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Thread: Sapphire A9RD580 Bug/Issues/Fixed

  1. #201
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    The P/N MOS drive strengths control the overall drive strength of the CPU's Memory I/Os. This will only affect memory overclocking and nothing else. The earlier Rev CG and Rev D CPUs didn't have much control of memory I/O drive strength. The Rev E CPUs had some control over data drive strength (listed in CMOS as a percentage reduction in drive strength). The Manta board offers the ability to change the total drive strength of all memory I/Os using the P and N mos settings for ALL CPUs. It also allows independent control of P and N mos allowing the possibility of asymmetric drive strengths. The Manta reference board is the only motherboard of it's kind with such sophisticated drive strength controls. No other board has it. The benefit?? You can always hit the optimal drive strengths for whatever CPU you have. Other boards allow finite control in steps. These steps are fixed and usually "tuned" to a specific CPU and memory type. Now you know what people mean when they say boards are "tuned" for specific memories. On Manta, all possible drive strength settings are possible so you can always pick the absolute best for your parts (CPU + RAM). The problem with boards that are "tuned" for specific parts is that another newer CPU always comes out and the memory drive strength is different than the previous ones. Even worse, CPU's will vary across their production lifecycles and the same settings that work on one person's board don't work best for another with the same CPU type. So we found that the best way to address the problem is to allow the user to select all settings, therefore he/she can always pick the best ones...assuming he/she spends the time to do it and knows what they're doing.


    Quote Originally Posted by learners permit
    Grayskull could you give a brief description of P/Nmos drive strengths and how it relates to O/Cing please?

  2. #202
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    Where can we learn how to get the most out of this setting since this is the only board that has it? Any references for certain CPU's and/or memory combinations that you are aware of?
    Sapphire Manta
    2 x 1Gig Mushkin Redline XP4000(3-3-2-6) 264Mhz
    Opty CCBBE 170 0610 @2.91Ghz Zalman 9700
    HIS X1900XTX IceQ3
    PC Power & Cooling 510ASL
    TrackIR 3 Pro

  3. #203
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    Thank you very much. I was thinking along those lines but it's very nice to have the confirmation. My Opty and this TCCD seem to prefer 6 where it's clocked now but further experimentation may reveal something different. Thanks again for the prompt response. It sure is nice having you in the forums. Anyone seen the nvidia rep?
    Gigabutt X58 OC F3 Bios
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    3x4 gigs Samsung 2Ghz 10,11,10,31@1.5V.
    3xSapphire 5870
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  4. #204
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    anyone who tried othes P/N mos exclusive 6 and 7 ?

  5. #205
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    For high speed E die CPUs, like FXs and good Opterons, try something asymmetric with P drive being higher than N drive. On one FX CPU that I can remember Pmos = 4 and Nmos = 1 gave the highest clocks. With a set of OCZ PC4800s Plats (TCCD) it would do 300 FSB 1:1 at 2.5-3-3-7 prime stable. Different CPU / memory combos will need different settings but for the most part with TCCD, you should be using something less than the default value of 6.


    Quote Originally Posted by learners permit
    Thank you very much. I was thinking along those lines but it's very nice to have the confirmation. My Opty and this TCCD seem to prefer 6 where it's clocked now but further experimentation may reveal something different. Thanks again for the prompt response. It sure is nice having you in the forums. Anyone seen the nvidia rep?

  6. #206
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    The best way to do it is to try it out yourself. Sorry no references that I know of. You guys can start your own reference thread. The quickest way to skip through all the options and get a rough idea of what is best is to run the ATI System Manager while running windows memtest. Boot up at settings that you know are safe and run windows memtest. Then slowly increase the htt clock until you are on the verge of errors in memtest, then change the Pmos /Nmos strengths to see if the errors go away. You can very quickly tell what is better and what is worse. You can do all this with the ASM. You have to do things slowly and in steps. Trying to raise the htt too fast or change the drive strengths too much will only lead to a hard hang.

    Quote Originally Posted by markr
    Where can we learn how to get the most out of this setting since this is the only board that has it? Any references for certain CPU's and/or memory combinations that you are aware of?

  7. #207
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    I have tried various settings from this post (particularly from xs64 and eXa who has the same cpu as me)
    but I Can't get the board to post with fsb over 240/245/250 (varies)
    My "old" Asus A8R-MVP did a rock solid 291fsb (fx60 speeds) so I know the components can handle it.

    This board is amazing in both looks and how many settings you can play with, only downpart is, I'm running my opteron 165 @ stock since it won't boot at all when I reach aprox. 240/250 fsb..

    Can anyone help me (this board is making me feel inexperienced :P lol as apposed to my "old" A8R-MVP wich I just raised Fsb and presto, Fx60 speeds :P

    I also made a Bios-reset switch (3 pins, 1-2 connected until i press the button wich disconnect 1-2 and connect 2-3 until I release it again)
    Bios resetting has never been this easy (out-of-case-bios-reset)

    My computer setup follows below.


    My computer specs:
    A9RD580,
    Mist 600W 4x 12v@20A
    2 x 512mb kingston hyperX 3500 ddr433
    Opteron 165 CCBBE
    2 x X1900GT (club3d/sapphire) in crossfire
    3 x hdd in Sata
    Sharkoon Card Reader
    Nec 3551 DVD/RW

    System Cooled by:
    Corsair Nautilus 500 Watercooling -> CPU
    Spirit II chipset cooler on the RD580
    and various fans to get airflow in and out through the case (front + side blows into case and a akasa pci slot cooler pulling the hot air out of the case.

  8. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by Changis
    .

    Can anyone help me (this board is making me feel inexperienced :P lol as apposed to my "old" A8R-MVP wich I just raised Fsb and presto, Fx60 speeds :P

    My computer setup follows below.


    My computer specs:
    A9RD580,
    Mist 600W 4x 12v@20A
    2 x 512mb kingston hyperX 3500 ddr433
    Opteron 165 CCBBE
    2 x X1900GT (club3d/sapphire) in crossfire
    3 x hdd in Sata
    Sharkoon Card Reader
    Nec 3551 DVD/RW
    Which bios are you using?
    Sapphire Manta
    2 x 1Gig Mushkin Redline XP4000(3-3-2-6) 264Mhz
    Opty CCBBE 170 0610 @2.91Ghz Zalman 9700
    HIS X1900XTX IceQ3
    PC Power & Cooling 510ASL
    TrackIR 3 Pro

  9. #209
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    the newest (april)

  10. #210
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    Quote Originally Posted by Changis
    the newest (april)
    I strongly suggest this one. NOTE it is a reference bios and not supported by Sapphire. However it works unlike any released by Sapphire.

    http://homepage.ntlworld.com/a.leach...manta15AMI.zip

    You will need to use F32A to flash it. "F32A biosfile /b"

    In bios at the Advanced tab, under Hyper Transport Config:

    NB HT Link Width is set to Auto or 16bit
    RD580 HT Drive Strength is set to Optimal
    HT Receiver Comp Ctrl is set to Optimal
    RD580 HT PLL Control is set to High Speed

    These settings are needed for high HTT
    Last edited by markr; 09-10-2006 at 06:43 PM.
    Sapphire Manta
    2 x 1Gig Mushkin Redline XP4000(3-3-2-6) 264Mhz
    Opty CCBBE 170 0610 @2.91Ghz Zalman 9700
    HIS X1900XTX IceQ3
    PC Power & Cooling 510ASL
    TrackIR 3 Pro

  11. #211
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    I have tried all drive strenths with the bios 14, and it makes a huge difference, unfortunatly i couldn't beat my ultra-d clocks with that bios, though im sure this terrific board has more in it. I've actually got about 6 pages in one of my notebooks with every strength tested on my classic bh-5... to bad i couldnt get it over 230 (235 limit ultra-d. my other corsair bh-6 runs at 260 in this, about 4 mhz higher in ultra-d, that is on bios 14, everything im told is 15 is much better.) I think i would have done much better with my new bh-5 or the infineon, the new b-5 looked promising but the infineon i never got stable over 230 (260 stable in other boards.)

    Too bad i cant get bios 15 then i could test all settings on infineon 2x1gb and any winbond memory around. Not complaining though, this is still my favorite 939 board for benching, clocks video like no other...

    I cant wait for RD600 ive already got cpu and ram here. ATI chipsets rock.

  12. #212
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    Thanks markr. I'll try that bios! but I have no floppy at the present.. so I'll have to borrow one.. btw, it Will work? or can I risk Kiling my board? can I flash it back after if the bios doesnt work?

  13. #213
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    Quote Originally Posted by Changis
    Thanks markr. I'll try that bios! but I have no floppy at the present.. so I'll have to borrow one.. btw, it Will work? or can I risk Kiling my board? can I flash it back after if the bios doesnt work?
    You can flash back to the Sapphire bios. You will need to use F32A to do the flash. You can flash with usb stick if too you have one. You can't kill your board but as with any bios flash you run the risk of corrupting your bios chip.
    Last edited by markr; 09-11-2006 at 07:13 AM.
    Sapphire Manta
    2 x 1Gig Mushkin Redline XP4000(3-3-2-6) 264Mhz
    Opty CCBBE 170 0610 @2.91Ghz Zalman 9700
    HIS X1900XTX IceQ3
    PC Power & Cooling 510ASL
    TrackIR 3 Pro

  14. #214
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    Quote Originally Posted by Changis
    Thanks markr. I'll try that bios! but I have no floppy at the present.. so I'll have to borrow one.. btw, it Will work? or can I risk Kiling my board? can I flash it back after if the bios doesnt work?
    Norwegian?
    Quote Originally Posted by iddqd View Post
    Not to be outdone by rival ATi, nVidia's going to offer its own drivers on EA Download Manager.
    X2 555 @ B55 @ 4050 1.4v, NB @ 2700 1.35v Fuzion V1
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  15. #215
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    si si, I live in Pole-Regret

  16. #216
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    hæ?

    you live where?

    Edit: Doh, ive lived there one year...
    Last edited by eXa; 09-12-2006 at 02:54 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by iddqd View Post
    Not to be outdone by rival ATi, nVidia's going to offer its own drivers on EA Download Manager.
    X2 555 @ B55 @ 4050 1.4v, NB @ 2700 1.35v Fuzion V1
    Gigabyte 890gpa-ud3h v2.1
    HD6950 2GB swiftech MCW60 @ 1000mhz, 1.168v 1515mhz memory
    Corsair Vengeance 2x4GB 1866 cas 9 @ 1800 8.9.8.27.41 1T 110ns 1.605v
    C300 64GB, 2X Seagate barracuda green LP 2TB, Essence STX, Zalman ZM750-HP
    DDC 3.2/petras, PA120.3 ek-res400, Stackers STC-01,
    Dell U2412m, G110, G9x, Razer Scarab

  17. #217
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    pole-regret = stav-anger

  18. #218
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    sorry for the wait (if anybody did) but here's an update:

    flashed the AMI bios, and it would finally boot all the way up to 291fsb with theese settings:

    "In bios at the Advanced tab, under Hyper Transport Config:

    NB HT Link Width is set to Auto or 16bit
    RD580 HT Drive Strength is set to Optimal
    HT Receiver Comp Ctrl is set to Optimal
    RD580 HT PLL Control is set to High Speed

    These settings are needed for high HTT"

    everything else left @ auto. (except for some troubleshooting)

    but @ 291fsb windows would bsod and restart before getting to welcome screen and the bios would lock up after changing random settings (like clock/date, 1 / 2 T, disable floppy etc) so now I'm running nicely @ 268fsb (2400) so is the motherboard getting hot? I have a spirit II chipset cooler on the NB, but there's only the slacky heatsink on the SB..

    Any Ideas?

  19. #219
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    Quote Originally Posted by Changis
    sorry for the wait (if anybody did) but here's an update:

    flashed the AMI bios, and it would finally boot all the way up to 291fsb with theese settings:

    "In bios at the Advanced tab, under Hyper Transport Config:

    NB HT Link Width is set to Auto or 16bit
    RD580 HT Drive Strength is set to Optimal
    HT Receiver Comp Ctrl is set to Optimal
    RD580 HT PLL Control is set to High Speed

    These settings are needed for high HTT"

    everything else left @ auto. (except for some troubleshooting)

    but @ 291fsb windows would bsod and restart before getting to welcome screen and the bios would lock up after changing random settings (like clock/date, 1 / 2 T, disable floppy etc) so now I'm running nicely @ 268fsb (2400) so is the motherboard getting hot? I have a spirit II chipset cooler on the NB, but there's only the slacky heatsink on the SB..

    Any Ideas?

    Did you FORCE the proper ram divider? Also lower HT multiplier to 4x just to be sure.
    Last edited by markr; 09-12-2006 at 06:20 PM.
    Sapphire Manta
    2 x 1Gig Mushkin Redline XP4000(3-3-2-6) 264Mhz
    Opty CCBBE 170 0610 @2.91Ghz Zalman 9700
    HIS X1900XTX IceQ3
    PC Power & Cooling 510ASL
    TrackIR 3 Pro

  20. #220
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    yes forgot to mention, I also tried (and are currently running @) forced 133/266ddr and 600mhz ht but other than that all those ram settings seem way to confusing. not like fsb clocking wich is just raising/lowering.

    so if anyone have som timimngs I can use (please describe what the numbers are, instead of the "techy" 2.5-7-8-5 or whatever)

    Cpu: opt. 165 CCBBE
    ram: Kingston HyperX 3500 433ddr
    thanks for excellent help so far

  21. #221
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    Can you post a A64info shot?
    Sapphire Manta
    2 x 1Gig Mushkin Redline XP4000(3-3-2-6) 264Mhz
    Opty CCBBE 170 0610 @2.91Ghz Zalman 9700
    HIS X1900XTX IceQ3
    PC Power & Cooling 510ASL
    TrackIR 3 Pro

  22. #222
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    here it is,

    btw. whats up with the 4 degree temp diff. between the cores?

    here are som ram info taken from kingston:
    KHX3500AK2/1G 1GB 434MHz DDR Non-ECC CL2.5
    (Kit of 2 - 512MB) 2.5-3-3-7-1 2.6V


    DATASHEET

    KHX3500AK2/1G
    1GB (512MB 64M x 64-Bit x 2 pcs.)
    PC3500 CL2.5 184-Pin DIMM Kit
    Kingston's KHX3500AK2/1G is a kit of two 64M x 64-bit (512MB) DDR434 CL2.5 SDRAM
    (Synchronous DRAM) memory modules. Total kit capacity is 1GB. The components on each module
    include sixteen 32M x 8-bit (8M x 8-bit x 4 Bank / 217MHz, 4.6ns) DDR434 SDRAM in TSOP
    packages. Each 184-pin DIMM uses gold contact fingers and requires +2.6V. The electrical and
    mechanical specifications are as follows:
    FEATURES:
    Power supply : Vdd: 2.6V ± 0.2V, Vddq: 2.6V ± 0.2V
    Double-data-rate architecture; two data transfers per clock cycle
    Bidirectional data strobe(DQS)
    Differential clock inputs(CK and CK)
    DLL aligns DQ and DQS transition with CK transition
    Programmable Read latency 2.5 (clock)
    Programmable Burst length (2, 4, 8)
    Programmable Burst type (sequential & interleave)
    Timing Reference: 2.5-3-3-7-1 at +2.6V
    Edge aligned data output, center aligned data input
    Auto & Self refresh, 7.8us refresh interval(8K/64ms refresh)
    Serial presence detect with EEPROM
    High Performance Heat Spreader
    PCB : Height 1.200” (30.48mm), double sided component
    PERFORMANCE:
    Clock Cycle Time (tCK) 4.6ns (min.) / 10ns (max.)
    Row Cycle Time (tRC) 55ns (min.)
    Refresh Row Cycle Time (tRFC) 70ns (min.)
    Row Active Time (tRAS) 40ns (min.) / 100,000ns (max.)
    Power (IDD0) 3.500 W (operating)
    UL Rating 94 V - 0
    Operating Temperature 0o C to 70o C
    Storage Temperature -55o C to +150o C

    If the Image Disappears Again, PM me and I will send it on request.

    (btw, I tried upping it back up to 291fsb, wont boot properly, down to 286/285fsb, boots, but occasional bluescreen.
    Now running at 277fsb (everything else is as the image shows, only +10 fsb) and no issues yet...

    anybody with some overclocking knowledge (seems I have less than I thought :P) please post Ram-Timings I can try. I'll be happy to dig up more info on my hardware if requiered.
    Last edited by Changis; 09-13-2006 at 08:19 AM. Reason: Pic disappeared overnight:mad: , uploaded to new server

  23. #223
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    Hey, there is the pic.

    Try changing that top row to your rams specs of 2.5 3 3 7 and then change comand rate to 1. Do this with A64info and then use ATISystemManager to change mem volts to 2.6v. Then you should be able to use ATISystemManager to increase HTT. I am sure there is more ram settings that need changing, but this is a start. If this allows higher clocks with stability you can then change them in the bios.
    Sapphire Manta
    2 x 1Gig Mushkin Redline XP4000(3-3-2-6) 264Mhz
    Opty CCBBE 170 0610 @2.91Ghz Zalman 9700
    HIS X1900XTX IceQ3
    PC Power & Cooling 510ASL
    TrackIR 3 Pro

  24. #224
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    Thanx for the reply. (uploaded img. here first, gone after a few hours, now uploaded to imageshack)
    Well, I'll prob. do it all in the bios (don't like software overcloking, bad experiences)
    Will test this out later tonight, (but for now, it's movie time )
    *all overclok and no play makes changis a dull boy*

  25. #225
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    A little update: Tried to play around with timings, only having to reset bios :S then I thought "maybe this board just needs a little guidance"
    so I changed the following settings:
    ddr limit @ 100mhz (might try upping it to 133, but will it give that much more of an increase?)
    Async lat. to 9ns
    Cmd 2T
    2.7V to ram
    NB HT Link Width is set to Auto or 16bit
    RD580 HT Drive Strength is set to Optimal
    HT Receiver Comp Ctrl is set to Optimal
    RD580 HT PLL Control is set to High Speed
    nb & htt @ 1.30V
    rest is on auto
    This is my result:


    Happy with that temps are 30-35 idle and 35-40 (tipping towards45 after long stress tests) all temps are in celcius.

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