I'm wondering about how well it'll cool because the whole point of phase change is the compression phase, which massively increases hotside temps and heat removal.
That said, it's not trying to achieve sub-ambient CPU temps - so it may well outcool regular airsinks - and have the added benefit that there are no condensation issues.
Be interesting to see - but it doesn't look like they've used any kind of sealing.
'
- Infinity NF2 @ 10 x 257
- (3 x 256MB) - Dual Ch. 10-2-2-2 3.0
- 9800 XT - 3DMk '01 = 20,000, '03 = 7,000, '05 = 3,000
r134a?
That doesnt evap/condense at 30-50c....
All along the watchtower the watchmen watch the eternal return.
It will still work, when it heats up it will become less dense and thus lighter than the gas in the top of the tube, the hot gas will travel up and the cooler gas will fall down.
I never read the included link untill now, according to the press release there isn't actually any phase change going on, it just used "phase change principles". Using a gas for cooling can be consided a "phase change principle". They are a little deceptive, but still legally correct.
Last edited by craig588; 03-17-2005 at 02:45 AM.
For those of you about to post:
so unfortionatly, dispite them calling it phase change it's just a heatpipe no?
I mean lets check the working of a heatpipe:
-Tube
-with gas in it
-gas evaporates at "higher" temperatures
-hot gas rises up and the cooler gas falls down.
thus transporting heat away from proc.
Now lets check the micro's working:
-Tube
-with gas in it
-gas evaporates at "higher" temperatures
-hot gas rises up and the cooler gas falls down.
thus transporting heat away from proc.
It'll cool nice espesially seeing the price and that it has heatpipes but the phase change thing is really stupid of them to call it like that. everyone expects temps of at least 20°C or say 10°C above room temp but noooooo :p
they just use a heatpipe filled with another gas .......
Gees
Last edited by Entity_Razer; 03-17-2005 at 11:25 AM.
Replace condesenses with 'evaporates'.
EDIT -
In fact maybe you were more :banana4:
Last edited by Rippthrough; 03-17-2005 at 11:28 AM.
Lol yhea missed that one
Gonna be fast to edit that
There is no condensation or evaporation occoring, it is all based on the ideal gas law, PV=nRT
For those of you about to post:
Other heatpipes have had oil in them rather than gas. I wonder which is better at removing heat ? I thought liquids were far better ?
Regards
Andy
What about building such cooler with R134a and pull a vacuum to make it evaporate at like 25-30 degrees celsius?
Blue Dolphin Reviews & Guides
Blue Reviews:
Gigabyte G-Power PRO CPU cooler
Vantec Nexstar 3.5" external HDD enclosure
Gigabyte Poseidon 310 case
Blue Guides:
Fixing a GFX BIOS checksum yourself
98% of the internet population has a Myspace. If you're part of the 2% that isn't an emo bastard, copy and paste this into your sig.
What you guys want to look up is thermal conductivity. When I was looking up info for that post I remember looking at "oil" and noticing it had a high thermal conductivity or specific heat capacity value.. this would depend on the type of oil, and i'm not 100% which of the two it was.. I should have made note of it in the post.
Read this. http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...965#post742965
This also ties in with the Zalman thread here: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...302#post765302
All along the watchtower the watchmen watch the eternal return.
Originally Posted by alexio
You mean pressurising it? Vacuuming would only lower the evaporation temperature.
Maybe someone should buy one and install a peircing valve onto a pipe and hook a pressure gauge up to it.
For those of you about to post:
Does it act like water where more pressure causes seperation of molecules and Vacuum causes increased density?
All along the watchtower the watchmen watch the eternal return.
http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=11425
check it out.. one of the members knows what it actually is.. the whole phase change thing is total garbage... it doesnt even change phase...
Yep they are just using their repuation and name reconigtion as a phasechange company to sell some fancy looking air-cooled heatsinks. The sad part is lots of people will end up buying these sinks and claiming they have phasechange.
Depending on what exactly is in the tubes, they will.
The problem is everyone associates heatpipes with phasechange, which is a load of bullocks.
All along the watchtower the watchmen watch the eternal return.
stevil.. its the name game... heatpipes are techincally a phase change... but so is me boiling water.. :P:
but hey, there are lots of ppl who are uninformed and will buy this... sadly its not so much their fualt...
Thats what i'm talking about, though, even you've bought into it!
They are only phasechange if they contain a phasechange material! If its full of only a gas or only a liquid its not phasechange!
All along the watchtower the watchmen watch the eternal return.
What's a "phasechange material" ?
Every known substance is phasechange capable - from Hydrogen to Lead.
In action, there WILL be two phases - liquid refrigerant in the return pipe and gaseous refrigerant in the hotside.
The important thing is the refrigerant used.
Obviously water would be useless, with a 100C boiling point - but a commercial R-refrigerant should be quite effective.
Sure it won't cool to sub-ambient without a compressor in the loop, but the key parameter is how heat is conducted away at operating temps.
Using a gas allows heat to be transferred further than it would be through the fins of a conventional sink - allowing the use of a much larger convective surface area ... a bit like the difference between an air-cooled and a water-cooled IC engine.
Last edited by Y.H.Pats; 03-19-2005 at 02:20 AM.
'
- Infinity NF2 @ 10 x 257
- (3 x 256MB) - Dual Ch. 10-2-2-2 3.0
- 9800 XT - 3DMk '01 = 20,000, '03 = 7,000, '05 = 3,000
A phasechange material is one that is allowed to change its state of matter.What's a "phasechange material" ?
Depending on the Specific Heat Capacity, surface area, surface tension, and Thermal Conductivity, and assuming the cooler and material used both remain within its wokring temperature zone...In action, there WILL be two phases - liquid refrigerant in the return pipe and gaseous refrigerant in the hotside.
The important thing is the refrigerant used.
Obviously water would be useless, with a 100C boiling point - but a commercial R-refrigerant should be quite effective.
Sure it won't cool to sub-ambient without a compressor in the loop, but the key parameter is how heat is conducted away at operating temps.
Using a gas allows heat to be transferred further than it would be through the fins of a conventional sink - allowing the use of a much larger convective surface area ... a bit like the difference between an air-cooled and a water-cooled IC engine.
What i'm getting at is that if you fill the heatpipe completely with a liquid, it has no room to expand and cannot change states readily. Most gases have horrible characteristics for heat capacity and thermal conductivity, so assuming they allow transfer of the heat energy further than just copper is false depending on the application.
All along the watchtower the watchmen watch the eternal return.
But it's not filled entirely with liquid.
'
- Infinity NF2 @ 10 x 257
- (3 x 256MB) - Dual Ch. 10-2-2-2 3.0
- 9800 XT - 3DMk '01 = 20,000, '03 = 7,000, '05 = 3,000
Sure, but there's a combination of gaseous transfer and solid conduction up the pipe.
'
- Infinity NF2 @ 10 x 257
- (3 x 256MB) - Dual Ch. 10-2-2-2 3.0
- 9800 XT - 3DMk '01 = 20,000, '03 = 7,000, '05 = 3,000
Edit: I spent too long typing, this is supposed to be in response to STs post.
You are a little bit wrong, a proporly designed an executed heatpipe system might work better than staight copper. (I havn't personally tested it so I say might) No computer heatpipe sytems are done proporly yet. They need to be a tube that is either virtical or very close to it.
You give the pipe a little squirt of gas, not nearly enough for it to liquify. When the gas at the bottom heats up it will expand, becoming less dense and at the same time compress (Not nearly to a point of liquification, I'm not trying to imply that at all) the gas at the top of the tube so it becomes more dense. The hot gas rises and the cooler gas falls.
The less distance something needs to travel the more effective it is, so these coolers that have heatpipes without fins right over the CPU (Like the Zalman 8000 and the Gigabyte 3d cooler, not to mention both of those coolers have horizontal and effectively useless heatpipes) should not perform as well as those with fins right on the CPU such as the XP90/120 or Zalman 7700. Heatpipes should only be added to an already successful design, not have a design based around them.
Last edited by craig588; 03-19-2005 at 03:11 AM. Reason: clairification
For those of you about to post:
No, there won't. PV=nRT Higher temperature = more pressure = less density. It is a sealed tube so the volume will never change. I acctually said this earlier in this very thread, but I too sometimes just skip to the last posts and read those.
The hot side will push on the cold side giving it higher pressure make it it more dense. To reach equilibrium the gasses will want to raise the hot one and lower the cold one. They will do this automatically on their own. If you don't belive it you can do it with liquids, take a tube and put it in a glass of water untill it reaches the bottom, take some cooking oil and pour it down the tube then blow through the tube to make sure it gets into the glass. (It would normally want to stay above the water in the tube because it is less dense) You can watch it rise to the top on its own. The same thing will happen with gasses. The hotter side will be less dense and rise.
For those of you about to post:
It sems to be a good cooler.
I have a good enermax 92mm, which i could change so i can run really quiet or loud for benchs. Do you think there will be a noticiable differens from 30cf/m to 50cf/m with this cooler?
AMD 3500+, Geforce 6800LE@16/6 1.42v 459/955
Geforce 6800LE power!
#2 in 3mark01 29.3k #3 3dmark03 13654p 5626p 3dmark05
Well, it's not. Just put that high CFM fan on the Zalman to replace the crappy stock one. (50CFM isn't that much for a 92MM fan, you should buy one in the 70-80 CFM range, any louder than that will be rather loud at 92MM)
For those of you about to post:
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
Bookmarks