new TIM king???

[Liquid3D]

I knew something had to be "cooking" (or freezing). I wonder if my sending that note to Chip-Con did anything?

I remember mentioning my wanting to design a Vaccum-tube, sound-card. Audiophile tyoe, using Burr-Brown DAC's, Vishay-resistors, Rel-Cap's, Cardas wiring, etc. I used to a die-hard Audiophile (hence my username, before I became disabled = financially indigent) anyway I've had $10K tube-amps. And that's just the Amps. The interconnects alone can cost $300 for a half-meter pair! They often use pure-silver, point to point wiring; the philosophy being "anything unnecessary in the signal path has the propensity to distort sound." Hence the Futterman transformerless tube-amps I had too. Mate them with a $4K pair of Apogee Stage mylar/planar speakers and you have a sound-stage where you can tell the dimensions (reflections off walls) of the recording studio, literally. Reading Stereophile Magazine's reviews, you'll often hear them saying their listening room walls "disappeared into the soundstage, and the room opened-up". I used to have a pair of Pro-ac repsonse speakers and Cary SLA-70 stereo-tube Amp, with a Meirdian transport, and seperate DAC, I could hear saliva on Joni Mitchell's lips!

Oh I digress AGAIN. Anyway after sending someone in the "business" that suggestion, 8 months later AOpen announces their on-board tube-staged Motherboard. And wouldn't you know it, it used Cardas wiring, Vishay resistors, Rel Cap's, and a Sovtek tube??? Lesson, have confidence you-too can apply for a Patent.

I hope it's Nanotherm who releases it. Sound's like your company aspires to be more then another "thermal goop" maker.

[Evil_Spork]

all this sure makes me wish i had a well paying job...... if i only had an extra 400grand.. i could buy a nice home theatre and a computer that might comp close to rivaling some of yours! YAY!.. oh the self pitty LOL

[STEvil]

Liquid - you would want to keep some kind of a heatsink attached to the CPU or any exposed FC-PGA style processors/gpus's as the surface area they have vs. pressure the flourinert would provide for usefull contact would be extremely low just sitting there....

[LikwidKool]

so my PCM came in today. I applied it, and temps seemed the same. I went for another application when my power went out! DOH! I decided this was a perfect chance to lap the IHS. Did that put another application on, and just got power back 1/2 an hour ago(4am EST). Ambient and case temps are a little high considering no ac all night. Temps still seem consistent though with AS3.

Am I applying it wrong? I put a drop on and spread it out with the plastic stick. Then did the same to the bottom of the waterblock. Only thing I wonder is the stick wasn't flat and made scrape marks in the TIM. Meaning miniscule parts of the IHS were exposed. Tommorow after work, I am going to try again when ambient temps are back to normal. Also going to try with a sandwich baggy on my finger to spread it.

FWIW I am still satisfied. Ambient is roughly 27.5°c and cpu measures at 42°c idle and 50°c after 15 mins of prime tortue test. That is around what I was getting before with a 25°c ambient. Just remember too the IC7 reports higher temps than other boards.

Does the PCM nead time to break in?

[Liquid3D]

Originally posted by Evil_Spork
all this sure makes me wish i had a well paying job...... if i only had an extra 400grand.. i could buy a nice home theatre and a computer that might comp close to rivaling some of yours! YAY!.. oh the self pitty LOL

ME TOO. But I don't have any of that stuff anymore. I sold it all when I began racing mountain bikes, surfing and such.

Last system I tried to get into for Audiophiles "entry level", I bought this AMP that was pure DC powered. It would charge, and them your running a 100W per channel system with no current (from the wall -socket). That system was solid state / mosfett, and it sounded smooth as tubes. It was awsome. Had a pair of Spica TC-50, and a CAL (California Audio Labs) tubed stage CD player, and the used the system cost me $4500.00. Sold it when I broke my back.

STEvil what do you mean? The heat wouldn't dissipate because the design of these chips requires pressurized contact for transfer?

[TheDude]

Originally posted by Nanotherm
Keep reading the various threads on this Forum. There may be some new and interesting things coming up in the world of "subzero" water-cooling very soon (hint, hint)

LOL....Don't let it be said that I can't take a hint!
I guess it's a good time to mention that Nanotherm is working on an exciting new product...a heat transfer fluid. Scott has asked me to be his primary Alpha tester and I will be testing various iterations of the fluid. First will be a straight water cooling blend and then we will move on to a sub zero blend for chillers.
There really won't be much to post until we are done and ready to bring the product to market, at which point I will post a first review of the new product.
I'm just about done putting together a new water rig for the tests. It's a simple system consisting of Cathar's new Cascade AMD block, a heater core from a 79 Chevy PU with 2 120mm fans, a Danner3 pump and a homemade plastic tank.
I should mention that I have no financial interest in this project and will receive no compensation other than the satisfaction of being a part of the process.
I should be testing the 1st blend for regular water cooling this coming week. I expect it to be an educational, interesting and fun project!

[STEvil]

STEvil what do you mean? The heat wouldn't dissipate because the design of these chips requires pressurized contact for transfer?

Exactly.

Remember direct die cooling with water at all? Or Cathar and Morphling making micro channel waterblocks? The basic point is that water that is just sitting against a bare chip/die does not a whole lot of good. Water that is forced against it has much better thermal... adhesion?

EDIT

Heat transfer fluid, eh? I think someone already beat you to the punch in another way, but i've yet to look in depth into it... just been theorizing over it while I work out details on another project... hehe.

[TheDude]

Heat transfer fluid, eh? I think someone already beat you to the punch in another way, but i've yet to look in depth into it... just been theorizing over it while I work out details on another project... hehe

Sorry Bro....you completely lost me there?
There are already such fluids, I realize...just trying to build a better mouse trap.

[STEvil]

Yeah, thats what I was saying, but they build it unintentionally (without the intention of use in computers)...

[Nanotherm]

Originally posted by STEvil
Yeah, thats what I was saying, but they build it unintentionally (without the intention of use in computers)...

Some people do - and some people don't

[sjohnson]

STEvil - do you mean the anti-seize compound you posted about?

If so, I wonder about the quality control as that stuff relates to use as a HSF compound. You got some great results but I tried both the gray and copper stuff with very poor results.

Nanotherm - any special technique recommended for the PCM+ application? I just received mine today

[Nanotherm]

Yes. Put one small drop of PCM+ on both the HSF and CPU and rub it around with your finger (in a plastic bag) a few times to achieve a very thin coating on both mating surfaces. Then attach the HSF to the CPU while the PCM+ is still fairly liquid, power up your box and have fun!

[STEvil]

No, that stuff is falling behind my current "TIM" by quite a bit, 3c to 6c it seems.


What I meant by that, however, was that sometimes people make something with the express intentions of creating one thing, and when they have achieved that, they do not look at any of the other properties they have achieved....

That being said, I think looking into extremely light cohesion oil based or stuled liquids could be the direction to go... such as synthetic oils for car engines.



I need some sleep.. been up for approx 52 hours since about 28 mins ago.. hehe 8-)

[xgman]

Report: So far the "Black" stuff seems a bit better than ceramique/as3, but no miracle, but then again, I don't think there is anything that will drop temps much more than a degree or so after a certain point. Still, the ease of application of the liquid type of TIM has a great deal going for it. Just understand that for instance you would not want to use this sort of TIM on something like a NF2 NB. It just isn't a flat enough surface. There would be no room for error in the contact, and so may of thos NB's are somewhat concave.

[Evil_Spork]

very true. unless your crazy and lap your NB and NB sink.... thats nuts but im going to do it and gunna try PCM+. ill have to try it stock first, then with AS3, then lap and PCM+. ill report back when im done(still need my mobo back from RMA though lol)

[xgman]

The coating is just so thin, and even with a thick coating of ceramique or as3, at least the NB ofn my NF7-S barely touches in the middle and it is difficult to lap flat while on the MB.

[STEvil]

Try lapping an 8K3A+ NB.. now thats hard!

Gonna go all out on my 8RDA+ when it arrives, hehe.

[Liquid3D]

From what I'm seeing from the bottom of three heatsinks all on $150+ motherboards, it's totally worth it, to at least lap the NB-HSF. The NB, well that's up to you.

I believe the PCM+ should only be used if you know your surfaces are mated well. Otherwise your in for some rising temps. However when the surfaces are mated exceptionally well I've found it to better then anything I've used to date.

EDIT: I shouldn't make genralizations like that above. It's ideal to have perfectly matched surfaces, isn't doesn't necessarily mean your temps will rise using the PCM+. Since i haven't used it on pre-lapped surfaces (YET) I can't say it would cause temps to rise. I can still say it's the best I've used out of five different brands, and several types per.

[Nanotherm]

Liquid3D,

Thanks for the feedback

[TheDude]

I want to get started testing the Heat transfer fluid...but...I don't have a mobo to use! I'm waiting on an RMA on my NF7-S and an MSI Canterbury P4 mobo. I have 4 Abit KX7-333's and the bios chips are hosed on all of them!
Anyone got a good bios chip for the KX7-333 they would sell or even loan me so I could hot flash mine?
Bear with me Scott....I'll put something together asap. Guess I could post it in the WTB section.

[Nanotherm]

TheDude,

No problem, bud. I'll be sending you the second prototype blend by the end of this week, so you'll have it sometime early next week.

Scott

[TheDude]

Scott,

Thanks, I should have the hardware problems sorted by then.
You guys ain't gonna believe this....my wifes old KR7a died during a flash an hour ago! I need bios chip for it and the KX7!

[[SLC]Tachyon]

I got some PCM+ but havn't put any on yet. Disconnecting my bong is a pain in the arse.

[Liquid3D]

Originally posted by TheDude
Scott,

Thanks, I should have the hardware problems sorted by then.
You guys ain't gonna believe this....my wifes old KR7a died during a flash an hour ago! I need bios chip for it and the KX7!

I have a KX7-333 and a few other boards you can borrow, maybe an IC7? If it's an urgency. I'm only in Rhode Island so I could probably handle shipping? PM me if your interested. I don't have the tool to remove the chip, but I have like five KT333 boards so your welcome to borrow any.

[sjohnson]

In case you don't see it in the other thread, I have a BIOS Savior with kr7a BIOS on it. PM me if interested.