Cheap good brand powerful home cinema sets. Trap or good stuff?

[Johnsonbgr]

Hello,

Recently i decided to buy a home cinema set to connect it on pc for music,movies,games etc.

Im living on greece,so the first place was checked is the shop "plaisio".

I found there (and not only there) some home cinema sets with 800watt rms power for about 200 euros.

Here is some examples:

Samsung HT-TZ212R 5.1 209 euros
With RDS Radio,dvd player,etc etc.
I think is 5X134W and 134W Subwoofer.
Or 5x100watt and 200w subwoofer,whatever!

Sony DAVDZ260 5.1 set 219 euros
Power: 5x142 watt with 140 watt subwoofer.
RDS Radio,dvd player,etc.

And the more expensive sets:

Samsung HTTZ315R 5.1 1000w RMS power,300 euros.
5x166watt and 170w subwoofer.
This set have RDS Radio too,dvd player,etc.

Sony HTP78SS 5.1 at 400 euros
5X70W satellites and a 285w subwoofer.
RDS Radio,dvd player,etc,etc...

What do you have to say about the price-performance guys?

If the watts are real,then the most sets are more powerful than the logitech z-5500 speakers.

I can't find any review for the most of these,but if anyone have any of these sets,is pleased to say a few words about it to disscuss it.

Im going to buy Samsung HT-TZ212R,or HTTZ315R,and i need to know if the power is real or the 800w rms power is just green flying horses on a dream.

I don't care if the quality of sound is not very good,but i care too much for loudness.

Thanks.

[Coldon]

it's maybe possible that each satellite is 134w is they are large speakers, if they are of the smaller variety, there is no way in hell that think is pumping out 130w RMS. That around the same power as a guitar half-stack amp. Maybe they mean 134w peak, i doubt its continuous.

[Johnsonbgr]

Hmm i don't know.

I think the speakers are like z-5500's satellites-sized.

It says 800w RMS,i don't think it's peak power.
But it's very possible that the SPEAKER power is 100w for the each,not the amp power... Big bounce here and i don't see any solutions... i must try those home cinema sets on a shop,and i'll do it tomorow maybe.

A good solution with "success-buy-guaranty" it's a logitech z-5500 set,but i don't really like those alien-like ungly speakers.

Thanks for your reply Coldon.

Any opinitions are always appreciated!

[Coldon]

i just looked at the samsung website, the speakers are quite large so i think that the rMS ratings could be accurate, i'd say go for the best samsung set you can afford.

[Johnsonbgr]

So the Samsung HTTZ315R.

But i have to test it first,just to be sure that the power is allright,and the rms power is not 10w.

Anyone knows if the subwoofer is self powered? i din't find any information about that.

[twilyth]

I couldn't find those models on the US Samsung site. There were just 2 HT-TZ models under home theater.

It looks like they don't support most of the the more recent audio encoding standards see here for 512R.

The models are probably discontinued, or will be soon. Everyone is moving to blu-ray so I would wait until the units with BR players are cheaper. If that's not an option, try to find something that will let you incorporate a BR player later and still have it controlled thought the HT interface.

I also doubt that the number per channel are accurate. on the 512R they're saying 200 watts/channel. That's not likely. It's probably closer to 20watts RMS. Which when mulitplied by 6 speakers is nothing to sniff at.

[jason str]

Judging a system simply by wattage is silly anyways, i have heard 25 watt McIntosh amps blow away the output of 1000 watt pyramid system.

You really need to hear and judge your choices in your listening enviornment to make the right decision.

[twilyth]

True. Speakers are an individual thing. It can have the flattest freq response curve and still be uninspiring.

For years I had old AR15 speakers, but they started getting muddy so I went looking for something else. I listened to a pair of small NHT one bookshelf speakers and I was blown away. They were so precise you could pick out every instrument in a symphony.

Samsung probably uses the same speakers for different base units in the same range, so you should be able to demo them at a local store.

[Xel'Naga]

Judging a system simply by wattage is silly anyways, i have heard 25 watt McIntosh amps blow away the output of 1000 watt pyramid system.

You really need to hear and judge your choices in your listening enviornment to make the right decision.

The rule of thumb is that doubling the power adds 3db. That means that going from 1W to 1000W only adds 30db. Speaker sensitivity(output at 1W) (for floorstanders, 5.1 200$ systems are even lower) ranges from below 80Wpc to over 120Wpc for stadium speakers. The low sensitivity one would need about 10000W to match the sound level of the stadium speaker at 1W. Talking about power with no knowledge about sensitivity is retarded.
Also there is a trade off between high excursion and efficiency. Since people like high excursion you get the crappy subs for the car that need 1000W for the volume a normal sub would require 20W. And cheap high excursion speakers => bending woofers => horrible quality.

[Johnsonbgr]

@twilyth to see the other models,change the us website to greek for a moment,you won't understand many things but you will find the models.

Hmm the dvd player is allright,i don't use even dvd player,i play the dvds on the dvd drive of my pc.So i won't miss blu-ray because when i will need a player,i will buy a br drive for pc.

@jason str that's 100% truth. For example the 40w subwoofer of creative gigaworks T3,can knock out many other more powerful subwoofers of other pc speakers sets.

And i agree with Xel'Naga (on excursion part and not only on that part)

Hmm and... i found a probably reason why powerful home cinema sets,is cheap!

I was reading the manual of a samsung home cinema and i read that: 3ohm speakers 166w etc etc...

So the amp is cheap because is a low end amp,which gives 166w power because of the 3ohms,one ohm down,1 time multiplied watts.I am right?

Anyways... i hope to find a shop with home cinemas demos,because the shops here are a bit lol,you can't find even a logitech z-5500 demo with ease.

[twilyth]

So i guess you're going to run 6 audio cables from your sound card to the HT input panel and control playback with the mouse and keyboard. That works as long as you don't have a huge cable run.

I have a similar setup buy I'm getting by with a couple nice Altec Lansing speakers, so I just have the HDMI cable going to the HDTV. It's not perfect but I've never been big into precision audio for tv and movies. When you grow up watching a 17" b&w set with a single cheesy speaker, you have much lower expectations.

I don't know if this is still true, but it used to be that you wanted very ineffecient speakers that had a huge impedance since that would give you more precise movement of the speaker cone. To be clear, the higher impedance usually meant that you had a very strong magnet on the driver. That meant that once you got the voice coil to move, it would snap back very quickly. But it also meant that you needed a lot of power to get it moving in the first place. (Think I've got this right???)

More effecient speakers tend not to be as precise because the magnets don't exert as much force. So it's it easier for them to sound muddy.

Personally, I always thought you could get around the problem using an electro magnet to reinforce the permanent magnet. But I guess there is reason that's never been done.

[YukonTrooper]

Just remember that home theater speakers setups aren't designed for near-field use. There are high-end PC monitor systems that will get the job done much better.

[jason str]

Speaker efficiency really has nothing to do with cone movement or quality of sound its just how efficiently the speaker produces sound.

Everyone has a different taste on what music should sound like and room acoustics play a large role too.

When i went shopping for audio equipment i spent months shopping around listening to different systems, with a $5000 budget and lots of time finally i pieced together what i wanted and when friends come over usually i have to pick their jaw off the floor and mop up the drool afterward.

Just take your time shopping around and if you are not happy with your purchase just return it and try again.

[Xel'Naga]

Speaker efficiency really has nothing to do with cone movement or quality of sound its just how efficiently the speaker produces sound.

http://sound.westhost.com/subcon.htm
Read section 4.

[jason str]

http://sound.westhost.com/subcon.htm
Read section 4.

Who was talking about a subwoofer ???

[Johnsonbgr]

Guys i have news!

I test it.. basically all of this sets!

All crap!

285w subwoofer is about 30w.

I turn the volume to the end (30/30) on Sony HTP78SS and the volume it's like a logitech g51.

A sony 400w 2.0 hi-fi with 2 subwoofers on every speaker was loudest than every single home cinema set there,and the price 300e.

I won't buy home cimena,logitech z5500 or the sony hi-fi,i will find another solution.

Thanks for the replies.

[twilyth]

check this out

The review is a few years old, but if you want high fidelity and high wattage at a low price, I don't think you will find this in a new system. A single speaker surround system might be your best bet.

The best models are made by Yahmaha but are in the $1-2k range. You can get a lot of the effect though with a 2 box unit - 1 multi-speaker for mid-high range + 1 subwoofer.

Also, since you don't need the dvd player, remote and other stuff you get in a complete system, maybe you would be better off with just a power amp and speakers. You're sound card already does all the pre-amp processing you need, so don't buy a bunch of crap you don't need.

You can probably get a nice 6 channel power amp used off of one of the auction sites for cheap. Audiophile gear (unless its really high end and still state of the art) tends to depreciate very quickly.

[itznfb]

just yesterday i picked up a Samsung HT-Z310T to replace my Logitech Z-5300e system. My Z-5300e was connected via back panel 5.1 channel output and my Samsung is now connected via back panel single optical output. the Samsung system was $200 and i had very very very low expectations. to my surprise, the audio clarity and surround accuracy absolutely blows away the Z-5300e. i'm shocked at how crisp the sound is coming from this unit. however... the subwoofer isn't powered so the bass is very lacking. it does a decent job but the giant sub that came with the Z-5300e is much nicer. also on the samsung while watching movies at higher volume distortion would start around volume 40-50% where the Z-5300e could hit 100% without distortion. the speakers on the Samsung are definitely underpowered which is causing the distortion. they definitely get loud enough for general computer use, mid level volume while watching a movie and a decent listening volume for music. since the parts can easily be swapped out or replaced i think the value HTIB is a better deal than the computer based kits that have non-replacable parts.

bottom line is i was considering getting a logitech z-5500 but i'm glad i didn't. the HT-Z310T was well worth the $200.

[Johnsonbgr]

Thanks guys (again)

I decide to buy a Sony MHC-GT222 hi-fi and a powered subwoofer or a Edifier s550 (or s750) speakers set!

Holy smokes,see the s550/s750 subwoofer.
See how bigger than the z5500 is
here

[antipop]

I bought a denon 1509 with a set of wharfedales (5 speaker + 1 sub) for under 500€. I guess you can find the same kind of deal around you. It may not be the best available but for the price it beats the cheap all in one offer. Plus I can upgrade piece by piece in the future.

[Xel'Naga]

I bought a denon 1509 with a set of wharfedales (5 speaker + 1 sub) for under 500€. I guess you can find the same kind of deal around you. It may not be the best available but for the price it beats the cheap all in one offer. Plus I can upgrade piece by piece in the future.

Excellent choice.

[Johnsonbgr]

I agree with Xel'Naga.

Good listening antipop

I change my mind yesterday,and i will buy av amp,speakers like magnat monitor 900,and the powered subwoofer on my last post.

For amp im looking for a yamaha or sony,and i will check the denon 1509.

The price will be about 800 euros but the stuff is good,and like antipop said:
I can upgrade piece by piece in the future.

P.S: the truth is i don't like very much the amps because the size is too big like a big vcr but i will place it somewhere.

Thanks.