Rad cleaning acording to Marci aka Thermochill

[Bun-Bun]

Aww now everyone has gone and angered Marci....

I listen to you Marci. The only reason I think vinegar is with other manufacturer's RAD's... If I had one of yours, I would just use hot water. Unless someone can confirm that they use a water based flux as well.

[IanY]

I have never used vinegar before, and I own a ton of radiators. Its never made any sense to me.

[Thrilla]

Well people clean their blocks with vinegar and both block and rad are copper, so block to rad makes some sense. Plus we're XS here, not many people follow instructions

[pie_uk]

basically people cant blame marci for anything, as he said, do what you want to do.


i am just wanting to get to the bottom of what is best for what. seems that the out come as already said is using hot water but thats because the rads use a water based flux.

cheers for the heads up on this guys.

[hopper]

DO NOT LET IT AIR DRY AND DONT SOAK IT FOR DAYS... LOL

i agree in the stikies it should say somewhere that some rads use water flux/some dont

[serialk11r]

I think there is a misconception. Just because lots of crap came out (which is true with water, alcohol, listerine, vinegar, etc.etc.etc. trust me I tested all of them before vinegar) doesn't mean its the most effective way of cleaning or if its very effective at all!!! What makes you think that vinegar is a good solvent and will clean things up? Its probably 1. because the stickies said so 2. everyone knows acid EATS things right? so it should EAT the crap out!!!.

And also, wtf why would you want the inside of your rad "shiny"?????? You cannot see the inside, and that like 0.000000001" layer of copper oxide will really hurt performance? If you're that worried about performance, take some acetone, and dump it on your rad to kill all the paint, and you will see a much greater benefit in temps (about 0.001C as opposed to 0.0000000001C okay look I made those numbers up but really....)

[BillA]

lol
ah Marci, as little as I like or respect your friend, always we return to the 'net clue factor'
christ how many times has rad cleaning been described, but each venue has it's virgin noobs who already know everything
infinitum ad nausium (sp no doubt)

conventional rads are cleaned in hot caustic, got that sports ?
then rinsed in sequential ultrasonic cleaners and the pH monitored, by 'reasonable' mfgrs

what do you wizards think is happening with lead and acid ?
no one here a matls engr ?
sort through the matls and their constituent components and all is really quite clear
and why you guys see no 'professionals' here - or any enthusiast forum

ignore me, have fun

[sanhacker]

lol

conventional rads are cleaned in hot caustic, got that sports ?
then rinsed in sequential ultrasonic cleaners and the pH monitored, by 'reasonable' mfgrs

what do you wizards think is happening with lead and acid ?

I thought the point was that since RoHS, they have now switched to a water based flux.

Doesn't this change the rules, or does it not make a difference. Since RoHS occured roughly six months ago, do we just blindly follow what was done before, or look for a better way.

Doesn't seem to me a water based flux is all that caustic.

Wasn't that the point of RoHS ???

[BillA]

who is "they" ?
Marci described RoHS, which the USA does not require
look to your rad source, evaluate the effect of acid on the rad you have in any case
re-read Marci's post if you have difficulty

as he said, do whatever you wish

[sanhacker]

Sorry.
When I said "they", I was referring to Thermochill, since "they" are the subject of this thread.

No difficulty. I believe water based flux makes a difference as to the cleaning requirements.

This is a recent anomaly.

Actually, USA does require RoHS if you plan on exporting to the EU. I'm very familiar with this as I have a myriad of products I export to the EU and since the EU represents 1/3 of my sales, all my products are now RoHS compliant.

Anyone selling radiators (or other products) in the EU has to conform to RoHS as of July of last year. Regardless of where they are manufactured.

This applies to Swiftech, Black Ice, Cooling Works, etc.

Since Marci just found out last week that RoHS required a change to a "water based flux" in Thermochill rad's, it seems likely this would also apply to any manufacturer (US or otherwise) wanting to do business in the EU.

Based on this recent news from Marci, who I understand only represents Thermochill, I'm wondering if all radiators sold today can be effectively cleaned with HOT WATER. Distilled, Deionized, tap or otherwise.

If sold in the EU, I believe the answer is yes.

But, as you say, we will always do as we wish.

[MaxxxRacer]

Even now, after I've stated that folks only need to use hot water to flush OUR rads with, folks are STILL debating "what can do it better"... "should I use hot water AND vinegar?"... so what the hell difference does it make what I say?? You guys'll do what you always do and take it one step further, so what was the point of me saying it in the first place?

Boiling Vinegar!!

note: for anyone dumb enough to try this, please wear a breathing aparatus of some sort so that you dont inhale acid.

[Marci]

Since Marci just found out last week that RoHS required a change to a "water based flux" in Thermochill rad's, it seems likely this would also apply to any manufacturer (US or otherwise) wanting to do business in the EU.

Based on this recent news from Marci, who I understand only represents Thermochill, I'm wondering if all radiators sold today can be effectively cleaned with HOT WATER. Distilled, Deionized, tap or otherwise.

Jumping in with both feet and assuming too much d00d...

Our Production Manager (Andy) CHOSE to go with Water-based flux when regs changed for RoHS compliance... however, there are still non-water-based fluxes that are fine to use... there's a whole list of different fluxes which are all RoHS Compliant, covering organic and inorganic waterbased, rosin-based etc etc. All manufacturers are free to choose whichever they want to use, so no, not ALL rads produced for sale within EU will use water-based flux. They MAY do so, but there's no hard rule enforcing it... merely rules enforcing the use of older fluxes with components that do not comply with RoHS.

Hence I keep stressing that this is the case for our rads only, and my advice for our rads cannot be held up against other manufacturer's rads. You'll all have to check with those other manufacturers for yourselves to find out what flux they're using.


It should also be noted that no-one is marching round the EU stamping "failed RoHS" on items. There isn't anyone in customs sat checking every shipment for RoHS compliancy. There are still PLENTY of goods coming from outside of Europe into the EU which would fail RoHS compliancy without a doubt. It's an unenforced regulation as far as I can tell. Certainly no-one came knocking on our door to inform us of any changes we had to make... it was spotted on the news on TV one day, and the next day we had a meeting and went thru it all for ourselves and sorted it out with no external advice or interference.

[sanhacker]

I keep stressing that this is the case for our rads only, and my advice for our rads cannot be held up against other manufacturer's rads. You'll all have to check with those other manufacturers for yourselves to find out what flux they're using..

Thanks for the clarification. I hadn't seen any posts where you were stressing this. I only saw you referring to Thermochill radiators.

This sounds like a good argument for purchasing Thermochill rads over the others. I'd likely include it in my marketing material. Then again, if you don't know what the others are using, it may be a moot point.

It should also be noted that no-one is marching round the EU stamping "failed RoHS" on items. There isn't anyone in customs sat checking every shipment for RoHS compliancy.

And with RoHS-3 and RoHS-5, that is a good thing for many of us

Thanks.

[thunderstruck!]

After not much success using vinegar, I boiled some distilled water and flushed out the PA 120.3 many times and shook it as well. Water is very clear now, much better than I was able to achieve using vinegar.

Boiling water ftw!

[Bun-Bun]

After not much success using vinegar, I boiled some distilled water and flushed out the PA 120.3 many times and shook it as well. Water is very clear now, much better than I was able to achieve using vinegar.

Boiling water ftw!

Woot! That is what was expected... can anyone confirm this with HWLabs and Swiftech rads?

[serialk11r]

I'm going to point this out: No one proved or did any tests that vinegar was a more effective solvent when used with non-water soluble flux. In fact, vinegar is mostly water which is a solvent anyways... I think its a waste of vinegar, if not killing your stuff. Besides, it will corrode pretty much everything a little bit, even if its a tiny bit, and if you care about mixing metals you should care about this.
And I'm going to repeat myself: "works well" does not mean "the best". I have googled the thermaltake water cooling systems, and I found tiny forums with everyone using them. Guess what they said? "it works well". Okay do you think thermaltake makes the best watercooling?

[Bun-Bun]

I'm going to point this out: No one proved or did any tests that vinegar was a more effective solvent when used with non-water soluble flux. In fact, vinegar is mostly water which is a solvent anyways... I think its a waste of vinegar, if not killing your stuff. Besides, it will corrode pretty much everything a little bit, even if its a tiny bit, and if you care about mixing metals you should care about this.
And I'm going to repeat myself: "works well" does not mean "the best". I have googled the thermaltake water cooling systems, and I found tiny forums with everyone using them. Guess what they said? "it works well". Okay do you think thermaltake makes the best watercooling?

But no one (AFAIK) has proved otherwise either... maybe its why people have clouding.

A little bit of corrosion is not going to hurt anything if its controlled... if you care about that little bit of corrosion then I guess you are going to have to set up a sterile/vacuum enviroment...

All I know is I am going to try running boiling distilled water through my loop initially to clean it.

[Marci]

This sounds like a good argument for purchasing Thermochill rads over the others. I'd likely include it in my marketing material. Then again, if you don't know what the others are using, it may be a moot point.

Just noticed over on HWLabs site...

Uses 100% Non-corrosive water-solluble fluxing process.

(GT Stealth & Xtreme product description)

So that answers what you should do if you're using a HWLabs rad.

[IanY]

I tried the boiling water routine and the radiator gets really hot .. so be careful about your fingers lol

[Bun-Bun]

Just noticed over on HWLabs site...


(GT Stealth & Xtreme product description)

So that answers what you should do if you're using a HWLabs rad.

Awesome, thank you Marci.

So boiling water it is then. Will save me from having to buy more vinegar... I already go through enough of it cleaning my humidifier.

[thunderstruck!]

I tried the boiling water routine and the radiator gets really hot .. so be careful about your fingers lol

I had to use pot holders when cleaning mine.

[MikalCarbine]

Would running boiling water through an AQ50Z be detrimental to its being? lol

[Pete]

I used a Eheim 1048, got 2 and both are spears fo fill and bleeding my rig. It seamed okay in sucking up and being inmersed in boiling hot water...but i no longer care about it's wellfair.

Just fill the rad and leav it for ten mins then emopty half out, seal it and shake it vilolently, then epmty and run it through with the hot tap.

I got one of the hose tap fitting things for your garden, nice high presure here and i just left it to run and clean it out

[MikalCarbine]

I used a Eheim 1048, got 2 and both are spears fo fill and bleeding my rig. It seamed okay in sucking up and being inmersed in boiling hot water...but i no longer care about it's wellfair.

Just fill the rad and leav it for ten mins then emopty half out, seal it and shake it vilolently, then epmty and run it through with the hot tap.

I got one of the hose tap fitting things for your garden, nice high presure here and i just left it to run and clean it out

Sounds good, redoing my loop this weekend, taking out this pentek filter and adding an EK 1900 block My rad seems clean but I want to clean it trying the boiling water method

[Pete]

Just wear gloves, the hot waer will show just how good these rads are at conduciting/radiating heat...wont take long to warm up