IS7 vs. IC7: The true story, stock vs. overclocked

[Zroc]

Ok, so we've all been seeing the glowing reviews on first the P4P800, and then the IS7, with it's beta BIOS, matching or even beating the various Canterwood boards. I'd played with all of them, and knew that they didn't quite hold up when overclocking, but I wanted to put the numbers to it.

So...I took an IS7, with the latest beta BIOS (IS7_G13b4), and pitted it against the IC7 with the latest beta BIOS (IC7_025). These BIOS's are really comparable (both have the Gaming Acceleration options of Auto, Turbo, Street Racer, and F1).

I used the same hardware (exact same pieces) for both: 2.4C, 2x256 Kingston HyperX PC3500, Ti4200, XP Pro, no sound enabled, all the latest updates and drivers.

To start off with, I just ran Sandras, to get an idea what was happening. Both boards gave identical CPU-Z results at the same settings, which makes everything pretty easy....

1:1 Ratio
Auto/By SPD 2.5/3/3/8
200.5x12=2406
IS7- 4397/4408 | IC7- 4805/4681

...your typical big 875P/865PE difference. I will note that the new BIOS for the IC7 raised the bar quite nicely. Let's crank up the timings...

Auto/ 2/2/2/5
200.5x12=2406
IS7- 4506/4499 | IC7- 4862/4794

...gains by both. Nothing major from the timings, as we've come to expect from the 865PE/875P chipsets. Now let's crank up the 'gaming acceleration'...

F1/ 2/2/2/5
200.5x12=2406
IS7- 4992/4971 | IC7- 4923/4926

...shazam! IC7 actually gained (kinda surprised me), but the IS7 does what you've seen in all the reviews...jumps up past the IC7 in Sandra. Pretty dang cool, really.

Now, though, let's get to the heart of the problem: using the 5:4 ratio to overclock...

5:4 Ratio
Auto/ 2/2/2/5
200.5x12=2406
IS7- 4342/4341 | IC7- 4473/4450

...this is again pretty typical 865PE vs. 875P performance. Now let's F1 that sucker...

F1/ 2/2/2/5
200.5x12=2406
IS7- 4432/4434 | IC7- would not run

...right away, F1 will not run on the IC7. In fact, neither will street racer or turbo. Anything but Auto won't boot. However, notice now that the IS7, even with F1 acceleration, cannot beat the IC7 with zero acceleration. F1 gave the 865PE less than 100 points in either Sandra at 5:4, where it gave nearly 500 points at 1:1...in essence, losing the majority of it's 'PAT' boost (this is not really PAT, folks).

Now that we know what to expect, let's put a couple benchmarks to it:

IS7 1:1
F1/ 2/2/2/5
200.5x12=2406
Sandra- 4992/4971
QIII- 434.5
Comanche- 53.13
3DMark2K1- 12824

IC7 1:1
F1/ 2/2/2/5
200.5x12=2406
Sandra- 4932/4938
QIII- 434.6
Comanche- 53.56
3DMark2K1- 12781

So there they are at stock 200, 1:1, F1 acceleration. First, kudos to Abit on both new BIOS's...they brought nice gains (even outside of the acceleration stuff, really). As for the scores...nearly identical. IC7 takes QIII and Comanche, IS7 takes Sandra and 3DMark, and none of those differences amount to a hill of beans. Still, quite impressive what they've done with an 865PE, at least at stock. Now, 250 at 5:4...

IS7 5:4
Street Racer/ 2/2/2/5
250.6x12=3007
Sandra- 5477/5511
QIII- 494.7
Comanche- 61.40
3DMark2K1- 13768

IC7 5:4
Auto/ 2/2/2/5
250.6x12=3007
Sandra- 5515/5557
QIII- 510.1
Comanche- 63.54
3DMark2K1- 13867

Street Racer is the best the IS7 could pull off at 250 FSB. In fact, all those settings basically start melting away the higher you go in FSB...Street Racer quit working around 260, Turbo died off at 265. Again, though, even F1 didn't do a whole lot at 5:4, but it's worth noting.
Still and yet, the IC7 beats the IS7 by roughly 3% in QIII and Comanche, and 1% in 3DMark (the Ti4200 is really holding back any differences there). And that's the IC7 with no acceleration, IS7 at Street Racer. Those differences will widen slightly the higher you go, as you have to drop the acceleration settings (this is why I don't really care about the IC7's lack of acceleration, either...you won't be able to use them at high FSB's anyway).
This is the almost the exact same thing macci found comparing the P4C to the P4P...he noted that he needed more that 300 FSB at 5:4 on the P4P to beat his P4C800 at 300 3:2 (the drop from 5:4 to 3:2 is roughly 2.85%, so it's right on par).

Well, that's it in a nutshell...the 'PAT' 865PE's basically revert back to normal 865PE operation once you drop down to 5:4 and start overclocking. You'll basically see 3-5% differences between the two, scaling upwards as you go higher in FSB and have to dump acceleration (which doesn't matter to much with 5:4 to begin with).

I liken this debate now to the memory decision. If you're at stock speed, just go with whatever. If you're going to overclock, spend the money, and get good memory. Same with the motherboards...if at stock, it doesn't really matter, but if overclocking, spend the money on the 875P.
However, the difference between the IC7 and IS7 is only $27 currently, where good memory would cost you a lot more than that.

Sooo...I'd say just go with the IC7, and take one less worry out of your life.

That's my report for the week...have a good weekend.
Cheers

[Creative]

Very nice Zroc...

Would u agree that the results would have been in the favour of the IS7 moreso if the IC7 didnt get this new recent bios also?

This comparison has made me tempted to update to the IC7 but I like having the LAN on the IS7....and its a top mobo Im just dont want to fork over the cash for the -IC7-G when I wont use the extra features besides the LAN....maybe I should just go the IC7 vanilla and use a NIC


Again, nice comparison and you too enjoy your weekend

[MCWB]

Top stuff, as always Zroc! Excellent findings!

Creat: Just go a 4PCA3+, 875 with lan and volts for the same price as the IC7... hehehe

[jaawood]

IC7 looks like a winner, but the price performance ratio has to be better on the IS7 than IC7, wouldn't you think Zroc? I mean, the IS7 @ $109 vs. the IC7 at $140, for the average overclocker the IS7 would perform very well.

[Zroc]

Thanks fellas

Creative: Nah, if one already has an IS7, I wouldn't get an IC7 just to get that 3-5% in general. Some would, naturally...or if you could sell off your IS7 for the same price your got it, sure.
Heh, I figured most people had NIC's lying around...ah well, they're $10. IC7-G is really only worth it if you use gigabit lan or want to run more than two hard drives.

Of course, I'd get the IC7 just for the looks...I have a window, and the IS7 is kinda ugly, imo

jaawood: Price/performance? Tough call...at major distro, the difference is less ($26 difference), which will translate if you look hard enough. Still, that's 20% more for 3-5% performance, so you could definitely say IS7 is a good bang-for-the-buck deal.
FWIW, I think the IC7 has a nicer package (rounded cables and stuff that matches the board).
Still, people spend a LOT more than $20-30 on memory or power supplies and such to try to get 3-5%...so in that sense, I think the 875P chipset is worth it. See? It goes both ways...

Bah...I'll toss out the facts, and let ya'll handle the decisions

[jaawood]

good point about the looks - that is an important point i hadn't considered. i see your point about the cost/performance ratio for the mobos and other hardware as well. i guess i should say that for me the IS7 would be shweet because i could get a nice overclock, but i wouldn't be at the top of the 3D mark charts. the IC7 could take you there

[Creative]

Zroc thanks for the reply

Ive got a 3com nic lieing around so thats ok.....but as you said I dont really know if the upgrade would be justified. Id only get the IC7 vanilla so maybe the $75AUD it would cost after selling board to upgrade might be worth it?

Im a 3dmarker and if the IC7 is scoring ~350 points more then Im all for it!!
heheheh

[Kunaak]

nice article and comparison. well done.

[Shane5578]

its proved and proved again that canterwood beats sprindale at higher fsb's

well done zroc.

can you do unbuffered benches next time

[mdzcpa]

Greta job Zroc! I'm gonna be linking this thread all over the net. This is exactly what I've been trying to tell other folks I'd seen happening, but no one had put it together concisely...until now

I think I'd have to rate the IS7 as the bang for the buck champ....that's just my opinion. For those on a strict budget, it's definitely the board to get. For those crazies (like us ) who spare little expense to have the absolute best, the IC7 is the way to go.

Side note...thumbs up to Abit for tweaking out these boards!

[Shane5578]

but didn't prom say the sprindale overclocked a little more, matching the performance of canterwood.

[oplix]

heres the thing...IS7 + OCZ Gold = Winner...Why? Because right now I can run IS7 at 255 FSB 1:1 (2.5.5.3.3) without problems. And that's not even using the beta bios. Doing these numbers on the beta bios in say F1 I can get some crazy sandra scores. Oh and the "Gigabit" Lan on my IS7 is nice too ^_^

[BrainStorm]

Zroc, nice comparison - except for one thing. You didn't test which one could get the best scores topend period. If the 2 boards are that close at the same settings...what if you could get a better fsb oc on the IS7 than the IC7? I liken this to testing memory at top end with tight timings vs. top end with looser timings (allowing higher speed) and seeing which comes out on top.

Again, nice article, but could you do a little further testing and add which can do the best topend fsb (ie., forget keeping them at the same settings)? I know this makes it harder because all sorts of variables potentially now come into play, but I'm still interesting in seeing it.

EDIT: And believe it to be very relevant to the "which one to buy" question.

EDIT #2: As is rightly pointed out below by Alexandrus, if you are cpu limited, this is info all you need to make your decision. So the additional testing I've asked Zroc to do is only relevant if you are not cpu (or memory for that matter) limited. Forgot I'm not in AMD land (with changeable multis) anymore But I'd still like to see a top end comparison where the neither the cpu nor the memory is the limiting factor.

[Amoeba Assassin]

well done

[Alexandrus]

Good to know, because I was really tempted to go out an buy an IS7-G or 4PDA+ over IC7-G or 4PCA3+, but now I know not to do that. Thanks.

[BrainStorm]

Originally posted by Alexandrus
Good to know, because I was really tempoted to go out an buy an IS7-G or 4PDA+ over IC7-G or 4PCA3+, but now I know not to do that. Thanks.

This is exactly what I'm talking about in my post above...I don't think you do know not to do that yet...because it's still possible that you can overclock the FSB higher on the IS7 than the IC7 and get equal or better overall performance for less money even though clock-for-clock the IC7 is better. That's why I've asked Zroc to test that.

[Alexandrus]

Yes, could be, but I don't care because I already know the max potential of my CPU, and I won't reach the limmits of the mobo

[BrainStorm]

Ok, if you already know you're cpu limited, that's another story. In that case, going for the mobo with the best clock-for-clock performance makes perfect sense.

[althes]

good review, thanks.

[WildKard]

This is good info, but there is more to this than meets the eye! ZroC himself said "The performance boost goes away when you switch to 5:4" but what if you dont have to?

What if I have ram(OCZ PC3700 GOLD) That does 266FSB and a P4 3.0C that clocks in at 4GHZ in a Prometeia

In this situation running 1:1 would the IS7 still beat the IC7 because of the F1 settings? Since its apparent you only lose the edge when you use the memory dividers

[Zroc]

Thanks guys:

@oplix: see, in your specific case, I would think you'd DEFINITELY want the IC7. Looks at the tremendous differences between the IC7 and the IS7 without acceleration.
And here's the thing: ANY acceleration on the IS7 does NOT work if you choose CAS 2.5. No other settings affect it, but if you choose CAS Latency 2.5, even at stock 200 FSB, F1, Street Racer, or even Turbo will NOT boot.
At 1:1, that's a HUGE deal for the IS7 (all timings 2/2/2/5):
F1- 4992/4871
Street Racer- 4912/4924
Turbo- 4903/4932
Auto- 4506/4499

As you can see, it's the Acceleration period at 1:1 that gives the IS7 it's kick. There's a 400 point difference between Auto and Turbo, and less than 100 between Turbo and F1.

So take that into consideration, folks...at whatever point your memory stops working at CAS Latency 2, so will Acceleration, which is the main thing that gives the 865PE it's 'kick'.

@Brainstorm: I understand, but that's not the point I was trying to make with this little write up. Max overclock varies WAY too much. What will work for me won't necessarily work for you.
The ONLY way to determine which boards would overclock the most is to take at least 10 of each board (more like 50, and from different batches), different memory, different procs, and different cooling. The maximum I could accomplish with MY individual setups would not apply to what anyone else could do.

What I've done here (and what I typically do in ANY of my write ups) is show what will happen to ANYBODY trying the same thing.
It's more of an information thing that applies to everyone.
Understand?

@WildKard: Look at what I told oplix, as it applies. Wherever your memory stops working at CAS 2 is where memory acceleration also stops, because NO acceleration (turbo, street racer, F1) will boot at CAS 2.5. And at 1:1, turning off acceleration on the IS7 is a BIG hit.

[gouda96]

even though it might not paint an accurate picture, i would realy like to see the scores at the highest fsb you can get from each.

[Tedinde]

I cant get past 315 fsb out of mine 3780mhz in my Vapochill, I've got a MCW-50t on my 9700pro, Im waiting on a NB block to see if it will go higher.

I also have a IC7 on the Way.

Anyone haveing any problems getting an IC7 over 300fsb, since the Silicon is supposed to be the cream of the crop over the 865's??

[gouda96]

so if i wanted all out oc and preformance (using pelts) which would you suggest i get, the ic7 or is7?

[Zroc]

gouda96: I actually tried. The problem is, I could not get the IS7 to complete 3DMark at 2/2/2/5 timings with Street Racer at even 253. And using Street Racer at 252, it failed Prime95, and corrupted my OS (literally corrupted...as in, I could no longer boot to the OS at stock speeds/SPD timings/no acceleration).
And then it corrupted the OS again at 252 2/2/2/5 with Turbo.

This, naturally, is disheartening.
So for me, these Acceleration settings are basically unusable beyond 250. I suspect they'll be unusable for ANYBODY at a high FSB.

Which leaves you with a plain-jane 865PE.

Which brings me to another conclusion: I feel these Acceleration settings are actually dangerous. Getting a hard-corrupted OS is no laughing matter, particularly for those that don't backup/image regularly.