G80 De-Mystified; GeForce 8800GTX/GT

[***Deimos***]

I was jokin m8, while giving an example of crappy shadows!
Being a DX9 game, obviously DX10 wont fix it!

sometimes hard to tell if you are joking.
but, I suppose if a company like Bungie updated Halo, then Dice can update BF2 too ((HL1 source also comes to mind). Get it all Vista "compatible" and showcase those dark sily smooth shadows.. oh yeah baby.

Likewise with 3DMark2005.. especially apparent on the deck when the captain is looking out for the beast in game test 3.

But, ofcourse you'll only see these benefits if the hardware supports it... and I doubt folks would buy G80/R600 to relive the "classics".

FROM THE ARCHIVES:
I got so excited to see 4-5 trees at a time in Unreal2 preview.. I though wow, this is next generation technology. Yet, all those teaser clips and screenshots of HL2 and Doom3 looked absolutely incredible (back then). At least half the people discredited them as pre-rendered, or photoshoped. Then, I think it was March/APril 2004, OUT OF NOWHERE, Far Cry. My hippie pot smoking friend, eyez ablaze, turned down a reefer to barge into my room, and get me to download this "demo".. pff.. another bunch of screenshots or some stupid clip of "supposed gameplay".

My heart skipped a beat. OMG, I couldn't take my eyes of the screen. I spent hours literaly crawling through the vegetation. Exploring the island. Taking long luxurious swims. Probably took more in-game screenshots that day then all the years before combined! For such a long time, in all sorts of games, you "imagined" you were in a jungle (ex Goldeneye N64), or in a forest, or just walking on gravel or through grass... now, you no longer had to imagine.. it was there. Probably the 3rd religious awakaning, after seeing 3D for first time (Quake), and ofcourse the enchanting music and that memorable warthog in Halo.

[Pinnacle]

sometimes hard to tell if you are joking.
.

Well, stop being so serious all the time Deimos

[ANP !!!]

How much power Will this Tower really Eat up ?? They Say 300w, But i seriously doubt it. If yes, then they would fry like hell. Cant say about the R600 since they will be very hot. Will my OCZ 700w be fine powering 8800GTX.


Also was wondering, since this Card IS SUPPOSED TO BE VERY LONG, how long will be R600, (ATI say they will be the biggest Cards ever) OMG.

[Nanometer]

I don't like it when they release these school bus size cards. They are just bleh. I remember the 6800ultra, that was a huge card, then the 7900GTX came out and that was pretty big. Pretty soon we are going to need a case just for a GPU. It will be linked with a floppy cable haha.

[***Deimos***]

Pretty soon you will buy a video card and plug the motherboard into it!!

[Poodle]

How much power Will this Tower really Eat up ?? They Say 300w, But i seriously doubt it. If yes, then they would fry like hell. Cant say about the R600 since they will be very hot. Will my OCZ 700w be fine powering 8800GTX.


Also was wondering, since this Card IS SUPPOSED TO BE VERY LONG, how long will be R600, (ATI say they will be the biggest Cards ever) OMG.

Your psu should handle one at least. Quad Sli might not work though

[***Deimos***]

Your psu should handle one at least. Quad Sli might not work though

I doubt they would try quad again.. That whole project was doomed from the start. Direct3D games see little benefit over SLI, since typically only triple buffering. No limitation on buffers in OpenGL, but then again, not many games either. Quad SLI is just way too impractical, and inefficient.

However, even SLI G80 will surely be big burden. That's probably where they came up with the 250-300W figures. But, also remember you need at least 100-150W for the rest of the system, as well as demand response, and margin for stability. All of a sudden 500W+ PSU requirement doesn't sound crazy anymore.

And one other important thing.. heat. And not just the challenge of cooling G80 (dual slot heatsink or aftermarket water cooling). G80 SLI will surely stress other components too. Some special applications may generate huge PCIE bandwidth load. Chipset probably hotter than ever. Likewise, more CPU-limted scenarios, and more stress on the CPU. If PCIE slot is relied on for power, significant strain there too. And ofcourse, with nearly 500W total being used by the system, even an efficient 80% 500W powersupply will be putting out nearly 100W of heat, all by itself.

[spacemanspliff]

i wonder if there will be a gx2 version of the g80. aka a more effecient sli solution? who knows? it would be cool tho.

feeling better about my $230 7900gt(x) LOL

[STEvil]

Ah, so T&L is more a weaker less efficient form of what STMicro used in the Kyro series, though limited to the "frustrum". That makes more sense now.

Having mentioned STMicro, anyone else been keeping tabs on the things they've been doing? I poke over there once in a blue moon and saw a few rather interesting things..

EDIT - Looking forward to the panty pic, though there are bound to be more "entry level" consumer cards as well.. so maybe not.

[***Deimos***]

Ah, so T&L is more a weaker less efficient form of what STMicro used in the Kyro series, though limited to the "frustrum". That makes more sense now.

Having mentioned STMicro, anyone else been keeping tabs on the things they've been doing? I poke over there once in a blue moon and saw a few rather interesting things..

EDIT - Looking forward to the panty pic, though there are bound to be more "entry level" consumer cards as well.. so maybe not.

Perhaps you misunderstood me
there IS NO SUBSTITUTE for T&L (or TLC). Its an integral part of the graphics pipeline. Doesn't matter if you're using pixel shaders or vertex shaders.. those are add-ons. You're always doing T&L.

ST Micro Kyro chips had no T&L hardware acceleration. It was done in software, ie the CPU did the calculations. Games which dont have compatibility fall-back.. games that require hardware pixel shaders or T&L.. they will not work at all with the Kyro.

[guess2098]

the die is huge!!!!
using 1.1ns gddr3
it has something like HT build-in

[Vapor]

Is it at least small enough for a MCW60 to make contact with the whole thing?

[Starscream]

sometimes hard to tell if you are joking.
but, I suppose if a company like Bungie updated Halo, then Dice can update BF2 too ((HL1 source also comes to mind). Get it all Vista "compatible" and showcase those dark sily smooth shadows.. oh yeah baby.

ur kidding right?
Bungie didnt update halo2 they are just gonna put some code init so it will only run on Vista no other changes are done to it. It wont use Dx10 and it wont look anything fancier then ont he old Xbox. So to be short its a very easy job for a developer.

and Dice/EA will have Bf2142 out when Vista comes so i highly doubt theyl waste any energy on fixing or upgrading anything about Bf2 by then.
ya i guess they are the kind of company that will slap a Vista compatible sticker onit for a value version of Bf2 just to sell to the suckers out there but i doubt theyl fix anything once bf2142 is out.

[***Deimos***]

sometimes hard to tell if you are joking.
but, I suppose if a company like Bungie updated Halo, then Dice can update BF2 too ((HL1 source also comes to mind). Get it all Vista "compatible" and showcase those dark sily smooth shadows.. oh yeah baby.

EDIT: its very well possible... I didn't say they WILL do it.

[phelan1777]

I had an odd thought

Regarding the power connectors.


Okay so instead running two seperate PCI-e cables to two cards, what if.

It would use one cable, have a "jumper" to the second card.

Running two cards off of one PCI-e cable?

[Dublin_Gunner]

Once there's sufficient current on that rail, I dont see how that would become a problem.

I still fail to see why they would need 2.

[Helmore]

Once there's sufficient current on that rail, I dont see how that would become a problem.

I still fail to see why they would need 2.

The only reason for 2 connectors is because the specs don't allow you to draw more then 75W from a single connector, but I'm sure that you can draw 150+W from a single connector without any problems.

[Starscream]

sometimes hard to tell if you are joking.
but, I suppose if a company like Bungie updated Halo, then Dice can update BF2 too ((HL1 source also comes to mind). Get it all Vista "compatible" and showcase those dark sily smooth shadows.. oh yeah baby.

EDIT: its very well possible... I didn't say they WILL do it.

me asking if ur kidding is cause you say: bungie updating halo.
were did they update the upcoming Halo 2 for Vista.
the screenshots seen sofar look exactly like what it looked like a few years ago on the xbox. It hasnt been updated in anyway.

edit:
if ur updating is refered to directx or whatever.
dunno what Dx version Halo2 is/was but Vista will simply emulate it.

[guess2098]

just touch a died 8800GTX and 8800GT

the 8800GTX is crazy long. about 1.5inch longer than 7950GX2
i am 100% sure it is using GDDR3 1.1ns!
very nice card and fan is better than 6800Ultra!!

but it dead!!!!! lol

[vapb400]

gddr3? interesting

[theteamaqua]

im thinking of getting X1900 or X1950 crossfire when G80- comes out, they better make it so i can do it in less than $600 heh

[***Deimos***]

me asking if ur kidding is cause you say: bungie updating halo.
were did they update the upcoming Halo 2 for Vista.
the screenshots seen sofar look exactly like what it looked like a few years ago on the xbox. It hasnt been updated in anyway.

edit:
if ur updating is refered to directx or whatever.
dunno what Dx version Halo2 is/was but Vista will simply emulate it.

Bungie updated Halo for PC. I didn't say any more. I dont know why you insist that I prove something about Halo2 and Vista.. how did you come up with that?

Just saying, that sometimes, rarely, games DO get updated. Not always. Not always for Vista. Maybe not all Halo games. Please dont misunderstand.

The only reason for 2 connectors is because the specs don't allow you to draw more then 75W from a single connector, but I'm sure that you can draw 150+W from a single connector without any problems.

Quite frankly, I'm not up to date on PCIE.. their website requries registration to view the whitepapers and data sheets... however, I recall about the same values.. 75W from PCIE slot,and 75W from PCIE power connector. Also other websites state 150W from PCIE total.

As for the 6 pin connector, I think it only supplies two 12V lines... so for 150W, that would be 12.5A.. 6.25A per cable pair. That is a LOT. Perhaps not impossible. But, certainly would affect stability. (note: there is 2 molex to 1 PCIE Y connector)

From what I recall, X800XTPE uses up to about 3A from 12A on power connector. An overclocked 6800Ulltra uses 4.5A and even 5A. But, it has two power connectors.

I think there are some good reasons/explanations to use two power connectors on G80:
1. Multiple voltage regulators and buck converters like on 6800Ultra. A connector/voltage regulator.
2. Power supplies now feature multiple rails.. this way you can draw power from both and not overburden any single one.
3. More even power distribution, less signal noise, and higher stability.
4. Scare the competition!?

[***Deimos***]

Quote:
Originally Posted by guess2098
using up to 250W!!! full load for GTX ( single)
the water cooling G80 is going to cost around 900$ OMG!!)(not sure but it is what they are talking about today)

for GT is about 180W !!??

short supply for G80
using GDDR3???

Quote:
Originally Posted by ***Deimos***:
I think you're completely wrong... I'm so sure, that I'm willing to bet that if I lose I'll post photo of me in panties.

no pink panties for you
* it turns out in many games GTX uses about the same power as X1900XX/X1950XTX. And even in most power demanding situations hits 142-149W (depending on website review).
* G80 doesn't REQUIRE water cooling, let alone $900 worth, and uses a quite conventional heatsink.
* The GT in many cases uses less power than XTX, far far from 180W.
* short supply, reason why GDD3... only time will tell.

FYI: I find it very interesting which of my guesstimates were right/wrong.
80nm=NO. ~7900GT OC clocks at 1.25-1.3V to compensate for complexity=YES, 125-150W=YES, water cooler not required=YES, presumed still using vector units and hence 1.35Ghz ridiculous = DEAD WRONG... even though expecting the unimaginable, nVidia shocked even me... they really went all out!

[Dublin_Gunner]

I think there are some good reasons/explanations to use two power connectors on G80:
1. Multiple voltage regulators and buck converters like on 6800Ultra. A connector/voltage regulator.
2. Power supplies now feature multiple rails.. this way you can draw power from both and not overburden any single one.
3. More even power distribution, less signal noise, and higher stability.
4. Scare the competition!?

Actually, the reason is quite simple.

PCI-E spec allows for 75w per 16x slot, and 75W per power connector.
= 150W max for 1 power connector, but 8800gtx needs closer to 180W or so I believe, hence the need for the second PCI-E power connector, for a total max wattage of 225W

[***Deimos***]

some sites are reporting:

8800GT = 3 phase power
8800GTX = 4 phase power