Originally Posted by Fred_Pohl
i never said it wasn't. im actually planning on getting one sooner or later.
but dont just expect because intel came out with an awesome chip (and i do mean that) that AMD wont be able to do the same thing
i never said it wasn't. im actually planning on getting one sooner or later.
but dont just expect because intel came out with an awesome chip (and i do mean that) that AMD wont be able to do the same thing
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Fred_Pohl...if you don't like what nn_step has been saying, don't be a hipocrit and come out and say that K8L won't be something GREAT. We know so little about K8L at this point that unless you have one and benched it, there's little way to judge it.
All we really know at this point is that it'll make AMD more competitive than they are right now.
Damn you, now i have to play it.
I have been owned for so long with my 2600 +, so i'm numb. Whatever core i buy out there, will cost the half and do minimum the double, so i'm just a happy man.
PS (Rosetta insider)
Mine version is with levithan's jumping instead of lemmings, it's only available for turtles.
Now he jumps weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
~Opinion about Dogs~~~~~~~Hug~~~~~~~~
~~~~
________________________________________________
I'm not writing AMD off by a long shot. I'm just saying that based on what is presently known about K8L, it doesn't appear to be capable of more than potentially matching C2D on a 'per MHz' basis (with the possible exception of FP). IMO it's quite a stretch to even imagine that K8L could equal C2D's ~25% per MHz advantage over K8, much less your K8 vs P4 performance per MHz analogy.
http://www.realworldtech.com/page.cf...WT060206035626
http://www.realworldtech.com/page.cf...0906143144&p=1
When you finish those, I have more.
I'm sorry, but what do those prove? Yeah, they list architectural changes and describe ad nauseum about the new-fangeled guts of K8L....but where does it show us how fast a K8L is? We don't know IPC inprovement, we don't even know clockspeeds....how, based on some list of fairly unprecedented architectural changes, can you determine how it'll perform?
Are those two write-ups even definitive? Absolutely not!
Yes, we can see some of the (potential) changes, but we don't know what they do for us, we don't know what they will cost us, etc. A few months ago, if someone had listed Yonah vs. Conroe in these terms, would we know that it would severely alleviate the CPU bottleneck in multi-GPU configs? Did we know we'd see single-digit SPi times? We weren't even dreaming of it....
K8L is nothing more than a (partial) spec-sheet right now....don't be hipocritical and call out nn_step then just make a counter claim to what he's saying.
Honestly, the proof that the K8L is not anything at this point is because you haven't seen one. It's the simplest proof there is. Not an engineering sample, not one test that even hints at what it might do. Believe me with what AMD knows is about to happen with the advent of Conroe, if they had something to show, they'd have done it, if just to stop a portion of the tide.
Could AMD do better in 9 months or a year (an envelope where they would not necessarily have a sample currently)? Yes. But anything 6 months from now that doesn't have a sample to test is vapor. And with what they know the market is doing right now, there would be leaked tests galore IF they were available. And they aren't.
This lay of the land now doesn't change for at least a year, imo.
$.02
You're right. I forgot to mention the magic performance enhancing pixie dust that AMD has worked into their K8L sSOI formula.
If it's too early to speculate about potential K8L performance based on what is known about it, is it not also too early to speculate about K8L performance based on speculation about undisclosed, undocumented, potential K8L core improvements?
When conore comes out many will get conore. Then AMD will come up with a counter attack then many will get AMD. The cycle goes on and on.
.02
It's a good kind of pain Thrilla :p
yes. it is too early to speculate.You're right. I forgot to mention the magic performance enhancing pixie dust that AMD has worked into their K8L sSOI formula.
If it's too early to speculate about potential K8L performance based on what is known about it, is it not also too early to speculate about K8L performance based on speculation about undisclosed, undocumented, potential K8L core improvements?
for all you know, K8L might not *need* to match C2D clock for clock. for all you know, K8L could run at 20 ghz. for all you know, K8L will be the best thing since sliced bread.
there is nothing truly known about K8L right now, so stop saying that it'll at best match C2D. for all we know, it'll utterly dominate C2D. for all we know, it may not.
WE KNOW NOTHING!
Not really thier design K8L for the most part has been done for a while and the main design team has moved on to the next main problem and the secondary design team is tweaking it for the retail marketYou're right. I forgot to mention the magic performance enhancing pixie dust that AMD has worked into their K8L sSOI formula.
If it's too early to speculate about potential K8L performance based on what is known about it, is it not also too early to speculate about K8L performance based on speculation about undisclosed, undocumented, potential K8L core improvements?
Fast computers breed slow, lazy programmers
The price of reliability is the pursuit of the utmost simplicity. It is a price which the very rich find most hard to pay.
http://www.lighterra.com/papers/modernmicroprocessors/
Modern Ram, makes an old overclocker miss BH-5 and the fun it was
Speak for yourself.
There's a lot of info available about K8L. You must be thinking of K10.
So K8L is on schedule for mid-2007 production, as AMD claims? If so, then we do know a lot about what K8L will bring to the table.
That is however highly inaccurate. AMD has gone to great pains to:
1) Hide the details of K8L
2) Spread false rumors to convince Intel that they have a huge lead
3) Allowed false speculation, inorder to catch the market off guard.
Fast computers breed slow, lazy programmers
The price of reliability is the pursuit of the utmost simplicity. It is a price which the very rich find most hard to pay.
http://www.lighterra.com/papers/modernmicroprocessors/
Modern Ram, makes an old overclocker miss BH-5 and the fun it was
Considering that would be a year of serious losses on the books NN Step, on what basis would they do those things?
ROFL! That's funny!
You remind me of another AMD fanboy I've known for 8 years now. Every time AMD is behind, he starts talking about top secret AMD CPUs that are ready to go at a moment's notice. He's been saying the same thing for 8 years and he's never been right even once.
By any chance do you subscribe to his theory that 65nm K8L "Conroe Killers" are ready to launch any day but AMD is holding them back until they clear out their existing inventory?
Maybe AMD is cleverly keeping K8L top secret to get their stock price under $15? That will really help them with their acquisition of ATi...
If you knew anything about AMD's history of product releases you would realise that AMD release next to 0 information on new products not even any leaks as they are much stricter than Intel. I'm not saying it makes business sense in any way or that it is the case, I am simply saying this is standard AMD, we didn't know anything about AM2 performance until 1 week before release!!
P.S. watch the fanboy comments.
nn_step did say AM2 hasn'tr even began to show its true performence, s7eph3n(sp?) said it to, AM2 is a socket, not a processor, With K8L being able to work in AM2, id say AM2 has alot to show
Fold for XS!
You know you want to
Dude you call him a fanboy go ook in a mirror. You act like you are payed by intel. For all you know he is right. Mabye not mabye he is. I know one thing for sure EVENTUALLY AMD will beat intel again mabye in 1 month mabye in 2 years nobody knows.ROFL! That's funny!
You remind me of another AMD fanboy I've known for 8 years now. Every time AMD is behind, he starts talking about top secret AMD CPUs that are ready to go at a moment's notice. He's been saying the same thing for 8 years and he's never been right even once.
By any chance do you subscribe to his theory that 65nm K8L "Conroe Killers" are ready to launch any day but AMD is holding them back until they clear out their existing inventory?
Maybe AMD is cleverly keeping K8L top secret to get their stock price under $15? That will really help them with their acquisition of ATi...
Are you serious? Since when doesn't AMD release info about new products? I knew all about AM2's performance several months before it's release. It was all over the WWW for months. The first rumors of K8 appeared in 2000. K8 was even on AMD's roadmap in 2001 and supposed to ship in H2-02! AMD is very quick to release info when they have something good. It's only when they have nothing that they keep silent and the fanboy rumormill starts working overtime hyping things like vapor RHTT, etc.If you knew anything about AMD's history of product releases you would realise that AMD release next to 0 information on new products not even any leaks as they are much stricter than Intel. I'm not saying it makes business sense in any way or that it is the case, I am simply saying this is standard AMD, we didn't know anything about AM2 performance until 1 week before release!!
P.S. watch the fanboy comments.
Last edited by Fred_Pohl; 07-23-2006 at 03:56 PM.
Apparently you also believe in magic pixie dust and top secret AMD cpus that they are just waiting to spring on the unsuspecting evil empire of Intel when the time is right. Whatever, dude...
I'm still looking for the roadmap that AMD released in 2000 that shows K8 shipping in 2001. However I did find this one showing 1H-02. AMD started hyping K8 (Hammer) to the press in 2000, began releasing architectural details in 2001 and included it on their roadmaps for years before they finally sold one. So much for AMD new product secrecy, eh?
Last edited by Fred_Pohl; 07-23-2006 at 04:41 PM.
And we got how many days notice before Venice replaced Winchestor?
Fast computers breed slow, lazy programmers
The price of reliability is the pursuit of the utmost simplicity. It is a price which the very rich find most hard to pay.
http://www.lighterra.com/papers/modernmicroprocessors/
Modern Ram, makes an old overclocker miss BH-5 and the fun it was
Several months actually. Same as with X2 and AM2.And we got how many days notice before Venice replaced Winchestor?
Here are some interesting links concerning AMD's new product secrecy:
http://www.geek.com/news/geeknews/20...0305018973.htm
http://www.tomshardware.com/2002/02/...amd/index.html
http://www.amd.com/us-en/Corporate/V...53~751,00.html
Last edited by Fred_Pohl; 07-23-2006 at 06:13 PM.
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