Any news on the PA120.x?

[Marci]

And PA120.1 / PA120.2 now released and available!

[canislupy]

Call me crazy, but I just bought two PA120.2's.

[fareastgq]

I'd like to see a head to head comparison against a 302 core and a pa120.2, I'll drop 100 bucks for a few degrees better

[fareastgq]

A PA120.3 would be about the same performance as a PA160.2, and about the same size too. There's no real point making a PA160.2, you'd just get a PA120.3 instead, and a PA120.3 would be easier to fit into cases like a CM Stacker or whatever within the drive bay cage.

I need to have 5 bays though for use, pa160 times 2 would be the same length as a pa120.3?, the core needs to be the same length as a 302 core for my needs. this is in a 7077 case. I guess I'll have to look at the length later.

[Bloody_Sorcerer]

160 x 2 = 320
120 x 3 = 360
pretty close

[fareastgq]

Hrm, I'll have to get rid of a bay

[Marlowe]

Good prices! And availability before promised

Now I must try to resist pushing that order button ..and instead wait for the new series of HW Labs radiators and for someone to benchmark them both. I for one will not order anything based solely on rumor before some real benchmarks tick in.

Any words on how HW Labs are doing?

[situman]

I just ordered a PA120.3 from the UK. Does it come with shrouds or do I have to get my own?

[mjassbong]

Does not come with shroud. I ordered the HE shroud to hopefully make it fit with PA120.3

[Aielman]

I don't think it's going to fit in my case with a shroud, unfortunately. Not unless I want to give up 3 bays. It's 5 1/2" deep with shroud, rad and 38mm fans...7" if you go push pull.

peace,
Aielman

[Cathar]

I don't think it's going to fit in my case with a shroud, unfortunately. Not unless I want to give up 3 bays. It's 5 1/2" deep with shroud, rad and 38mm fans...7" if you go push pull.

Don't sweat it. Performance difference shrouded vs unshrouded is fairly minimal (~2%), or at least that's what I saw with the prototypes.

I found fans pushing to work better than fans pulling, by around 2-4%.

The radiator really does just fine with 25mm thick fans.

Putting 25mm thick fans directly on the radiator in a push mounting is not going to cause any pain at all, and IMO, is about equivalent to having a shroud and the fans in pull-mode.

[Aielman]

Originally Posted by Cathar
Putting 25mm thick fans directly on the radiator in a push mounting is not going to cause any pain at all, and IMO, is about equivalent to having a shroud and the fans in pull-mode.

No kidding...well that's good to know. Thanks Cathar. I was just sitting here looking back and forth between the new 7077b that was delivered today, and measurements for the new PA120.3, and kicking myself for not buying a MM UFO, heh. 3.5" depth for the PA120/25mm fan setup will leave me clearance over the PSU so I don't have to give up the bays up front.

I had planned on mounting an lcd from a 6" tv in the top 3 bays, and then mounting some plexi below it, and above the PSU to create a wind tunnel effect in the top of the machine to vent the warm air from the rad out the back. Then mounting a 120mm fan on the plexi to pull warm air from the lower chamber up and out as well.

This might just work if I can figure out how to do it, heh.

Thanks again.

Peace,
Aielman

[BRiT]

Great job Marci! and ThermoChill!

Quick question, will the HE120.x series fan mounting templates work for the PA120.x series? I imagine it should, given the PA120.x series is said to be compatible with the Fan Grills and Fan Gaskets. [http://www.thermochill.com/guides.php / http://www.thermochill.com/guides/TCHE120Templates.pdf]

[MaxxxRacer]

Stew,

any theories on why the fans are working better at pushing rather than pulling on this rad? Seems to be a complete turn around from previous radiators...

[thegreek]

when will these be on sale in the USA, I checked danger den but they still don't have them...?

[snowwie]

MR, swiftech and corsair kits have been selling with fans pushing on rad, including the swiftech APEX kit, and I don't think it has just been because the manufacturers don't know any better

edit: asetek and innovatek ship their kits with fans pushing on rad too

[MaxxxRacer]

snowwie, it was widely accepted that pull was more effecient....

[Cathar]

Stew,

any theories on why the fans are working better at pushing rather than pulling on this rad? Seems to be a complete turn around from previous radiators...

Both Derek (Phaestus @ Procooling) and I have observed this on different rads, not just the PA's.

[MaxxxRacer]

interesting... you have any idea which characteristics of the rad make it more suitable for push than pull..

im gonna take a wild guess here, but lower airflow resistance rads like push, while high air resistance rads like pull..

[Marci]

Quick question, will the HE120.x series fan mounting templates work for the PA120.x series?

Yep they'll work fine. Fan center to fan center measurement is the same.

[snowwie]

snowwie, it was widely accepted that pull was more effecient....

I know that...I'm just saying, by whom?

[Cathar]

The differences between pull and push have always been very minor, ~2% or so by those who have actually measured in the instances where pull was found to be better.

For the PA rads I noticed that push was better, and again by a small margin, ~2%. We're not talking BIG differences here.

I suspect that the reasons for why are two-fold (or perhaps more-fold).

1) The air coming off the fan blades is fairly turbulent. This is perhaps helping out the more open-finned radiators slightly. Perhaps those who measured better performance in pull-mode were noticing that against more densely finned radiators where laminar flow is fairly quickly established once the air enters the fins (ignoring the effects of fin louvring here).

2) The Thermochill radiators have a better default fan stand-off distance from the core, and so the differences between shrouded and unshrouded are fairly small as noted, as well as perhaps evening the score between pull and push modes somewhat?

I'm just reporting what I saw. Again, the differences were not big, and it may be measurement error, but I saw the same phenomena repeated across the various PA prototype cores I have here. Go figure.

[MaxxxRacer]

Cathar:

I do suppose that makes sense. Number 1 that is. Number 2 is possible, but afaik Rod tested the 2-302 with his shroud and it performed better with pull rather than push. So that kind of puts some evidence against that.

As you mentioned 2% isnt much and really shouldnt effect the user one way or another.. What I mean is that ur average user would never tell the difference between push or pull and should not be concerned with which way to have it. Just mount it in the most convienent way possible.

snowwie: by most everyone that I talk to in the WC'ing community.

[snowwie]

I was acknowledging that most watercoolers/hobbyists understand and accept that pull is better....but i'm asking why not the professionals (swiftech, asetek, etc.)? I'm saying that it may be that they are right and we hobbyists are wrong.

now obviously it has been tested many times by many hobbyists that pull works better for heatercores for whatever conditions they are testing under, or so that's how it goes. But no one stopped and said: "hey, you know, pull isn't always better, sometimes push is"

as you just said already in this thread, everyone accepted that pull is ALWAYS better. I just don't think we should be suprised to hear cathar say "hey you know you guys don't have to worry about a bulky shroud and/or pulling, push works fine with this rad"

[Bloody_Sorcerer]

I'm not surprised. while i'm not a physics major, i can't think of a good reason for why pull would be insanely better than push (with cage blower fans, i can think of reasons...). The fact that the difference is so tiny and immaterial isn't very surprising either.