*RAM* (FSB vs Timings) in P4C800 w/ 3.2 P4

[neyoung]

I'm building a new rig ...

I already have a 3.2 P4, Asus P4c800 -E Delux that I will be running with water cooling and Swifttech MCW5000-PT. I am completely torn as what type of memory will give me the best performance. I could buy 3200/3500 memory and get some good timings or go with 3700/4000/4200 and get very high fsb. Am I right in saying to an extent having better timings is better than a huge fsb?

I am considering either (Kingston, corsair, or ocz) and would like to get a few opinions as to what ram (brand and model) would give me the best performance with my setup.

[Bleam!]

A frined just told me that Intel isn't about timings

I would go with corsair twinx, because you can easely run 27X fsb on 1:1 with that proc with only 2.8V en standard timinjgs !

[neyoung]

So I would be better off if I went with some some of the higher fsb ram than with the quicker timmings then eh? Should I go with some corsair 4000 or ocz 3700 gold?

[Bleam!]

:x

ocz needs alot of ram to reach what corsair does on 2.8v

i would go for the pc4k corsair

[WildKard]

Definately get some OCZ PC3700 GOLD....or wait a bit and OCZ Should have PC4200 right around the corner...doot doot

[twiztdskatr]

OCZ 3700 GOLD is performing the best right now but it will put you out in the pocketbook. TwinMOS/Winbond BH-5 3200 is also worth a consideration and it is cheap.

I have mine doing 480Mhz + with 2-5-2-2 timings and 2.8v :thumbsup:

[macci]

Originally posted by Bleam!
A frined just told me that Intel isn't about timings

It isn't?

Guess I should tell this to my Intel too

[retrospooty]

Originally posted by macci
It isn't?

Guess I should tell this to my Intel too

I think what was meant by that is that you get more performance out of a higher FSB vs tighter timing

Say your ram will do 225 mhz at 2-2-2 or 250 at 3-4-4 250 is faster, just like your post , 300 at 2.5-4-4 is faster than 285 at 2-2-2

Usually, FSB wins out over timings.

[macci]

How did you figure out that 300 2.5-4-4 is faster than 285 2-2-2?

[retrospooty]

Well... your SSandra scores, and Pifast are anyhow... Also , not every platform or system will get psyco overclocked scores like you

In an average/modest overclock the difference is more noticeable... I ran a few tests back when I first got my IC7, but have since loaded 2 raptors in RAID, and I lost the data

But... suffice to say, (depending on the ram) if lowering the latency can get you 15+ more mhz, its going to be faster, if it can only get you 5-10 or so... its not.

[saaya]

canterwood and P4 are bandwidth beats... give em high fsb speeds thats what theyre built for.

[charlie]

Sandra unbuffered (real) is not better and 25.98 vs. 26.00...
within margin of error. Point to be taken...timings are everything.
So much for that "I'm gonna git me that new ddr540 that runs cas3,4,4,8"!!!!!!!!!!
Use the divider...run tightest timings possible.
The correct caveat is "Intel isn't about the divider"
C

[retrospooty]

Here is a link where a dood (our EVA2000) tested 233 at 2-3-3-7 vs 250 at 3-4-4-7 (the 1st and 3rd lines)
250 at 3-4-4-7 beats 233 at 2-3-3-7 in all tests.

http://www.fileshosts.com/pentium4/D...d/summary.html

Granted, since Intel CPU's are locked its getting more CPU at a higher FSB, but, that IS the way the Intel platform is working, and in the end more FSB+more CPU, is faster.

the whole thread is here... http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...415#post185415

Once I get some OCZ PC 4200, (like the day its available) I will see how fast I can get at 1:1 ratio with 2-2-2-6 vs 3-4-4-8 and post all the results... I think maybe 5:4 and 3:2 ram ratio's may yeild different results... Or perhaps different mobo's/bioses yield different results as well.

[SpicyHuevos]

General rule of thumb: #5
If you cant beat the mem speed buy 30-35mhz with relaxed timings.
Then you should go with the tighter settings.
I thought everybody new this?

[charlie]

Hasn't anyone ever noticed this before? Run a Sandra mem unbuf benchie at like 225fsb, cas2, 5,2,2 then 230, then 235...the numbers go up nice and neatly. Now go up to 240, but relax the timings...guess what? Lower Sandra. You've gotta' get yer fsb to like 245 before it matches 235 and tight...
This high mhz RAM is a SCAM. For example, the only processor where this ram MIGHT be useful is 3.2C and certainly the upcoming 3.4ghz at 17 multi and even then...maybe not. But for ALL you 2.4-3.0 guys out there...run high vdimm, pC3500/3700 like BH-5 at cas2, 2,2,5
C

[STEvil]

Trdd has a higher effect on memory bandwidth than cas, so there are some trade offs that can be made....

[retrospooty]

Originally posted by SpicyHuevos
General rule of thumb: #5
If you cant beat the mem speed buy 30-35mhz with relaxed timings.
Then you should go with the tighter settings.
I thought everybody new this?

True... I'd say its more like 15-20 mhz, but still true.

[Zroc]

Originally posted by SpicyHuevos
General rule of thumb: #5
If you cant beat the mem speed buy 30-35mhz with relaxed timings.
Then you should go with the tighter settings.
I thought everybody new this?

Not quite a general rule. With an 875P/865PE, you can beat well over 100MHz of memory speed with tight timings over relaxed timings.

[SpicyHuevos]

Originally posted by Zroc
Not quite a general rule. With an 875P/865PE, you can beat well over 100MHz of memory speed with tight timings over relaxed timings.

ok what am i missing here?


asus p4c800 mem @ 235 cas 2-5-2-2
asus p4c800 mem@270 cas 3-4-4-7
The 270 anhilates the 230 by huge margins.
same mem used for both settings
pcmark mem bench for
235 11932
270 12449

[OPPAINTER]

Originally posted by SpicyHuevos
ok what am i missing here?


asus p4c800 mem @ 235 cas 2-5-2-2
asus p4c800 mem@270 cas 3-4-4-7
The 270 anhilates the 230 by huge margins.
same mem used for both settings
pcmark mem bench for
235 11932
270 12449

Alot of those points are from your video card. When your running your card at 235 compared to when your running it with cpu/fsb way higher at 270 the Video points will add up.

OPP

[Zroc]

Originally posted by SpicyHuevos
ok what am i missing here?


asus p4c800 mem @ 235 cas 2-5-2-2
asus p4c800 mem@270 cas 3-4-4-7
The 270 anhilates the 230 by huge margins.
same mem used for both settings
pcmark mem bench for
235 11932
270 12449

I'll show you what I mean...
Is that P4C800 mem@270 3-4-4-7 you mentioned at 1:1?

[macci]

ok what am i missing here?

The CPU speed (and L2 cache speed) also affects the score. And at 270 your CPU/L2 is quite a bit faster than at 235.

[retrospooty]

No doubt, alot of the improved scores are due to CPU/Cache/FSB, not memory, but with this chipset, and these multi locked CPU's that DOES play a part in improved performance, and you cant make a perfectly equal test. faster=faster, so if your ram will crap out a a certain FSB with tight timings you MAY well be able to get a better score if you loosen them and raise the FSB, each system is different, and you should test both ways to see where your own sweet spot is.

[retrospooty]

I just ran a quicky test at 220 and 230 bus to see the results... The specs are as posted in my sig, I changed only the FSB and set the ram ratio to 1:1 for test purposes

P4 2.4C@ 12x220 (2640mhz) 2-2-2-5 - 1:1
Sisoft mem - 5264/5298
3dm2k1 - 18373
pcmark2k1 mem - 9800

P4 2.4C@ 12x230 (2760mhz) 2.5-3-3-7 - 1:1
Sisoft mem - 5454/5455
3dm2k1 - 18667
pcmark2k1 mem - 10072

Only 10mhz faster for the bus speed(with higher latencies), and its quite an improvement in overall speed.

[SpicyHuevos]

macci and opp you silly bastads
im talking 1:1 vs 5:4
280fsb 235mhz ram
270fsb 270 ram
pcmark scores at 272 1:1 vs 272 5:4
cas3-4-4-8-turbo
vs cas2-5-2-2-turbo

5:4
11189

1:1
12559