some dude got a good stepping 3000+ winny off ebay for $100. OEM but still thats one heck of a deal. Retail winnies should be about $120. Now when Venice first becomes in stock, I wouldnt be supprised if it was twice that or $240 for a 3000+ retail example with higher speeds of course costing an arm. It may be a month before a 3000+ Venice settles down to $180 but then winnies will be much cheaper $100-120 or so. Is it worth paying $60-100+ or 50-100% more for a 3000+ Venice instead of a 3000+ winny? We dont yet know how well the speed binned 3000+ may do but weve seen in the 2.9GHz for the 3800+ examples. I doubt the 3000+ will clock quite as well as the 3800+ simply cause its not as good silcon. Lets say 2.6 to 2.7 is relistic. This would not help those with good winchesters but itll help most CBBID guys and those with really weak winny ondie controllers. My winny does 289x9 for 3dmarking with 2x256mb and 262x9 with 2x512. I could just run it at 305x8=2.44 with ram on 166 divider running at 244MHz for 24/7 gaming. I know with Venice, I am likley to be able to run like 289x9 1:1 if the ram itself can handle that. Yes I do like Venice and am looking forward to it but I never realized how cheap winnies have gotten on ebay!