[S/A]How Nvidia blacklists sites like Hardware Secrets

[SKYMTL]

The guy from Hardware Secrets is just upset about no more free cards.

Actually, Gabriel is a stand up guy and I don't think he would give two hoots about receiving free samples. I honestly think he believes he was blacklisted or something of the sort but just went about the motions in such a way that Charlie now has yet more fodder for his anti-NV rants.

[stinkas]

I will continue to call BS. Why? Because from what I see HardOCP, Anandtech, etc. has CONTINUED to receive NVIDIA pre-release samples to this date.

At the time, NVIDIA made it quite obvious that they weren't releasing samples of certain renamed cards like the GTS 250 and GT 240 due to their similarity to the past generation. Rather, they were relying on their partners to sample sites. I have this IN WRITING. Whether or not certain sites got butthurt isn't my problem.

Ok fair enough, I think it's fairly conclusive how biased you are now...

[SKYMTL]

Ok fair enough, I think it's fairly conclusive how biased you are now...

I see that the simple truth is as usual the hardest pill to swallow. Especially considering we didn't review either card mentioned (GTS 250 / GT 240) until weeks or MONTHS after the release. Yup, I'm definitely biased..... / sarcasm

Note to mods: XS needs a *facepalm* emoticon.

[stinkas]

Actually, Gabriel is a stand up guy and I don't think he would give two hoots about receiving free samples. I honestly think he believes he was blacklisted or something of the sort but just went about the motions in such a way that Charlie now has yet more fodder for his anti-NV rants.

Actually I just think Gabriel has got a set of balls, and decided to expose Nv and their corruption.

I mean let's face it, how did Charlie become so anti Nv in the first place?

[stinkas]

I see that the simple truth is as usual the hardest pill to swallow.

Note to mods: XS needs a *facepalm* emoticon.

Sounds like you need to take your own medicine.

And that wasn't a sly nod to the mod was it?

[Russian]

Sounds like you need to take your own medicine.

And that wasn't a sly nod to the mod was it?

Dude, you're such a troll.

[stinkas]

Dude, you're such a troll.

It would be really great if you could do some independent thinking instead of just trolling.

[Syn.]

Its funny how people think that just because they have had a certain type of experience in life that everyone else has had the same... or maybe its not funny and its just very sad to see and very time wasting to read.

SKYTML and the other people in this so called discussion need to look beyond their own life and maybe try to understand that sometimes roses.... really do smell like poo. That being said Nvidia does black list review web sites that don't do everything they are asked. Fact. The reviewer has a right to write his own opinion and talk about subjects he wants (PhysX vs 3Dc). Fact. Oh and just because you are paranoid that does not mean people arent out to get you, write that down.

[prava]

@stinkas: for what is worth, SKYMTL is just one of the many users that XS has, but with the little difference that he is a reviewer...but thats all.

So, lets forget about him as a user (as everything he says or writes is merely his opinion, although many people seems to think that is "hardware canucks" talking, when its not) and lets talk about his reviews: could you please search for anything on his well-written reviews that could make you think that he is biased? If you will not even bother, stop calling somebody Biased for non-reason, specially when he is a user as you, me and anybody else and, as such, he has an opinion...that he hasn't stated yet. Have you seen him claiming how big is his love for NVIDIA? No. What he does is show some light, some different POV of the situation because we are only getting light from one direction...and both parties have the rights to be heard and, only then, one should make his judgment. So, for that, I would like to thank you, SKYMTL, you really seem a honest guy showing both what you like and what you don't about whatever you review, and that is only good.

With all that said...I can't say I'm happy with NVIDIA, at all. I just don't like their attitude lately, but so what? I own two GT200 products, one G92 and another G94 products (no ATI except one X1950pro). So, imagine how biased I am when I say that his philosphy and attitude is 100% crap but his products are not...guess what: this is not a religion. You don't have to like the companies attitude in order to like its products, and THIS IS A FACT.

[Russian]

It would be really great if you could do some independent thinking instead of just trolling.

Hilarious. You're telling me to think independently when you're the one who just posted an obvious flame bait post and you're the one with the signature that shows your own biased opinions towards a specific brand.

[stinkas]

@stinkas: for what is worth, SKYMTL is just one of the many users that XS has, but with the little difference that he is a reviewer...but thats all.

So, lets forget about him as a user (as everything he says or writes is merely his opinion, although many people seems to think that is "hardware canucks" talking, when its not) and lets talk about his reviews: could you please search for anything on his well-written reviews that could make you think that he is biased? If you will not even bother, stop calling somebody Biased for non-reason, specially when he is a user as you, me and anybody else and, as such, he has an opinion...that he hasn't stated yet. Have you seen him claiming how big is his love for NVIDIA? No. What he does is show some light, some different POV of the situation because we are only getting light from one direction...and both parties have the rights to be heard and, only then, one should make his judgment. So, for that, I would like to thank you, SKYMTL, you really seem a honest guy showing both what you like and what you don't about whatever you review, and that is only good.

With all that said...I can't say I'm happy with NVIDIA, at all. I just don't like their attitude lately, but so what? I own two GT200 products, one G92 and another G94 products (no ATI except one X1950pro). So, imagine how biased I am when I say that his philosphy and attitude is 100% crap but his products are not...guess what: this is not a religion. You don't have to like the companies attitude in order to like its products, and THIS IS A FACT.

http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum...review-18.html

To me the conclusion reads like someone who is biased but trying not to come off as biased. One minute SLI minimums are king, then the next Xfire is scaling better etc.

Everyone has bias, this is not the issue. The issue comes when it is preventing someone from being completely objective.
SKYMTL's comments in this forum seem to indicate a deep bias that prevents him from seeing what some of us would describe as obvious. He just gives the impression that he believes Nv can do no wrong, and anyone who says different no matter how legitimate a source they are, is either lying or simply mistaken and confused.

[stinkas]

Hilarious. You're telling me to think independently when you're the one who just posted an obvious flame bait post and you're the one with the signature that shows your own biased opinions towards a specific brand.

How many different episodes can you think of in recent history that Nv has been caught with their pants down?
Has Nv ever done anything to annoy you ever in terms of how they conduct them selves?

I am no longer an Nv fan, would you prefer I was less transparent and hid that fact?

[MpG]

http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum...review-18.html

To me the conclusion reads like someone who is biased but trying not to come off as biased. One minute SLI minimums are king, then the next Xfire is scaling better etc.

Everyone has bias, this is not the issue. The issue comes when it is preventing someone from being completely objective.
SKYMTL's comments in this forum seem to indicate a deep bias that prevents him from seeing what some of us would describe as obvious. He just gives the impression that he believes Nv can do no wrong, and anyone who says different no matter how legitimate a source they are, is either lying or simply mistaken and confused.

Honestly don't get it. He ran the benches and got numbers from them. The SLI min's were overall better. The X-fire scaling was overall better. The X-Fire power consumption was overall better. And he writes as much.

"We’re just not that excited about it because ATI threw a live hand grenade into the SLI party by posting performance increases that were simply jaw-dropping in nearly every respect."

"it becomes extremely hard to recommend a GTX 470 SLI setup at this point in time for someone who isn’t hell-bent on going with NVIDIA cards."

What exactly would you see done differently?

[annihilat0r]

Everyone has bias, this is not the issue. The issue comes when it is preventing someone from being completely objective.
SKYMTL's comments in this forum seem to indicate a deep bias that prevents him from seeing what some of us would describe as obvious. He just gives the impression that he believes Nv can do no wrong, and anyone who says different no matter how legitimate a source they are, is either lying or simply mistaken and confused.

I think it's exactly the opposite. Let me tell you why.

On XS (and on a lot of other hardware forums) there are more ATI fanboys than Nvidia fanboys. Those ATI boys, who I believe include you but I haven't checked your posts thoroughly so I am not certain, bash Nvidia on EVERY possible occassion. They even bash Nv on "impossible" occassions at the cost of sounding funny. The NV fanboys do the same too, of course; but they are much less numerous so there isn't a stupid anti-ATI thing going on in the whole forum.

SKYMTL is one of those who sees the incredible bias on such fanboys and usually replies with a sensible post, which is not Nvidia "biased" but sounds pro-Nvidia BECAUSE the claims themselves are so ridiculously anti-Nvidia.

I'm sure you didn't get what I am saying, so here is an example:

"lol nvidia sux look at vantage 480 isnt faster than 5870 lol" --> devoid of any sense, and very anti-Nvidia.

Sensible, unbiased answer to this SHOULD be pro-Nvidia.

So what happens you are in a place when stupid posts like the above anti-NV example are the norm? You try to correct every one of them, and so you have to be pro-Nvidia on every one of them - and then another jackass comes and blames you for being "Nvidia biased" even if you write the best GPU reviews on the Internet. Funny.

[stinkas]

Honestly don't get it. He ran the benches and got numbers from them. The SLI min's were overall better. The X-fire scaling was overall better. The X-Fire power consumption was overall better. And he writes as much.

What exactly would you see done differently?

If your an average consumer looking for guidance, then your sol.
He should of explained that minimum fps was the more crucial factor and that SLI in it's current state is the better option for smoother fps, not average.

Why then go on to say something over the top about xfire throwing a hand grenade in the SLI party and that xfire scaling is out of this world when most people (i think) believe min fps to be the more crucial factor?
It just sounded like it was a token bone that was thrown to Ati, ironically to avoid being labelled biased.

[jakefalcons]

if you think SKYTML is biased read some of his reviews >< your making xs look bad because you cant stand to see someone else with a different opinion way to go hardware canucks is one of the best review sites around imo and i would hate to see him stop posting on XS because he gets fed up with the trolling going on recently.
Anyway whats up with nvidia they need to get it in gear they are taking one misstep after the next if they keep this up my next card will defiantly be ati. the only real drawback is not having physx but it looks like the industry is hopefully going towards a more open standard like opencl for physics but who knows its all speculation at this point. it all comes down to the features availble and what price your willing to pay. Although any consumer should take ethics or business practices into account when making a purchase but any company will slip up from time to time and you have to give them a chance to get their act together before you ostracize them.

[stinkas]

I think it's exactly the opposite. Let me tell you why.

On XS (and on a lot of other hardware forums) there are more ATI fanboys than Nvidia fanboys. Those ATI boys, who I believe include you but I haven't checked your posts thoroughly so I am not certain, bash Nvidia on EVERY possible occassion. They even bash Nv on "impossible" occassions at the cost of sounding funny. The NV fanboys do the same too, of course; but they are much less numerous so there isn't a stupid anti-ATI thing going on in the whole forum.

SKYMTL is one of those who sees the incredible bias on such fanboys and usually replies with a sensible post, which is not Nvidia "biased" but sounds pro-Nvidia BECAUSE the claims themselves are so ridiculously anti-Nvidia.

I'm sure you didn't get what I am saying, so here is an example:

"lol nvidia sux look at vantage 480 isnt faster than 5870 lol" --> devoid of any sense, and very anti-Nvidia.

Sensible, unbiased answer to this SHOULD be pro-Nvidia.

So what happens you are in a place when stupid posts like the above anti-NV example are the norm? You try to correct every one of them, and so you have to be pro-Nvidia on every one of them - and then another jackass comes and blames you for being "Nvidia biased" even if you write the best GPU reviews on the Internet. Funny.

Simply being anti Nv does not make someone 'pro' anything else.
I'm 'pro' seeing companies not using bully tactics to get their way over smaller companies. I'm 'pro' seeing companies tell the truth, or at least not telling blatant lies.

If Nv fanboy's are drying up, then it's Nv's own fault! Also if they didn't conduct themselves in such a poor manor they wouldn't get anywhere near the level of negativity thrown in their direction.
To put it simply, "What you sow, so shall you reap".

[Xoulz]

IMO... if Nvidia was proud of their accomplishments, then they would give their hardware freely to any legitimate review site, without asking nothing in return...

[prava]

http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum...review-18.html

To me the conclusion reads like someone who is biased but trying not to come off as biased. One minute SLI minimums are king, then the next Xfire is scaling better etc.

You have to be really kidding...or otherwise you can read better english that I do (which wouldn't be surprising as English is not my first language...not even my second). So, lets check SKYMTL conclusion and seek for that "clear bias" you are calling him to have...

(...)

However, the facts are quite clear: in general, ATI’s cards offer better multi GPU scaling than anything NVIDIA can currently offer. Believe it or not, NVIDIA’s SLI scaling is actually very, very good considering we saw on average a 60% to 81% increase when going from one card to two. We’re just not that excited about it because ATI threw a live hand grenade into the SLI party by posting performance increases that were simply jaw-dropping in nearly every respect. It is because of this dual card scaling that a HD 5850 Crossfire setup can make up a ton of lost ground when compared to ATI’s single GPU scores. On the other hand, the HD 5970 is simply trampled by the GTX 470 SLI setup.

Luckily for NVIDIA, we didn’t stop at the average framerates and included (as usual) minimums as well. In this category the GTX 470 SLI is still head and shoulders above the competition when IQ settings are pushed since it doesn’t exhibit the numerous dips in performance that characterize the Crossfire experience. I don’t know about you but I would much rather have a slightly lower average framerates if it means my system won’t bog down when I’m fighting for my life in a game. Basically, a fluid gaming experience is what SLI is ideal for…or at least until ATI can figure out a way to bring up their minimum framerates in some games.

(...)

While performance is good and minimum framerates are awe-inspiring, our main concerns about a GTX 470 SLI lie in two areas: price and power consumption. Both aspects wouldn’t have been too much of a concern if NVIDIA had managed to carry their average single card performance lead over the HD 5850 into multi card benchmarks. Unfortunately, that didn’t happen so as it stands we feel that spending $700 for two GTX 470 cards is a hard sell when you can buy a similarly performing solution from ATI for more than $100 less. When you add a power consumption gap of more than 100 watts into the equation, it becomes extremely hard to recommend a GTX 470 SLI setup at this point in time for someone who isn’t hell-bent on going with NVIDIA cards.

It is quite evident that while the GTX 470 is a clear winner against a single HD 5850, SLI is currently struggling to mirror the downright amazing scaling that Crossfire offers. Overall framerates for a GTX 470 SLI system are still incredible but the HD 5850 in Crossfire is simply too close for comfort in most cases. It is also important to remember that NVIDIA’s drives are still quite immature and multi card performance is usually one of the first things addressed when new versions are released. As such we intend to take another look at GTX 470 SLI performance in the future. While we can’t outright recommend going SLI in this case, it offers enough convincing performance wins that it should be at least considered by enthusiasts.

Yeah, I see a hell lot of bias in SKYMTL review, seriously. Its clear that he is pro-NVIDIA and that NVIDIA has its simpathy for such clear bias.

/sarcasm.

Please, you should stop this BS. What you are doing is nearly trolling...because you are accusing somebody of being biased without showing any proof of it. Well, you do...buts its clear to anybody's eyes that YOU are the biased ones as you are confusing the facts as the facts you like.

Everyone has bias, this is not the issue. The issue comes when it is preventing someone from being completely objective.
SKYMTL's comments in this forum seem to indicate a deep bias that prevents him from seeing what some of us would describe as obvious. He just gives the impression that he believes Nv can do no wrong, and anyone who says different no matter how legitimate a source they are, is either lying or simply mistaken and confused.

No. What SKYMTL is doing is just the opposite: you won't see him saying "physx is awesome, incredible and mandatory". He just says the truth: "physx is a feature and, as such, you should think about it". But he also says that GF100 is hot, powerhungry and more expensive than ATI...oh, sure, as that goes into the same you are thinking that is not bias.

Please, you are being totally ridicolous. Stop it.

[stinkas]

Although any consumer should take ethics or business practices into account when making a purchase but any company will slip up from time to time and you have to give them a chance to get their act together before you ostracize them.

That's my point, I'v never none a company conduct itself so poorly, on so many occasions, in such a relatively short space of time.
So when do you draw the line, and say this isn't acceptable?

[SKYMTL]

I gave up on this conversation and possibly interjecting some more facts into it about three hours ago. It really is too bad people go foaming-at-the-mouth and mistake actual sanity for bias because this could have been an interesting discussion. Ah well, such is life.

Enjoy the thread guys!

[Macadamia]

Time for a combo breaker:

http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=9425

nVidia has had a few strikes already. How many strikes does Gabriel have?

p/s: at this point I don't care who wins the argument anymore. However as someone who was once inspired to be a full-time reporter, I find the lack of ethos and the constant backstabbing amongst tech sites sorely disappointing.

[bamtan2]

life must be so difficult for you fans worrying about nvidia rumors.

[stinkas]

IMO... if Nvidia was proud of their accomplishments, then they would give their hardware freely to any legitimate review site, without asking nothing in return...

So what do you think Nv do when they are about to release a product they are not proud of?

[stinkas]

I gave up on this conversation and possibly interjecting some more facts into it about three hours ago. It really is too bad people go foaming-at-the-mouth and mistake actual sanity for bias because this could have been an interesting discussion. Ah well, such is life.

Enjoy the thread guys!

Sorry if I came across as a JA, I simply detest underhanded antics.
Can you name any instance in which you suspect Nv of foul play?