New TJ07 cooling project...could use your help/ideas

[masaville]

I ditched my CM Stacker 830 a few days ago for a TJ07, mainly because the stacker was poorly designed for water cooling. I'm in the process of putting getting the TJ07 and am looking for some ideas on the best approach to a dual loop using this case. I can easily use a single loop and keep the 480 rad internal, but I kind of like the idea of adding a second loop to try and get it quieter by running the fans at a lower RPM.

Some pics of my old Stacker setup.


A mock-up of what I'm thinking of doing with the TJ07. Green indicates the component is behind, rather in front.


As you can see from the mock-up, if I remove the 120.3, rear res, and pump on the tray level I can easily run a loop inside. I'm sure this will decrease noise somewhat as the rad used to be on top, but it may increase heat as well.

I was thinking of splitting the loop and using the PA120.3 for the CPU alone and the 480 below for the GPUs. To do that I'd pretty well have to mount an external res on the rear (no drive bays left) and run the tubing down to the res and then into the pump (drill and add gromets). Alternatively, I could cut a hole through the mesh and the top and run the tubing down and out, but that could get cluttered. Mounting the 120.3 up top is not that difficult now that I've done it already and I can add a nice grill to the top of the rad to polish it off. I'd like to keep it as neat as possible, although that may be somewhat difficult.

I'll have to use some 90 degree fittings for the pump at the bottom, the entry to the GPU block and possibly in a few other places as well. By positioning the innovatek res a little lower I can run the 480 rad into the inlet and the keep the outlet flush with the pump, eliminating any bending in the tubing. From the bottom pump, I can run tubing up into the bottom GPU and then back down from the top GPU into the 480 inlet.

Anway, if you have any good ideas I've love to hear them before I start drilling a bunch of holes.

[pss75]

black ice 3 fan stealth in the top, u need to cut out the top a bit, and PA 120.3 in the bottom. Your 4 fan rad might be a bit of a squeeze in the bottom as the front of the case curves up a little. i use 2 DCC pumps to save space.

[masaville]

Alternatively, you can pick up the phone and call Mountain Mods. I own a TJ-07 myself, but its sitting in my garage and gathering dust. There just ain't no way you are going to squeeze in those high end water cooling ideas into a case that was distinctly not designed with water cooling in mind.

Don't you think mounting a PA120.3 above the case and a reservoir off the back of the case is gross and unsightly ?

Well if you do it cleanly it's not bad. Look at the system about halfway down this page (http://www.hardforum.com/showthread....760053&page=15) posted by Malicious. It's very clean and externally, it doesn't look bad at all.

[masaville]

black ice 3 fan stealth in the top, u need to cut out the top a bit, and PA 120.3 in the bottom. Your 4 fan rad might be a bit of a squeeze in the bottom as the front of the case curves up a little. i use 2 DCC pumps to save space.

I managed to get the 480 in the bottom and it fits perfectly. I mounted it on some brackets to raised it up 1/2" for clearance as well.

[pss75]

Nice n Cool, 2 loops in this case does go in but there is not much room left in the case when its all in there as u can see!

[pss75]

true, i prefer everything inside!

[masaville]

Remember that a PA is double the width of the BI rad that Malicious used on top of that case.

Yup, I checked it already. Not wider than the case. I was thinking of copying Malicious' build up top. It's pretty clean for an external rad mount.

[pss75]

Make a nice box around the PA and it should look OK, u also need at least 2 inch/4 cm to help evacuate the air under the rad and to reduce noise.

[masaville]

You may want to use some grills up top to protect the very delicate fins. Fin bending can quickly become a problem.

Righto, I won't be leaving the rad open like that. The cat jumped on it last time. Heh.

[ramenchef]

I just gotta say that i don't believe those are the wisest of choices for reservoirs as they're aluminum. Get some zerex or G12 if you want to go ahead with those reservoirs.

[Sideroxylon]

I have to agree with Iany. External stuff on your case looks like crap. Especially the TJ07. It's way too sexy to be hackin up like that. But to each his own.

Have you tried running the GPU's and processor on that 480? Seems like it should be more than up to the job.

[$+€\/Ø]

I think you can get away with a 120.2 in the roof and a 120.3 in the basement for what you're trying to cool. The 120.2 will fit in the top vent without much trouble and the 120.3 down below will be no problem. You might want to consider the alphacool or EK reservoirs as well. As a matter of fact, I think you could use one of EK's multioption res's for both loops- they have 4 ports.http://ekwaterblocks.com/shop/popup_...ID=139&invis=0

[masaville]

I think you can get away with a 120.2 in the roof and a 120.3 in the basement for what you're trying to cool. The 120.2 will fit in the top vent without much trouble and the 120.3 down below will be no problem. You might want to consider the alphacool or EK reservoirs as well. As a matter of fact, I think you could use one of EK's multioption res's for both loops- they have 4 ports.http://ekwaterblocks.com/shop/popup_...ID=139&invis=0

Interesting. I wonder how sharing a res with two loops would impact performance. I suppose it depends on the loop and how well it's cooled before it hits the res. This week I'm trying the two loops before I mount them to see the results of a combined loop and single loops.

[masaville]

I have to agree with Iany. External stuff on your case looks like crap. Especially the TJ07. It's way too sexy to be hackin up like that. But to each his own.

Have you tried running the GPU's and processor on that 480? Seems like it should be more than up to the job.

Ya, the 480 does a good job. I have a thread with lots of temp results here (http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1161656).

Basically, with 4 Silenx fans maxed at 1400rpm (72cfm apparently) I got these results.

Water Idle Temps
-----------------
Ambient room temperature 23.4c
Everest - cpu/32c gpu1/46c gpu2/42c mb/36c

Water Load Temps (max temps)
----------------------------------
Orthos - ambient room temperature 23.4c
cpu0/42c cpu1/41c gpu1/48c gpu2/45c mb/38c

3dmark06 - ambient room temperature 23.5c
cpu0/42c cpu1/39c gpu1/54c gpu2/48c mb/39c

Vanguard Animated Character Selection Screen - ambient room temperature 22.5c
cpu0/39c cpu1/36c gpu1/55c gpu2/50c mb/39c


I'm trying G11/distilled as we speak to see how it performs (it does foam up btw) and the temps are marginally higher than the above. Still have yet to do any load tests. After that I'm going to split the loop and see what difference it makes by putting the CPU on it's own loop. I don't have the sides of the case on yet, so that may add a few degrees to the temps. I'll post some results as I go along so at least the other forum members will know if it's worth it or a complete waste of time. Heh.

[Sideroxylon]

Those temps are great. Better than I thought you'd get.

Are temps taken with core temp? If those temps are close to actual, I think I wouldn't bother with the hassle of mounting and routing a second rad.

[masaville]

Those temps are great. Better than I thought you'd get.

Are temps taken with core temp? If those temps are close to actual, I think I wouldn't bother with the hassle of mounting and routing a second rad.

I used coretemp, tat, and Everest. After watching all of them closely for quite some time I noticed that they were all producing the same results, so to keep it consistent I elected to use Everest only after that. So yes, I did get the same results on coretemp/tat.

Tonight I'm going to try a mix of 5-10% G11/distilled with the same 480 loop and then try the 120.3 in the same loop at 10%. After that I'm going to split them and see how the 120.3 handles the CPU only, then we'll know if it's really worth it or a waste of time to add that second rad. I can easily fit the 480 and all other w/c components inside the case so it's not unsightly, but if the second rad makes a significant enough difference in noise/temps then I'll definitely mount it up top.

[masaville]

Look at Herr Kreuml's TJ-07 in the Gallery (bottom of page).


http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...34877&page=127

Nice. Thanks Ian.

That tiny little res would fit perfectly right before the pump. It looks like it's fairly easy to fill as well having a large cap, unlike the Swiftech Microres I installed which had a cap the size of a nickel. That would allow me to put the res right next to the rad and the pump right after it and eliminate that XSPC or Innovatek res, which is quite large.

Is having a large advantageous in terms of reducing temps? What if it's inside the case and of course, the case heats up. Will the heat of the case compared to the amount of time the fluid is in the res defeat the purpose of having a large res inside? It seems the pump sucks out the fluid quite fast so I don't imagine it stays in the res too long, no matter the size.

[masaville]

Project update.

So here is a side by side comparison of a CM Stacker 830 and a TJ07. The areas outlined in red on the Stacker show the wasted or inaccessible space. As you can see the TJ07 is equal in height to the 830, but with the power supply turned on it's side and mounted down below offers significantly more interior space. It's also slightly wider and longer.



So...the million dollar question is 'will it fit'? What do you think?



And the answer is YES!!! it will fit.



....but hey, I always like to follow the governments rule of spending. Why settle for one when you can have two for twice the price??? :p



A few 90 degree fittings and voila! you're in business.



Well, we're on the way now. Now where the hell am I going to put the damn pumps and res.....anyone sell a miniature pump? Doesn't the TJ07 come supersized???



A sneaky place to hide your Silverstone fan controller in a TJ07.



That's all for now - more updates later!

[Sideroxylon]

That's starting to come together nicely. That's gonna be sweet.

So fans on the rads are in a push config?

One suggestion...lose the corrugated wire sleeving. Looks like ass compared to all the other nice stuff you have in there. Use some zip ties or something to keep wires nice and neat.

Also, I love your blatant disregard of the ensuing posts you'll get about using 90's in your loop. I'm a big fan of using 90's if they make sense for your loop. I'm glad you decided to mount both rads internally too. That top mount idea you were kicking around would have taken away from the sexiness of the TJ07.

[masaville]

More parts in today for the project.

Couple of EK 200 reservoirs, some gel pads to keep those pumps whisper quiet, and more barbs.



These EK reservoirs are some serious high quality reservoirs and are built to last. When you pick these up and examine them carefully you can easily see that they aren't some slap happy plastic container that some outfit threw together. These make my Swiftech Microres look pretty sad in comparison. I have an XSPC 250mm anodized aluminum res for comparsion as well as Innovatek tank-o-matic 280mm. If you're considering any of the these let me know if you have questions.

Still waiting on a few more items;

-Black 90 degree elbow fittings, cord clips, and clamps
-A silverstone bay extension bracket - probably use this to mount the second pump (upside down maybe)
-A Lian Li Rheobus Fan Controller 5.25" - Black w/ Silver Knobs to add a little practical flair to the front-end

Can I get some feedback on design if any has experience with the following. Right now I have two rads inside at the bottom, one for the CPU loop, the other for the GPUs. However, these EK reservoirs can be used with dual rads and a single pump. Alteratively I can use two reservoirs and two pumps. Does anyone have any experience throwing a 360/480 and a 240 in the same loop with an E6700 and two 8800s or similar? I'm wondering how it would affect temp by running a single loop with dual rads versus two independant loops, each with their own res and pump. Although I can test this out myself it would be great to find out if anyone has already tried it.

I assume when the fluid mixes in the res the temps will average out based on volume of fluid in each rad, how long it's in there, and flow rates?

[Pete]

I would of put 2 480's in the base then were talking

[masaville]

I would of put 2 480's in the base then were talking

LOL and go with no power supply heh? There's no space for two 480s.

Can you fit two 480s in a lian li v2000b plus II if you stack them on their sides? Also, what about airflow? I was thinking of grabbing a v2000b, but I don't know how two rads in the bottom of that case can achieve decent airflow with the fans affixed to them. There don't appear to be any ducts except on the bottom and back.

[masaville]

A 480 and a 240 at the bottom, a 360 on top of the case and another 360 at the back

LOL Bring it on baby!!! That would be some seriously w/c overkill. A 480 just for the 680i nb.

I have a 480, 240 and Thermchill 120.3 so I'm close =P

[masaville]

Talking about XS.. take a look at the World's Seconds Craziest Loops rofl

LOL made me laugh!!

[Pete]

LOL and go with no power supply heh? There's no space for two 480s.

Can you fit two 480s in a lian li v2000b plus II if you stack them on their sides? Also, what about airflow? I was thinking of grabbing a v2000b, but I don't know how two rads in the bottom of that case can achieve decent airflow with the fans affixed to them. There don't appear to be any ducts except on the bottom and back.

Give the measurements i'll check right now for ya!!

Intake from both side and have some fans along the top of the rad to draw the air/heat up and thus stopping the rads blowing at each other a lot! PSU can be made to fit dude!