F die Micron and the truth on speed yield.

[Tony]

OCZ have been testing f die for a good few weeks now, we were a little disturbed to see competitors posting results of this die running 300fsb or close to it...fact is after we tested hundreds of kits the average speed is no where near this.

We lauched the product under the part number OCZP5002GXTC-k this denotes DDR500 XTC heat spreaders and K for kit.

We Guarantee the kits will run ddr500 at 3-3-3-8 timings, the info you all want to see is how much higher it will run over this.
Now, i have been testing for 2 weeks here, and the max stable i have seen from my kits is 262 to 267fsb 3-3-3, back at OCZ average speed is around this also, some kits will do 280 but these are in the minority over the total amount of kits tested. I imposed a max vdimm limit on all the boards tested here at 2.8V, this included Ultra D, eXpert, Venus, RDX200, Manta(ATI) A8R32 MVP (Asus ATI), i used 148 Opty, 165 opty, 3700+ E6, 4000+ E6, 3000+ E4, 3200+ E4 and a 4600+ X2, ram speed was within 1fsb over all the CPU's i tested. I also used 520W powerstream, new 600W Evo stream, and 700W game extreme PSU's all from OCZ, the PSU made NO difference to my clocks.

Now im not going to post tons of sandra screenies, 3D benches etc to show it is 260fsb stable as i see no point. i think most of you here will trust me when i say it is totally stable at this speed but not much more. I will be updating the prime stable data base over at the OCZ support forums to reflect the testing i have done here so you can take a look over there in a few days if you want to see stock settings etc.

Trust me when I say i tried all the tweaks being reported here to get higher clocks, the ONLY tweak that ramps the fsb up is Vdimm. If you are willing to juice it up it does respond to voltage quite well but going by what happened to D die i would say you would do well keeping a max of 2.8V or lower just to be safe.

OCZ's take on F die is its a worthy DDR500 product, its not the best we offer as we feel our 4000EB is a lot nicer and price wise will be more competitive with the rebate 's we are putting in place. If you want full balls out speed get the CE5 based 4000EB, if you want a cool running kit for DDR500 usuage or a little higher then the 4000Plats are nice also. We have good stock of both and will continue to test speed yield and i will report if any batches of either product show huge speed gains so you can jump and and grab whats hot.

Im open to talk about my findings and OCZ's take on F die etc. I spoke with Ryan at length regarding our stance and what you see here is OCZ being as truthful as we can with the end user with regard to the products we offer.


Tony

[Nephilim]

Interesting, so the majority of <=300MHz clocks people report are at voltages that are likely to reduce the life span of the F die?

Any news on what actual changes to the die were made between D and F? I noticed newer crucial ballistix tracers were less responsive to volts and generally ran cooler, but not quite as scalable. Also -5B G runs cool in my testing, but I haven't tried any -5B F.

Keep us posted if you uncover more interesting info about these new dies and of course tell us about other products that show higher performing yeilds

[Tony]

I could have OCZ send me a cherry pair, post here and BS you all into thinking F die can run huge speeds, but im not like that and neither are OCZ. i spend weeks making sure end users are getting close to or better than the speeds i report on forums so that we suffer no backlash from end users. We saw some issues recently over 4000EB and looked after all customers who had poor overclocking experiences, so we are committed to CS especially when it comes to the enthusiast but we want these end users to remain level headed.

I have no idea if 3V will kill F die, i will say it comes from Micron, D die suffered from voltage and Overclocking stresses resulting in many kits dying so i would advise caution.

[Major]

Once again thanks for the info Tony, and the honesty !!

[ivo0613]

Thanks, Tony.
Really appreciated.

[SkunK]

...We lauched the product under the part number OCZ5002GXTC-k this denotes DDR500 XTC heat spreaders and K for kit...

Don't you mean OCZP5002GXTC-K? I'm asking because in this thread it was said that there would be two new kits: one Platinum and one Gold.

[Tony]

Don't you mean OCZP5002GXTC-K? I'm asking because in this thread it was said that there would be two new kits: one Platinum and one Gold.

Quick on the typo catch there Skunk, thanks bud

[CapFTP]

Thnx Tony for your fast response to my PM....and mostly for your and OCZ honesty towards users....

Mostly I think 80% of end user is not so blind and can understand quite better where real average limits is....this for UCCC, infineon or micron whatever Ic we speak of...

[Moto450]

Thanks for the Truth about these I run the 4000 EB's and love them and was wondering about getting a set of the OCZ micron to test but I think i will stay with my EB's for now and just grab 1 more set of them for my other sytem Thanks again for the info...........

[ahmad]

If average is 260MHz, I'll stick with my EB (at 272MHz game stable ).

Thanks Tony.

[xs64]

Sry for Off topic , but there is no EB in Germany ? only Plat EL , Gold , Gold GX XTX ???

[Vassili]

Thanks, Tony.
Really appreciated.

Indeed, I agree with ivo0613.

Sry for Off topic , but there is no EB in Germany ? only Plat EL , Gold , Gold GX XTX ???

http://www.overclocking-ram.de/pd112...?categoryId=92

[xs64]

http://www.overclocking-ram.de/pd112...?categoryId=92

thx alot

[Pyr0]

We saw some issues recently over 4000EB and looked after all customers who had poor overclocking experiences, so we are committed to CS especially when it comes to the enthusiast but we want these end users to remain level headed.

how were the customers with poor overclocking experiences looked after?
my plat eb only clock to 258-259MHz before they start acting very strange and my monitor flicks on and off constantly, i've since tried other kits and the monitor is fine

also, when will we see the new 600W Evo stream, and 700W game extreme PSU's from OCZ on sale?
do you have any details about the new supplies?
will they still feature adjustable rails?

[bachus_anonym]

Thanks for posting this information, Tony! I always appreciate vendors's honest view on what OCing potential there is to be expected on average from particular product line. Good move and thanks for your conclusions

[Tony]

how were the customers with poor overclocking experiences looked after?
my plat eb only clock to 258-259MHz before they start acting very strange and my monitor flicks on and off constantly, i've since tried other kits and the monitor is fine

also, when will we see the new 600W Evo stream, and 700W game extreme PSU's from OCZ on sale?
do you have any details about the new supplies?
will they still feature adjustable rails?

Some of the EB's were doing below 250 game stable, so we swapped them. The weird issue with the Infineon is they will respond with voltage and clock quite high..BUT, the 3D max remains about the same what ever the voltage give or take 2 fsb max.

We moved the lower yield CE5 to 3700EB, most will still do 250 but its not tested to the same specs as the 4000 and it does come from a lower bin. its still a good buy though for 3-3-2 timings

PSU's are on the way, im beta testing the 600 and 700W gamer units, i have a 600W Evo here and the 700W is in pre production stages. Its looking good for April or so please stay tuned.

[Pyr0]

thanks Tony

[ozzimark]

I have no idea if 3V will kill F die, i will say it comes from Micron, D die suffered from voltage and Overclocking stresses resulting in many kits dying so i would advise caution.

D was 110nm, F is 95nm. i'm sure there's other tweaks internally other than a straight die shrink, i honestly wouldn't put more than 2.8v into a 95nm IC for 24/7.

also, i feel partially responsible for the misconceptions on what the F can do. sorry guys
let's hope:
1. micron gets yields up
2. replaces 5b F with something else soon (5b H would be cool )

[SnipingWaste]

One thing OCZ is having problems is I think there not the first ones to order the rev F ICs. It could be they got the left overs. Before we give a verdict we need to see some resoults from other retail brands first.

[nn_step]

Im open to talk about my findings and OCZ's take on F die etc. I spoke with Ryan at length regarding our stance and what you see here is OCZ being as truthful as we can with the end user with regard to the products we offer.

Tony

and that right there is why I still buy OCZ

[leo5111]

why we as the consumer arent entitled to know the IC of the chips we buy?? "micron" cough, cough....

[xgman]

Tony is right on target with his assesement of this product as far as my own experience with the same ocz "F" die sticks and the team sticks of the same "F" die is concerned. I do think the old micron dies had more headroom but they aren't being made anymore as far as I can tell.

[foodfightr]

I could have OCZ send me a cherry pair, post here and BS you all into thinking F die can run huge speeds, but im not like that and neither are OCZ. i spend weeks making sure end users are getting close to or better than the speeds i report on forums so that we suffer no backlash from end users. We saw some issues recently over 4000EB and looked after all customers who had poor overclocking experiences, so we are committed to CS especially when it comes to the enthusiast but we want these end users to remain level headed.

Tony I wish this board had reputation points because I would give you a million. This is by far the most honest ram post I've seen in a long time.

Good to know that OCZ is thinking one step ahead. I'm running G.Skill right now, but I had my girlfriend purchase 2GB of OCZ soley because I think OCZ has thier stuff together when it comes to customer service, ethics, etc.

[kimandsally]

I could have OCZ send me a cherry pair, post here and BS you all into thinking F die can run huge speeds, but im not like that and neither are OCZ. i spend weeks making sure end users are getting close to or better than the speeds i report on forums so that we suffer no backlash from end users. We saw some issues recently over 4000EB and looked after all customers who had poor overclocking experiences, so we are committed to CS especially when it comes to the enthusiast but we want these end users to remain level headed.

I have no idea if 3V will kill F die, i will say it comes from Micron, D die suffered from voltage and Overclocking stresses resulting in many kits dying so i would advise caution.

Very nice Tony and just the reason I recommend OCZ, at the moment I'm running G Skill but onlt because he OCZ wasn't available at the time of purchase.

But in future I will stick with OCZ purely for the customer service and honesty, I'm looking forward to seeing the new PSU's is there anywhere I can see the spec?

[Tony]

One thing OCZ is having problems is I think there not the first ones to order the rev F ICs. It could be they got the left overs. Before we give a verdict we need to see some resoults from other retail brands first.

Valid point, i firmly believe many will see 260 to 270 but not much more.

But end user results are what we need from all manufacturers.