The Sandy Bridge Preview (Anand)

[Calmatory]

I trust Anand when he said that's done without Turbo. He knows his job.

His job was to do a marketing stunt for Intel to downplay Bulldozer. Based on some older Intel stuff, I agree that he really knows his job, quite well even. Not necesasrily something I appreciate in this industry though.

[kl0012]

60 W power usage delta for 80 SP core? What and where!?

SB cpu - 63W system idle, 121W system load.

Fixed.

[Calmatory]

SB cpu - 63W system idle, 121W system load.

Fixed.

Ah, my bad.

[v0dka]

So. No more clocking of the bus speed. Only multipliers if you shell out extra cash for a K type CPU. Else you will have to settle for a few turbo multi's. And they took out memory clocking in the same nightmare scenario move. Someone change the threads title because this is the real news.

I'm amazed that there is no outrage here. People actually defend it. I guess the blind adoration of a company really has no limits for some.

Bullldozer here I come.

[Calmatory]

Well, back to basics then. It makes sense for Intel if they really do so. And good for AMD. At least I couldn't give a damn about overclocking, since these days it isn't necessary really, as it isn't necessary to have $500 CPU to play a game with proper FPS. $120 will do just fine. Then again, I'm running fine with single core 1.6 GHz Celeron M with no hickups in daily usage, so I don't know a about the new stuff and my view might be a bit biased on this regard.

[Sam_oslo]

His job was to do a marketing stunt for Intel to downplay Bulldozer. Based on some older Intel stuff, I agree that he really knows his job, quite well even. Not necesasrily something I appreciate in this industry though.

I personally believe AnandTech is one the most serious and impartial sites out there. They may make mistakes too, but they have at least tested these CPUs and documented all of it before talking about it.

What do you say about people who never touched these CPUs or Bulldozer, but are accusing a well documented test based on wild assumptions?

[rado992]

So. No more clocking of the bus speed. Only multipliers if you shell out extra cash for a K type CPU. Else you will have to settle for a few turbo multi's. And they took out memory clocking in the same nightmare scenario move. Someone change the threads title because this is the real news.

I'm amazed that there is no outrage here. People actually defend it. I guess the blind adoration of a company really has no limits for some.

Bullldozer here I come.

What extra cash? You don't appear to be running on a tight budget, so if the rumor about the $200 i7 2500K turns out to be true, I dont know what the problem would be. IMO It all depends on how they handle the K-series CPUs on LGA2011 since that's the real enthusiast platform. I'm not defending anyone, multi overclocking is nowhere as fun as FSB overclocking, and you don't increase RAM performance, but if it's still faster than BD, I don't mind getting one to replace my trusty Q9550@3,9GHz. If BD turns out to be as fast/faster and more fun, my money will go to AMD this time round. It's as simple as that, really.

[v0dka]

Well, back to basics then. It makes sense for Intel if they really do so. And good for AMD. At least I couldn't give a damn about overclocking, since these days it isn't necessary really, as it isn't necessary to have $500 CPU to play a game with proper FPS. $120 will do just fine.

Overclocking might not be needed at any time, but it sure does increase performance and the lifespan (in the sense of time before an upgrade) of a CPU. And it's not all about fps. Games that do simulation (Supreme Commander to name one) easily bring a 4Ghz i7 on it's knees. Not to mention that there is more in the world than gaming.

What extra cash? You don't appear to be running on a tight budget, so if the rumor about the $200 i7 2500K turns out to be true, I dont know what the problem would be. IMO It all depends on how they handle the K-series CPUs on LGA2011 since that's the real enthusiast platform. I'm not defending anyone, multi overclocking is nowhere as fun as FSB overclocking, and you don't increase RAM performance, but if it's still faster than BD, I don't mind getting one to replace my trusty Q9550@3,9GHz. If BD turns out to be as fast/faster and more fun, my money will go to AMD this time round. It's as simple as that, really.

I dont see why they would release a K type CPU for only a marginal amount extra. That would defeat the whole purpose it seems. But even if they release one at such a price you hit the nail on the head. Multi overclocking as only means of overclocking is just not right. If I want that, and a box with a turbo button, I would hook up a 386.

[Chaserjzx100]

I'm amazed that there is no outrage here. People actually defend it. I guess the blind adoration of a company really has no limits for some.

.

yeah... im pretty much amazed too i thought this was xtremesystems not xtreme stock ghz on my pc forum

[Hornet331]

So. No more clocking of the bus speed. Only multipliers if you shell out extra cash for a K type CPU. Else you will have to settle for a few turbo multi's. And they took out memory clocking in the same nightmare scenario move. Someone change the threads title because this is the real news.

I'm amazed that there is no outrage here. People actually defend it. I guess the blind adoration of a company really has no limits for some.

Bullldozer here I come.

Whys there no outrage?

Quite simple -> S2011. I don't really care for Mainstream SB the features and performance improvment are nice and it give a glimps at what we can expect from S2011.

So i don't really care if there is a oc lock on mainstream SB, now if there would be also a oc lock on S2011 that would make me rage.

[Manicdan]

Whys there no outrage?

cause a VIP on this forum, in this thread, made a good point,

OCing isnt a right, its a privilege. a few of us got a bit of a giggle out of it.

i think a few people will switch sides just cause they like the challenge, not even worried about performance differences.

and it is a good point that even though K series have unlimited multi, its just not sounding very fun.

[Hornet331]

What do you say about people who never touched these CPUs or Bulldozer, but are accusing a well documented test based on wild assumptions?

Welcome to the Z0ne?

[Sam_oslo]

cause a VIP on this forum, in this thread, made a good point,

OCing isnt a right, its a privilege. a few of us got a bit of a giggle out of it.

i think a few people will switch sides just cause they like the challenge, not even worried about performance differences.

and it is a good point that even though K series have unlimited multi, its just not sounding very fun.

The hard core OCers have been spending extra to get unlocked multi, because they don't want the limitations made by MB, RAM and Uncore. I haven't seen many Ocer who are pushing the BCLK on 980x, actually. So the K-series doesn't need to be something negative, on the contrary it is a strength. The fun part is to get most out of what you got and a new architecture will always present new ways to have fun too.

[Manicdan]

The hard core OCers have been spending extra to get unlocked multi, because they don't want the limitations made by MB, RAM and Uncore. I haven't seen many Ocer who are pushing the BCLK on 980x, actually. So the K-series doesn't need to be something negative, on the contrary it is a strength. The fun part is to get most out of what you got and a new architecture will always present new ways to have fun too.

i believe in a simple theory that with more time involved, the outcome is more rewarding. if it takes 20 minutes to find the max overclock, your probably going to be bored the rest of the weekend. but if you have 4 voltages, 3 multipliers, all the ram latencies, the base clock, and sweet spots that work well together, you can really have a weeks worth of fun getting every last percentage out of it.

[Sam_oslo]

i believe in a simple theory that with more time involved, the outcome is more rewarding. if it takes 20 minutes to find the max overclock, your probably going to be bored the rest of the weekend. but if you have 4 voltages, 3 multipliers, all the ram latencies, the base clock, and sweet spots that work well together, you can really have a weeks worth of fun getting every last percentage out of it.

I got finished OCing my SR-2 in 20 minutes anyways, , mainly because we know all the tricks of the good old i7-architecture by now, but i see what you mean. A new architecture will always have it's own new tricks and give us a couple of days fun, don't worry.

Bet lets agree the unlocked multi on k-series is not something negative, but is actually positive.

[terrace215]

So. No more clocking of the bus speed. Only multipliers if you shell out extra cash for a K type CPU. Else you will have to settle for a few turbo multi's. And they took out memory clocking in the same nightmare scenario move. Someone change the threads title because this is the real news.

I'm amazed that there is no outrage here. People actually defend it. I guess the blind adoration of a company really has no limits for some.

Bullldozer here I come.

Erm, the parts that are positioned against BD (LGA-2011) have the stuff you're complaining about.

But even on these 1155 mainstream parts, even on the non-K parts, you can overclock the memory on all p67 mobos.

So yes, lets all get outraged.

[JumpingJack]

in an old post of mine where i posted that imo even a 10-15% ipc boost of sb wouldnt be enough to make an upgrade worth it for most people?

Indeed, you did say that, but I was referring to...

i should define what i mean by that though... even if sandybridge is 5% or even 10% faster than clarkdale at the same clockspeed, thats not a notable performance boost imo... thats not a reason to upgrade your laptop or pc, its like a mhz boost from 2000mhz to 2200mhz... thats nothing, you wont notice it...

but i dont expect even that, i think sandybridge will be 2% faster than clarkdale on average... the important points will be lower power consumption, more features (avx,better turbo,tweaked igp) and price...

And I argued:

I believe on average, if I were guessing ... 10-15% depending on work load, with some apps maybe as low as 5% and some as high as 20%.

Also in the discussion, Sn0wman nailed it:

Originally Posted by Sn0wm@n
i predict a 15% improvement with sandy bridge over nehalem same amount of cores threads etc....

From this thread: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...ght=IPC&page=4

However, what is a 'notable' performance boost is a matter of opinion, to me 1-2% is insignificant, 10-15% is significant. It's 10-15% more that AMD has to make up to achieve a leap frog, and 10-15% is not easy to do.

[geo]

yeah... im pretty much amazed too i thought this was xtremesystems not xtreme stock ghz on my pc forum

i mentioned that back in the thread and im suprised people on xs would ok with lack of overclocking choice.

[Sam_oslo]

i mentioned that back in the thread and im suprised people on xs would ok with lack of overclocking choice.

Those people you are taking about will keep using the high-end on socket 1336 until the high-end SB hits the marked. Those people you are referring to are not into mainstream. But what do you mean by lack of OCing? do you mean all these CPUs are locked on stock speed?

[v0dka]

Erm, the parts that are positioned against BD (LGA-2011) have the stuff you're complaining about.

But even on these 1155 mainstream parts, even on the non-K parts, you can overclock the memory on all p67 mobos.

So yes, lets all get outraged.

Oh now it's ""mainstream" and no one should care (funny though that you insist on calling 3.4Ghz parts mainstream). Ever thought of the fact that 99% of users buy mainstream products?

And what will S2011 bring exactly? Extreme editions @ € 1.000,-? No thanks I'll pass on that great offer.

[JumpingJack]

i mentioned that back in the thread and im suprised people on xs would ok with lack of overclocking choice.

yeah ... however, if Intel serves up K skus for reasonable costs it will make up for their decision a little.

But I, like many, believe that for the enthusiast community this is a poor move. I can see both sides of the argument. Enthusiast want the option to void their warranty and push to the limits. They want the most performance for the least cost.

The other side of the argument is Intel wants to make money every public corporation does (and Intel obviously really wants to make money, lots of it )... so they have 2-3% of the market (DYIer overclockers) asking for liberally peppered cheap skus to overclock, where has they have some 80% or more (my guess) who wants to cut system level manufacturing costs.... who do you think they are going to listen to?

AMD unlocked their skus as a nice bonus to attrack more enthusiast over clockers over while they worked on getting better products out to take on Intel's lead ... Intel released K skus to counter this, but imo, was more to make up for the eventual movement of the clock gen on package/die. It is actually quite amazing to me that Intel would even do that considering past behaviors.

[JumpingJack]

And what will S2011 bring exactly? Extreme editions @ € 1.000,-? No thanks I'll pass on that great offer.

The I7-920 was not a $1K processor and launched in socket S1366 at the same time. I suspect this will also be the case with S2011.

[Hornet331]

The I7-920 was not a $1K processor and launched in socket S1366 at the same time. I suspect this will also be the case with S2011.

I doubt we see a SKU in that price bracket for S2011, more like in the next higher bracket (think 940).

On the other hand we already had models overlaping between S1156 and S1336, so it might be possible that we get SKUs that are cheaper.

[Iconyu]

i mentioned that back in the thread and im suprised people on xs would ok with lack of overclocking choice.

I'm not buying the mainstream version that's why I'm not bothered, as I know the version I will buy allows me to do what I want.

If I do build a machine for someone and they do ask for a overclock, a multiplier overclock is much easier to keep stable than current methods. If they want that level of control I'll tell them what they need for it but I don't want to be holding their hand for that stuff all day long.

I doubt we see a SKU in that price bracket for S2011, more like in the next higher bracket (think 940).

On the other hand we already had models overlaping between S1156 and S1336, so it might be possible that we get SKUs that are cheaper.

Actually I think there will be a lot of price brackets covered in socket 2011, as Intel might release quad, hex and octal core versions.

[flippin_waffles]

So. No more clocking of the bus speed. Only multipliers if you shell out extra cash for a K type CPU. Else you will have to settle for a few turbo multi's. And they took out memory clocking in the same nightmare scenario move. Someone change the threads title because this is the real news.

I'm amazed that there is no outrage here. People actually defend it. I guess the blind adoration of a company really has no limits for some.

Bullldozer here I come.

That's easy. Get the info out there, and then let the teamsters push and defend the agenda. It's already being swept under the rug, as you say.

Fortunately there is another company out there that values it's customers, and customers that appreciate that value.