AMD to demostrate Barcelona

[oldblue]

"Simulations conducted in AMD laboratories indicate that certain database applications will see performance improvements up to 70 percent and certain floating point applications will experience performance gains of up to 40 percent over platforms powered by current dual-core AMD Opteron processors."

This is almost certainly based on data presented by AMD several months ago at their "Virtual IT Experience." At InvestorVillage, they have screenshots (linked below).

"Certain database applications will see performance improvements up to 70 percent"

The Virtual IT Experience shows gains of 70% for OLTP. They do not specify what benchmark they used, but it has been widely speculated (and assumed?) that this is TPC. This is probably the source for the rumors (e.g. in this RWT article) that AMD claims a 10-15% TPC-C advantage with Barcelona.

"Certain floating point applications will experience performance gains of up to 40 percent"

In the Virtual IT Experience AMD predicted gains of 40% for specfp_rate2000. This is almost certainly where this number comes from.

What this tells us

The thing that interests me about both of these slides is that they suggest 10-15% better OLTP performance and ~30% (Some say 40%) better specfp_rate performance than a Xeon 5355. That's a 2.66 GHz Clovertown. There has been a lot of speculation that Intel will release a 3 GHz Clovertown this year, although to my knowledge Intel has never stated this. If they do, and we assume perfect scaling, the 3GHz Clovertown would be about 13% faster than the 2.66 GHz Clovertown. That would make it about the same as Barcelona in AMD's OLTP benchmark, and still significantly behind in specfp_rate.

What this does not tell us

AMD does not say what OLTP benchmark they used. It's been speculated that it's TPC, but then why wouldn't AMD just say TPC?

AMD also does not tell us the clockspeed of the Barcelona processor used for comparison. At this point, it's probably safe to assume that the Barcelona is the highest clock they plan on releasing in "mid-2007." We also don't know how the rest of the simulated platforms were set up.

These are quad-core server benchmarks, most likely selected to highlight Barcelona's strength. We don't know how Rev. H should do in other environments, although the rumor on these forums is ~10% faster than C2D per clock.

[The Ghost]

That is AS VAGUE as their "mid-2007" launch date. They could have picked ONE app that runs better. We just don't know.

Don't start spreading rumor as gospel, we don't have Benches in hand for even ES chips yet (and 2 people that have ES chips have said ~10% ON AVERAGE across the board, not 40%).

all i did was take a quote out of a page that you linked too , i did not start any rumors , what i linked to was in black and white , i have not seen anything else in black and white that proves that the info is false , or a rumor

[theteamaqua]

SO did they demonstrate it??

well 3GHz of this vs 3GHz of kentsfield.. i like to see that

as with 680i board u cant really fsb OC higher than 3GHz with kentsfield Q6600 or Q6400


unless nvidia some how find a fix for that

[freeloader]

Yes AMD demonstrated it. They demonstrated it saving power while running task manager!

Hey, someone had to say it!

[n91htmare]

Yes AMD demonstrated it. They demonstrated it saving power while running task manager!

Hey, someone had to say it!

or they saved more power by not running it at all

[theteamaqua]

umm i was talking about performance vs Xeon 5300s ... lol

[n91htmare]

all i did was take a quote out of a page that you linked too , i did not start any rumors , what i linked to was in black and white , i have not seen anything else in black and white that proves that the info is false , or a rumor

It has been discussed by your beloved Scientia that the 40% is multiple of 4 cores. That the performance of Barcelona will not 40% or even close to 40%....... What say you to that?
God forbid you say Scientia is wrong.

[Lightman]

It should overclock similar to the Brisbane (same production process). Probably 3 GHz on air if you are lucky.

I disagree.

Both are on 'same' production process, but Brisbane Revision G1 is using OLD transistor design (done for 90nm) which is severely slowing it down and incrasing power consumption. Barcelona is using new transistor design, more metal layers and every process addition AMD mastered in Dresden factory.

Best example is to look at voltage both cores are running on (for Brisbane it is 1.25V-1.35V@1.9GHz-2.6GHz):

A 65nm silicon-on-insulator process is used for producing the near-450-million transistor device, with dual stress liners and a silicon germanium process is used to speed up the pFETs. Eleven layers of copper and low-k dielectrics connect the device.

At 95 degrees Celsius, modelling suggests the processor will run at between 2.2 and 2.8GHz at 1.15 volts. Each of the four cores include eight temperature sensors. The on-chip northbridge contains a further six.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...&postcount=541

I will expect better overclocks from K10, especially dual core variants

PS. Off topic THIS IS MY 500 POST ON XTREMESYSTEMS!!

[gOJDO]

Rumors: the production process used for Barcelona is a little different from the one used for Brisbane. So, maybe a better OC-er, maybe worse or maybe same.
TPC-C and SPEC_FP are bandwidth and FPU dependent benchmarks and are not representing the real world. Especially SPEC_FP is not adequate benchmark to conclude how Barcelona will perform in server environment. Servers use software which depends mostly of the ALU performance. IMO K8L AL performance will be 10% faster clock for clock than K8, but slower than Core2.

[informal]

Rumors: the production process used for Barcelona is a little different from the one used for Brisbane. So, maybe a better OC-er, maybe worse or maybe same.
TPC-C and SPEC_FP are bandwidth and FPU dependent benchmarks and are not representing the real world. Especially SPEC_FP is not adequate benchmark to conclude how Barcelona will perform in server environment. Servers use software which depends mostly of the ALU performance. IMO K8L AL performance will be 10% faster clock for clock than K8, but slower than Core2.

As you said it gojdo,it's your opinion and since you saw none of the tests and benchmarks of the K10,it's worth zero.

[zakelwe]

LOL.



We would all have 3 posts if we didn't post rumor and "thoughts" here.

True. This phoney war has lasted too long, it will be a blessed relief to see the first benches and know for sure.

Regards

Andy

[The Ghost]

It has been discussed by your beloved Scientia that the 40% is multiple of 4 cores. That the performance of Barcelona will not 40% or even close to 40%....... What say you to that?
God forbid you say Scientia is wrong.

if you have something to say to Scientia , by all means go to his blog and post it

but nothing that any one has to say positive about amd would be OK with you

all we have is what amd has said for sure , anything else is not a proven fact

funny when intel said said how good it was going to do with the conroe , , what did iontel say it was going to be 40% better ? 80% better? but then agan intel was talking about better then it's own cpu

[The Ghost]

The problem with WHAT AMD said is it is INCREDIBLY vague. They didn't give the benchmark used. They didn't give the system and chip configuration used.

Intel at LEAST gave those things, and in a public demo of C2D last year let people use the machine (but not open it up).


MUST you flamebait EVERYONE here who disagrees with you? You could have said the EXACT same thing without being a .

didn't intel say the same thing about conroe , before it demonstrated conroe ?

how long before conroe was demonstrated was the numbers coming out on how good conroe was suppose to be ?

there was no flamebaiting in my post , but any one sho posts anything good about amd to you , is flame baiting

[irev210]

well, regardless of how they perform against one another... both AMD 65nm and 90nm are proven not to overclock nearly as well as intel 65nm.

So, for the enthusiasts (like us) it should be an interesting war. Intel must be nervous though if they want to get 45nm out the door 6 months early.

[nn_step]

well, regardless of how they perform against one another... both AMD 65nm and 90nm are proven not to overclock nearly as well as intel 65nm.

So, for the enthusiasts (like us) it should be an interesting war. Intel must be nervous though if they want to get 45nm out the door 6 months early.

you are comparing a 12 stage to a 14 stage processor on the field of max clock speed, while ignoring the fact that Intel has 6 months advantage in the 65nm Process.
Nice comparison.

[arisythila]

Werd™

I defiantly cant wait until Intel is back down on their knees.

Everything that Intel and I have been through, Im REALLY glad to see Intel the low dog.

~Mike

[madcho]

you are comparing a 12 stage to a 14 stage processor on the field of max clock speed, while ignoring the fact that Intel has 6 months advantage in the 65nm Process.
Nice comparison.

AMD has SiGe and DSL-SOI-3 and the new 65nm transistors, they will allow less power leakage. Brisbane use 90nm transistors

I expect that Barcelona will overclock at 3.5ghz on air, like kentsfield. .

Shangaih may do it at 4ghz. . Shangaih is on classic AMD's 45nm, but the next one will use imersion 45nm and High K . AMD is gonna clock very high

AMD said that +40% on clovertown benchs are not rare.

I can't wait 4 see a sandra benchmark of the Barcelona's FX

I'm just wondering me if the FX will use HT3 or old hypertransport . It Would great If AMD Get out a RD790+ bord E-ATX for the FXs with separate powerplanes.

Barcelona can do separate power planes, but actual motherboards F/AM2 can't. F+/AM2+ can

[nn_step]

AMD has SiGe and DSL-SOI-3 and the new 65nm transistors, they will allow less power leakage. Brisbane use 90nm transistors

I expect that Barcelona will overclock at 3.5ghz on air, like kentsfield. .

Shangaih may do it at 4ghz. . Shangaih is on classic AMD's 45nm, but the next one will use imersion 45nm and High K . AMD is gonna clock very high

AMD said that +40% on clovertown benchs are not rare.

I can't wait 4 see a sandra benchmark of the Barcelona's FX

I'm just wondering me if the FX will use HT3 or old hypertransport . It Would great If AMD Get out a RD790+ bord E-ATX for the FXs with separate powerplanes.

Barcelona can do separate power planes, but actual motherboards F/AM2 can't. F+/AM2+ can

what part of current Barcelona chips are about 3 months old and are missing a feature or two of the ones that you listed. You have to remember AMD always puts yields ahead of minor advantages. And the difference between AMD and Intel is that AMD is a Design company and Intel thinks of itself as a Manufacturing company

[ChongL]

AMD has SiGe and DSL-SOI-3 and the new 65nm transistors, they will allow less power leakage. Brisbane use 90nm transistors

I expect that Barcelona will overclock at 3.5ghz on air, like kentsfield. .

Shangaih may do it at 4ghz. . Shangaih is on classic AMD's 45nm, but the next one will use imersion 45nm and High K . AMD is gonna clock very high

AMD said that +40% on clovertown benchs are not rare.

I can't wait 4 see a sandra benchmark of the Barcelona's FX

I'm just wondering me if the FX will use HT3 or old hypertransport . It Would great If AMD Get out a RD790+ bord E-ATX for the FXs with separate powerplanes.

Barcelona can do separate power planes, but actual motherboards F/AM2 can't. F+/AM2+ can

Shouldn't a smaller process have MORE leakage...

[vitaminc]

Shouldn't a smaller process have MORE leakage...

That's why people are adding new features to the materials, like SOI, stranded silicon, high k dielectrics, etc, to offset some of the leakage problems.

[nn_step]

Shouldn't a smaller process have MORE leakage...

it largely depends on many factors, however just a dumb shrink would cause about double the leakage (for 90nm to 65nm)

[DoubleZero]

So quit telling me I HATE AMD when you don't know me from ADAM.

People aren't guessing when they say that, they are reading what you write... so when you got 5000 posts and at the 5001 you say "you don't know me" it's kind of funny.

[n91htmare]

People aren't guessing when they say that, they are reading what you write... so when you got 5000 posts and at the 5001 you say "you don't know me" it's kind of funny.

Unless someone comes out and says they hate amd, it's alls speculations and guesses.

I use an intel chip, because it gives me more bang for my buck. That doesn't mean I hate AMD or he hates AMD.

You know what's REALLY pathetic? When you offer more loyalty to a company, then to your wallet. Our biggest factor is $$$ as consumers. What gives me the best service at the lowest price is what I look at.
My last system was a 165 opteron, because it gave me the best performance at the lowest price. Now it's Intel E6300, again best performance at lowest price for me.
If a third company comes out and beats both intel and amd, ill go with them if their prices are lower.

If you chose to pay more $ for less performance just because you "hate" the competition is idiotic, and bad decision making IMO.

[VulgarHandle]

i wouldn't consider it to be idiotic to support the underdog so you good decision makers can continue to have choices to make those good decisions....

i do consider it to be idotic to call someone idiotic...wait, i think i just called myself idiotic....

in other words, ignorance is bliss... now can we get back to the discussion at hand?

was Barcelona demonstrated, or just talked about?

[DoubleZero]

Unless someone comes out and says they hate amd, it's alls speculations
and guesses.

Sure mate, I can be 100% racist, but until i come out a say i hate black people or whatever it's all speculation and guesses.

I use an intel chip, because it gives me more bang for my buck. That doesn't mean I hate AMD or he hates AMD.

Did i said that he was this or that based on what he uses? I think not... that must be the reason for you to need someone to come out and say... your intrepetation skills are weak...

You know what's REALLY pathetic? When you offer more loyalty to a company, then to your wallet. Our biggest factor is $$$ as consumers. What gives me the best service at the lowest price is what I look at.
My last system was a 165 opteron, because it gave me the best performance at the lowest price. Now it's Intel E6300, again best performance at lowest price for me.
If a third company comes out and beats both intel and amd, ill go with them if their prices are lower.
If you chose to pay more $ for less performance just because you "hate" the competition is idiotic, and bad decision making IMO.

Excuse but... why are you talking to me?

seems it's all ATIAMD can provide these days.
Blurry pictures of videocards, pictures of CPUs, and Task manager.

Oh i see, backing up a fellow fanboy...

DoubleZero got

I fail to see where that dumb post by your fellow fanboy could own me in any way...