GT block. Your attitude makes me want to throw the FuZions into the garbage. I might have bought more FuZion blocks because they are very good blocks, but now I don't know.

I will now mention Spawne because he is irritating me.

Anyway, I am done. I am through. I had enough of this garbage circulating around.

When the emperor has no clothes on, I don't gloat about the fine threads. This discussion is a farce and, honestly, your insinuations and the insults of others do not befit a response.

Ian, you know I also own a Fuzion and I actually own 2 Apogee GT's. I have done independent testing on both blocks but am not done the testing so I won't reveal the results until I publish the review in a few weeks.

I wouldn't bother sharing my results given the reputation I have garnered. In fact, I think I'll just keep stuff to myself from here on.

I am asking you to re-consider this. I deeply respect your attitude of "Let me get both and test them so I can see for myself which is better for my situation." We need more folks like you and Nikhsub1 here who will take the time to get to the bottom of which widget performs better. Please don't be so miserly with your results. Share them with the caveat that this is what works for you and these are your results.

What is there to risk? The aluminum top? Ok. You've decided then. You should buy the D-Tek FuZion. Its an excellent water block. Its good value for the money.

You are correct. The Fuzion is an excellent block. So is the Apogee GT. I am hoping that the GTX will follow in those footsteps.

I'd be more worried about the top and bottom plates flexing and grinding agaisnt one another more than the barbs. Specially if you use that over sized O ring to squeeze the last drop of performance. Even without the over sized O ring, there's still a small bit of flexing and grateing. With all the added presure being forced along the edges to flex the base flat for a good mount...POP, sooner or later in my opinion. And making it even worse, to check things out from time to time to make sure no corrosion is forming inside the block by taking it apart (becuase you can't tell from the outside) , even increases the chance. Same thing could happen everytime you re mount, even without taking it apart.

Just sux man, killing me.

andyc

I have regularly disassembled and reassembled the Apogee GT with no ill affects or performance degradation. I don't think your arguement is true. As long as you are carefull each time you should be able to obtain repeatable results

OK, folks, please let's dabate this nicely....respecting one another's opinions without the need to flame or attack each other. It really is possible to disagree with someone respectfully and professionally. Remember, we do this to have fun making our machines go faster or be more silent or more stable for gaming, benching or DC'ing. Not one of us is getting paid $$$ to do this.

Let's be courteous so I don't have to push the "delete" button like with jerrydog.

[snowwie]

secondary cooling effects

oh c'mon, you don't actually believe that, do you? With GPUs and CPUs today and double, triple, and quadruple rads, what kind of difference are you expecting a alu top to give compared to a plastic top? I expect nil.

[Bun-Bun]

Not the issue in relationship to unmounting remounting a GT, it does't have a plated AL top. My comment was in regards to unmounting and remounting a top that's plated AL which the GTX has. So my comments and argument is dead on in regards to being concerned that the plating will pop, thus exposing the AL in direct contact with copper, in the presense of an electrolite. And that condition will be magnified by the flexing from unmounting and remounting the block as the top (plated AL) applys presure to the plated area, and grating on the bottom plate which is copper. Which is a potential disaster for any WC rig.

And I've already checked around on different material engineering sites, and they stress that there's a potential for exposing the plated AL and corrosion.

So I'd say my concerns are valid. But couldn't agree with you more about keepng things civil when debating. I don't believe I've flamed, just expressed a valid concern and opinion without insulting or being uncivil.

Bottom line, I usually let the value of something dictate my purchases. Bad idea to create a block with mixed metals regardless of the rational IMO. So I won't buy one,

andyc

Agreed. Regardless of the manufacturing standards used there is still a chance and there are still defects of said manufacturing. No matter what you do to stop it, it will happen. It is the primary law of statistics in manufacturing/QA.

[JoeBar]

Nickel/Zinc cobalt plated Aluminum:

We provide the MIL and ASTM specs on the plating of these housings. why hasn't anyone bothered to google these specs?

Please, let's review the facts (in this case the specs), before a hasty judgement is passed.

The treatment we give these parts is Military grade, and it is now being used by many other industries, including of course the Military. It's expensive, but well worth it.

I'm sure that u did a great job with the coating, but many of us aren't familiar with alu in our loops. U should know it better as an American.
In Germany this would be totally acceptable...

If the performance is top notch, i may ditch my beloved Storm though...

Gabe, is there any reason for it other than looks?

And if its so expensive, wouldn't having a copper top that would provide the same secondary cooling effects be just as effective?

I wonder the same thing. Weight maybe a prob?

[ramenchef]

Hmm, I just we'll just have to wait and see if these predicted issues actually come about.

[JoeBar]

How can aluminum contribute to a weight problem? Copper would be worse. Just a thought.

U misunderstood me. I meant that cooper maybe a weight prob.

[MaxxxRacer]

I wonder the same thing. Weight maybe a prob?

Copper would not create a weight problem. the force of the tubes applying unwanted leverage to the CPU block is FAR greater than any effects caused by a heavier block.

oh c'mon, you don't actually believe that, do you? With GPUs and CPUs today and double, triple, and quadruple rads, what kind of difference are you expecting a alu top to give compared to a plastic top? I expect nil.

I expect nil too, but I am just hoping that Swiftech created the GTX for more than just bling factor.

[pie_uk]

oooh whens the "ultra" out

[Fossil]

Thermalfake have an all copper block; from what I can tell it's extremely restrictive, and probably performs badly compared to almost anything else you can buy - clearly though cost isn't a problem because they sell it cheap.

(Had to edit this, there is a block that's going to be worse: the Thermalfake block made out of a great big lump of copper with a big lump of perspex on top: the water gets near the hear somewhere, honest, maybe).

Swiftech have always been pretty mindful of how their stuff looked, and I doubt that has done their business any harm. The vast majority of buyers aren't going to know if the composition of the block is a good thing or bad, and aren't going to care unless the Swiftech site tells them it's the best thing since sliced bread (but that would never happen right?) They just want something that looks flashy under a blue LED at a LAN party.

Obviously, you would use silver plate on copper instead of going solid silver because otherwise it might start corroding your copper rads - lol

File the rest of this thread with the one on the fans of thunder. Unless someone can show that this block consistently outperforms FuZion the whole debate is meaningless - and the claimed benefits would seem to only bring it to around equal (or still below give or take o-ring benefits).