[Review] PrimoChill Typhoon III

[sinticfury]

here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99Q86XXVHhw

[NaeKuh]

its still uploading xD

BAN!!!

[HoosTrax]

You know, I actually saw someone posts some action shots, where they had the acrylic backplate mounted to the D5 without taking off the brown paper first . (To be fair, it is stuck on pretty securely and a bit tough to peel off.)

[sinticfury]

BAN!!!

Why ban!!!

You know, I actually saw someone posts some action shots, where they had the acrylic backplate mounted to the D5 without taking off the brown paper first . (To be fair, it is stuck on pretty securely and a bit tough to peel off.)

I cant get the paper off its too hard and I dont want to scratch the acrylic so I am getting a custom one made out of mirror jet black

[NaeKuh]

I have argued with physics before. Usually there has been either too much testosterone or alcohol involved... or not enough common sense lol.

There is a version with the DDC. Looks like Primo will be selling it as the "TMR". Will let you know the details when they say it is OK.

I already have a dual DDC version done also. It is kind of cool because it lets the user select between serial or parallel.

My statement is always this.

If you think im wrong, show me with math and physics. If it makes sense, and the numbers adds up, i will gladly appologize and shut up!

:P

I am looking forward to your dual DDC version. ETA on when we might be able to see it?

Why ban!!!


I cant get the paper off its too hard and I dont want to scratch the acrylic so I am getting a custom one made out of mirror jet black

do i really need to tell you the reason why after this statement?

[sinticfury]

Yes

[Waterlogged]

Why ban!!!

Nah, no ban. . .just 80 lashes

You promised us a vid, said here's the vid. . .but no vid. Yet

[millertime359]

I have argued with physics before. Usually there has been either too much testosterone or alcohol involved... or not enough common sense lol.

There is a version with the DDC. Looks like Primo will be selling it as the "TMR". Will let you know the details when they say it is OK.

I already have a dual DDC version done also. It is kind of cool because it lets the user select between serial or parallel.

Seems a nice heads up comparison between that, the T3, and XSPC's version will be in order. It would be nice to see the outcomes.

[sinticfury]

Its a link I dont know how to do the thing with the box. Its in the first post

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99Q86XXVHhw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99Q86XXVHhw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99Q86XXVHhw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99Q86XXVHhw


theres the video 4 times

[millertime359]

Nah, no ban. . .just 80 lashes

You promised us a vid, said here's the vid. . .but no vid. Yet

+1

I got the popcorn and beer all ready expecting to watch a video. Now the beer is warm and the popcorn is stale and cold.

[sinticfury]

the video is up why is there only 3 views?

[millertime359]

the video is up why is there only 3 views?

O, lol didn't see you posted it

edit: still no instructions hey. It doesn't seem like it is too hard to figure out though LOL

[sinticfury]

just a heads up the o ring goes into the inner circle like second from outer then you place the pump in any way u want.

[BoxGods]

Awesome, thanks BG!

I hadn't even thought of asking about price until you mentioned it...I was just considering it a necessary upgrade

BG, slightly different question. I saw some posts in the other thread that looked like they related to different fittings on the T3. I know by default it ships with the PC acrylic ghost compression fittings.

Is there any danger in using (or need in some circumstances to use) metal fittings on it instead? Wasn't clear about that. What do most use?

Primo sells my Metal Barb design, Metal ghosts, which fits the T3 perfectly, and is all but invisable (thus the ghost name). Metal is fine and as another posted, some may need a slightly fatter O ring. Most users (not all) are sure they will not like the PC Compression fittings that are include, then when they see them tey DO like them. They also come in colors of that's an issue.

LOL. was going to be me on the price question. I like those alot. When you get some more info, let us know. I am very interested in the black one. As the previous poster said, it will be nice to have it blend in.

Yeah, I totally agree that that is one big chunk of rectangle on the front of your machine. That's why I have campaigned pretty hard to get Primo in gear getting the billet faces out, and why I will likely do a paint tutorial.

I will forever be a modder first lol. Has to LOOK good too.

@BG, I hope the "brushing" on the anoded black one is going to be in the same direction as the cases are. Nothing looks more out of place than a brushed aluminum part that doesn't follow the same direction as the case.

Yeah, though not ALL cases run the same direction. Plan on it conforming to the look of a Lian-Li as that is the goal for looks and Quality.

I cant get the paper off its too hard and I dont want to scratch the acrylic so I am getting a custom one made out of mirror jet black

I LOVE that table. Can you really not peel off the protective coating...I never know when people are kidding lol.

Waiting to finish this post to watch the Vid, but if its half as good as the pictures I am sure I will like it.

O, lol didn't see you posted it

edit: still no instructions hey. It doesn't seem like it is too hard to figure out though LOL

I know I know. I tell myself every day, "Today I have to get to those instructions" and everyday I don't have the time. SOON!

[BoxGods]

just a heads up the o ring goes into the inner circle like second from outer then you place the pump in any way u want.

Just watched it. Excellent job. I think YOU should do the video instructions as my videos look like crap. Never fails, I turn the camera on and every animal in the house suddenly appears, the phone rings, and somebody knocks on the door.

[millertime359]

I know I know. I tell myself every day, "Today I have to get to those instructions" and everyday I don't have the time. SOON!

Don't worry, If i can't figure it out tomorrow, I will just start spamming your PM box

[nypunkgeek]

Yeah, I am going to need one of the black faceplates. That thing is just sexy.

[Waterlogged]

Its a link I dont know how to do the thing with the box. Its in the first post

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99Q86XXVHhw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99Q86XXVHhw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99Q86XXVHhw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99Q86XXVHhw


theres the video 4 times

Congrats, your now part of the "hated club" and "they" think you are me.

[sinticfury]

Congrats, your now part of the "hated club" and "they" think you are me.

What why

[hellcamino]

What why

Because they were dropped as children.

[Martinm210]

Thanks for the review, great work as always.

Sorry to hear all the grumbles, but I can understand everyone's perspective. This parallel stuff is hard to convey and creates alot of confusion because it's never really been talked about or testing much at all.

We've always talked "Flow Rate" as being one thing. This is true in a series system, where pump flow rate and block flow rate are equal and the same. There was never a need to indicate which one we're talking about.

Parallel systems are different though. In parallel, you have "Pump" flowrate and "Block or individual loop" flow rates. The purple bars represent "Pump" flow rate, it's what the pump produces. What I think some folks want to see is only "block" flow rate. I think they want to see that comparison only, because block flow rate is what translates to some sort of thermal performance gain.

I think they are both important.

Pump flow rate is important to know and understand when considering where the pump is operating. You don't really want a pump operating too far on the right hand side of the curve either. The more pump flow rate the more pump heat dump, the harder the pump works. I don't think we see too many problems in the context of watercooling and these smaller DC pumps, but I wouldn't dismiss it completely. I have had direct experience with this on a commerical pumping system I designed this last winter. Simply put, my pumps where too big for the amount of restriction I had and I learned that bigger is NOT better. In my case, I had two 5hp 2" pumps capable of about 200GPM and a pressure drop of only about 10' at 150GPM or so. This meant the pumps were operating at nearly free flow conditions. The result was that the pumps drew more current than I could legally have my electrician set the circuit breakers at. The pumps were operating too far on the right hand side of the curve, drawing too much current, overheating and eventually drawing more than 140% of the electrical pump motor rating (which is the limit we can set the breaker). My solution: add valves at the pump outlet to artificially introduce restriction to the system. My electrician thought I was nuts when I told him this, but sure enough it worked just fine. This in turn lowered the flow rates and allowed the pump to operate more appropriately in the middle of the curve. This is still a workaround, but it goes to show you pump size and selection is important and you don't want a pump that is too big(operating too far on the right) either or you can have other problems. Anyhow, long story short, pump flow rate is important too, but only for the pump, how much heat it produces, how much current draw, and how hard the electrical motor has to work (More is worse for heat dump and can be worse for the pump motor/efficiency. The optimal efficiency point is usually in the middle of the curve somewhere which is a good balance of restriction flow).

Block flow rate is what we are normally looking at and thinking about when we are after thermal gains. It's this flow rate that matters and translates to thermal performance and probably what everyone is really wanting to see here. These were all represented in the other bar colors (More is better).

If I had to vote on how to present flow rates. I'd suggest noting both, but distinguishing between and separating block flow rates and pump flow rates. They are both important, but both represent two different things. Pump flow rate is important for pump sizing, pump operation, and how much pump heat dump is to be expected. Block flow rate is important to know for thermal efficiency of blocks and radiators.
Pump flow rate - More is usually worse, Ideally you are in the middle of the curve or left if anything)
Block flow rate - More is always better

This parallel discussion and testing is all new stuff though, not something anyone has done much published testing on...so I'm not surprised we all have our own thoughts on what we want to see or what's the best way to compare things.

Great work, and interesting results!!

So much for the old "Series is always better" thought....never say always!!..Everything is only always a shade of gray!!!

[Waterlogged]

Thanks for the review, great work as always.

Sorry to hear all the grumbles, but I can understand everyone's perspective. This parallel stuff is hard to convey and creates alot of confusion.

We've always talked "Flow Rate" as being one thing. This is true in a series system, where pump flow rate and block flow rate are equal and the same. There was never a need to indicate which one we're talking about.

Parallel systems are different though. In parallel, you have "Pump" flowrate and "Block or individual loop" flow rates. The purple bars represent "Pump" flow rate, it's what the pump produces. What I think some folks want to see is only "block" flow rate. I think they want to see that comparison only, because block flow rate is what translates to some sort of thermal performance gain.

I think they are both important.

Pump flow rate is important to know and understand when considering where the pump is operating. You don't really want a pump operating too far on the right hand side of the curve either. The more pump flow rate the more pump heat dump, the harder the pump works. I don't think we see too many problems in the context of watercooling and these smaller DC pumps, but I wouldn't dismiss it completely. I have had direct experience with this on a commerical pumping system I designed this last winter. Simply put, my pumps where too big for the amount of restriction I had and I learned that bigger is NOT better. In my case, I had two 5hp 2" pumps capable of about 200GPM and a pressure drop of only about 10' at 150GPM or so. This meant the pumps were operating at nearly free flow conditions. The result was that the pumps drew more current than I could legally have my electrician set the circuit breakers at. The pumps were operating too far on the right hand side of the curve, drawing too much current, overheating and eventually drawing more than 140% of the electrical pump motor rating (which is the limit we can set the breaker). My solution: add valves at the pump outlet to artificially introduce restriction to the system. My electrician thought I was nuts when I told him this, but sure enough it worked just fine. This in turn lowered the flow rates and allowed the pump to operate more appropriately in the middle of the curve. This is still a workaround, but it goes to show you pump size and selection is important and you don't want a pump that is too big(operating too far on the right) either or you can have other problems. Anyhow, long story short, pump flow rate is important too, but only for the pump, how much heat it produces, how much current draw, and how hard the electrical motor has to work (More is worse for heat dump and can be worse for the pump motor/efficiency the optimal efficiency point is usually in the middle of the curve somewhere which is a good balance of restriction flow).

Block flow rate is what we are normally looking at and thinking about when we are after thermal gains. It's this flow rate that matters and translates to thermal performance and probably what everyone is really wanting to see here. These were all represented in the other bar colors (More is better).

If I had to vote on how to present flow rates. I'd suggest noting both, but distinguishing between and separating block flow rates and pump flow rates. They are both important, but both represent two different things. Pump flow rate is important to know so you don't overdrive a pump and how much pump heat dump is to be expected. Block flow rate is important to know for thermal efficiency of blocks and radiators.
Pump flow rate - More is usually worse, Ideally you are in the middle of the curve or left if anything)
Block flow rate - More is always better

This parallel discussion and testing is all new stuff though, not something anyone has done much published testing on, so I would expect the stumbles and confusion.

Great work, and interesting results!!

So much for the old "Series is always better" thought....never say always!!

Yeah, I think some of the ppl arguing misunderstood that 3.47GPM was flowing through the blocks. NO, not at all. That's how much was flowing through the pump and PEC only. The tubes/blocks had what could roughly be called by XS standards "average" or "target range" flow rates in that they were generally 1.25+GPM range

[BoxGods]

Thanks for the review, great work as always.

Sorry to hear all the grumbles, but I can understand everyone's perspective. This parallel stuff is hard to convey and creates alot of confusion because it's never really been talked about or testing much at all.

We've always talked "Flow Rate" as being one thing. This is true in a series system, where pump flow rate and block flow rate are equal and the same. There was never a need to indicate which one we're talking about.

Parallel systems are different though. In parallel, you have "Pump" flowrate and "Block or individual loop" flow rates. The purple bars represent "Pump" flow rate, it's what the pump produces. What I think some folks want to see is only "block" flow rate. I think they want to see that comparison only, because block flow rate is what translates to some sort of thermal performance gain.

I think they are both important.

Pump flow rate is important to know and understand when considering where the pump is operating. You don't really want a pump operating too far on the right hand side of the curve either. The more pump flow rate the more pump heat dump, the harder the pump works. I don't think we see too many problems in the context of watercooling and these smaller DC pumps, but I wouldn't dismiss it completely. I have had direct experience with this on a commerical pumping system I designed this last winter. Simply put, my pumps where too big for the amount of restriction I had and I learned that bigger is NOT better. In my case, I had two 5hp 2" pumps capable of about 200GPM and a pressure drop of only about 10' at 150GPM or so. This meant the pumps were operating at nearly free flow conditions. The result was that the pumps drew more current than I could legally have my electrician set the circuit breakers at. The pumps were operating too far on the right hand side of the curve, drawing too much current, overheating and eventually drawing more than 140% of the electrical pump motor rating (which is the limit we can set the breaker). My solution: add valves at the pump outlet to artificially introduce restriction to the system. My electrician thought I was nuts when I told him this, but sure enough it worked just fine. This in turn lowered the flow rates and allowed the pump to operate more appropriately in the middle of the curve. This is still a workaround, but it goes to show you pump size and selection is important and you don't want a pump that is too big(operating too far on the right) either or you can have other problems. Anyhow, long story short, pump flow rate is important too, but only for the pump, how much heat it produces, how much current draw, and how hard the electrical motor has to work (More is worse for heat dump and can be worse for the pump motor/efficiency. The optimal efficiency point is usually in the middle of the curve somewhere which is a good balance of restriction flow).

Block flow rate is what we are normally looking at and thinking about when we are after thermal gains. It's this flow rate that matters and translates to thermal performance and probably what everyone is really wanting to see here. These were all represented in the other bar colors (More is better).

If I had to vote on how to present flow rates. I'd suggest noting both, but distinguishing between and separating block flow rates and pump flow rates. They are both important, but both represent two different things. Pump flow rate is important for pump sizing, pump operation, and how much pump heat dump is to be expected. Block flow rate is important to know for thermal efficiency of blocks and radiators.
Pump flow rate - More is usually worse, Ideally you are in the middle of the curve or left if anything)
Block flow rate - More is always better

This parallel discussion and testing is all new stuff though, not something anyone has done much published testing on...so I'm not surprised we all have our own thoughts on what we want to see or what's the best way to compare things.

Great work, and interesting results!!

So much for the old "Series is always better" thought....never say always!!..Everything is only always a shade of gray!!!

WoW. Martin just commented on a part I designed...may have to go wake the wife up to read that =)

I think the REAL advantage people are going to come to love about the T3 in parallel is that you now have a lot of options. If you want to run a restrictive type CPU block, your not going to take a hit on your radiator flow rates. Said another way, users can mix and match blocks and rads with a lot less worry now because you can configure your loops to work with each parts strengths.

And I know we are going to see new block designs that take advantage of the higher flow rates simply because they were restricted to what a lower cost pump (read D5 or DDC or even EIHM) was feeding them.

I hope Martin saw that I DID mention him/his comments as the inspiration for the T3's inlet design. I know that testers like Martin and Skinnee must often wonder if all the hard work they do REALLY has an impact. It does I assure you.

[Martinm210]

I think the REAL advantage people are going to come to love about the T3 in parallel is that you now have a lot of options. If you want to run a restrictive type CPU block, your not going to take a hit on your radiator flow rates. Said another way, users can mix and match blocks and rads with a lot less worry now because you can configure your loops to work with each parts strengths.

And I know we are going to see new block designs that take advantage of the higher flow rates simply because they were restricted to what a lower cost pump (read D5 or DDC or even EIHM) was feeding them.

I hope Martin saw that I DID mention him/his comments as the inspiration for the T3's inlet design. I know that testers like Martin and Skinnee must often wonder if all the hard work they do REALLY has an impact. It does I assure you.

I agree it provides options, but I disagree about the less worry part. Parallel takes alot more effort and planning or it can be worse!

Parallel "Can" be better, but it won't always be. In order for it to be a benefit over series, you need several things. A pump with a very flat flow oriented curve (The D5 fits that pretty well). A very high restriction loop and ability to BALANCE the pressure drop in both loops. And you also need ALOT of restriction to prevent overdriving the pump motor. Perhaps the D5 and DDC are so bullet proof these days that you need not worry. I'm not so sure though, I don't think it's any mystery why we had so many DDC2 failures back in the days...alot of those were likely tied to low restriction setups or dual pump setups that pushed the motors harder than optimal.

If you have a very unbalanced loop it's possible for the restrictive parallel loop to receive less flow than it would under a series setup. In addition, running in parallel has the chance of putting the pump under alot of unnecessary stress.

Here is an example of how the pressure drop and pump curves relate. In series weather it's a pump or the pressure drop, the curves are added vertically in the pressure Y direction. In parallel, the curves are added in the horizontal or flow rate X direction. The blue and red curve add up to the green curve.

If you setup a parallel set of loops where one loop has high restriction and the other is relatively low, you can easily do more harm than good.

Here is a theoretical presentation of where series will still be the better option. The parallel loop has three flow rates. Series has one.


Series
Pump/Rad/CPU/GPU Block flow rate = pump flow rate, all one flow rate = 1.3GPM

Parallel
Pump = 3GPM (Working well beyond the best efficiency point) This will prematurely wear the pump out and decrease life of the motor.
CPU & Radiator = 1.0 GPM
GPU = 2 GPM

So in this particular setup, the only benefit would be for the GPU, the CPU and Radiator would suffer, and the pump motor would suffer.

This is all just presentation on how the curves interact. You would need to work with actual pressure drop curves to pin the optimal piece down, but I'm pretty sure series will be the best solution for many situations as well.

Bottom line: Parallel "Can" be a benefit, but you better know what your doing or you can cause more harm than good. Series setups is the safer route if you either don't want to bother with the check or don't have enough information to check. Unfortunately we have ALOT of blocks and various products out there that don't provide pressure drop information.

How can you make sure when you don't have pressure drop information that parallel is the optimal solution??

Anyhow, I just want people to understand neither parallel nor series is going to ALWAYS be the optimal solution and there are some details and conditions that would favor one over the other. If you don't understand it pretty well, series is still a very very good direction to flow...


In general I think parallel might be a good option if:
-You know what you're doing and have pressure drop information for everything.
-A running a flatter high flow pump like the D5 (I doubt the DDC will show much benefit)
-You have ALOT of restriction, enough that the combined pressure drop curve is not overly stressing the pump motor.
-You can balance the pressure drop of the two loops relatively equally.


Anyhow, I like the options present with parallel, but I would caution people to do a bit more planning if it's something they want to do...

[Boogerlad]

will there be some sort of calculator?