To everyone in the WC section, Please read!

[Movieman]

One of the mods here got this in a PM today.
No names as the names aren't important but the message is.
Here's the message:
That's what happened to the system I was gonna build. The fanbois, and the idiots, and the hateful s in the watercooling forum is what ran me off, and I won't be associated with it.

I had to send XXXXXXXXX an e-mail apologizing for wasting his time and had to tell him I won't be purchasing the rest of the cooling gear I was going to.

This forum was THE number one source for watercooling info, but lately it has changed. People go in there for help and all they get is hate wars, fanboism, and is gotten so bad that sometimes the stuff recommended is just plain wrong and people end up with bad combinations of expensive gear.

The thumbs down is signifying the fact that I like to come here for good info, and like to study things and build systems the right way based on people's experiences. I don't wanna hear fanboi's jumping in every thread saying "EK Supreme is the shiznaz....FTW!!!" or some punkass comment.

I've really had it. It takes alot to run me off. I have patience of stone, but they have ran out. I also know that the mods here are sick of it.

What will probably happen is in about 3 months they finally wear out their welcome say something stupid and get perm banned, and then things will get back to normal and people will start coming back. Heck, even I might come back, but right now, it's at leat 3 months away because i just dropped 2 of the 3 grand I was gonna use on this new system on rocket supplies and will be busy with that for the next 3-4 months at least.

The thumbs down is a sign of the damage people have caused to that forum and to other peoples businesses.


Pretty sad when XS runs off a member because of comments made here.
My thinking is that what has happened here has a bit to do with ego's and also with associations with companies.
Ego's should be left at the door when you come here to XS.
They aren't needed or wanted and quite honestly mean zilch.
Company associations on the other hand are a non issue when handled openly and honestly and in a positive manner.
Example of positive: Gabe coming here and showing a new product.
Example of negative: XXXX member who has a quiet association with company A badmouthing company B to try and gain an advantage.
Pretty rotten huh and if I even think that is happening I ban the SOB so fast his head will spin.
We play fair here and as adults or we don't play at all.
This section used to be a joy to come to but not lately.
To those that know me I'm a pretty fair person BUT only with decent people.
To the haters I can be a miserable SOB as I can't stand someone who is here to troll and flamebait.
When someone new comes in here they are owed, yes OWED courtesy by all of us and if you can't give that then don't post. It's that simple.
Act as friends in a friendly manner or keep your mouth closed.
If you get off on harassing people then get the F out of here as we don't want you and trust me, we'll get you removed from XS.
Thanks for reading and to all the positive people that frequent this section my apologies for having to post this but seeing that kid's message just hit home and told me something had to be done and done now.

[BlueAqua]

Thank you for posting this. I'm getting completely sick of the one sided product endorsements all the time too, by some people who have never even used them.

We should all be on the same page and not against one another. We're all the same really.

[bentleya]

thank you who ever sent that pm i just hope it gets sorted it out, i myself have only been here few months and the about of hate and fnboisism i got in a thread i got asked to post up by a company. is just unbelivball. even there a knid mod spent hours yesterday going though the thread just a big thanks to him. i join as many people said what i nice places it was, and i havent posted my logs, as i was scared of the piss be ripped from me but that may all change

thanks

[Movieman]

Thank you for posting this. I'm getting completely sick of the one sided product endorsements all the time too, by some people who have never even used them.

We should all be on the same page and not against one another. We're all the same really.

Exactly. This section, like all the others here, should be for the exchange of information that benefits all.
The issues are ego's and company ties as I mewntioned and the quest for the customers dollar. Fine when the product is shown in an honest light and the game plaiyed fair but nasty when one badmouths another just to get a sale.
Add in the BS between individuals and you don't have a place for learning but caos.
It's subtle game that has gone on to promote one compaines products over anothers with the goal of money made but I'll say it again, that crap stops and stops today.

[Omastar]

You guys ran off Marci, Cathar, and MaxxRacer from this forum. Well done. Let's just let the WC wars die already.

[dionysio]

it seems there are alot of people trying to support certain firms. most manufacturers did and do ship questionable parts. we have to tell friends the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth. any bad experience must be reported.

[turtletrax]

Thanks Movieman. A great move in the right direction.

Stand fast and all will be well

Too the member that decided to leave, I hope you keep an eye out for the changes and hope things get back to greatness and you see fit to return. But I also thank you for PMing MM. Thanks for this.

[Movieman]

it seems there are alot of people trying to support certain firms. most manufacturers did and do ship questionable parts. we have to tell friends the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth. any bad experience must be reported.

Actually I think overall most manufacturers ship pretty good parts but I think they all are human and once in a while get a lemon.
I can see showing a issue with a part such as Naekuh did with those steel parts from Koolance. That is good and what is needed but when you see Joe Blow badmouthing everything except X product and then find out that he works for that company then it's time to step in and get him the hell out of here.

[Kayin]

Glad to see this. I'm far less active here than I once was, mostly from insinuations and comments. I stalled out my custom work and put the entire shop in mothballs cause I was convinced I wasn't making any progress, and that nobody cared.

However, school started back, and I had a friend check my numbers (got him to come from B'ham to do so, an hour+ drive) and what did I find?

These people spreading hate are morons. Now that I see some effort made to rein them in (and I know how hard it is, been a forum mod more than once) I think I'll be back, showing some stuff and garnering new ideas.

There are people here whose opinion I value highly, and people who I could care less. I'm not gonna let that minority cause me to lose the benefit of the majority.

Meh, does that make me one of the manufacturers, then? I like to think of myself as "obsessed cruncher."

[dionysio]

Actually I think overall most manufacturers ship pretty good parts but I think they all are human and once in a while get a lemon.
I can see showing a issue with a part such as Naekuh did with those steel parts from Koolance. That is good and what is needed but when you see Joe Blow badmouthing everything except X product and then find out that he works for that company then it's time to step in and get him the hell out of here.

i bought many koolance parts. i have many taps that rusted. not all of them though. it seems the problem is in the nickel plating. it was not properly done in all batches.also i am not sure about the d5 tops. they seem nickel plated but koolance did not 100% guarantee them.instead they told me to use a good fluid to prevent corrosion. i chose feser as it seems its very good. the 1/2 barbs are excellent. nickel plated and slimmer than ther rest. they fit perfectly to d'tek fuzion v2 and allow any type of tubing to fit well.


but this is not a thread about products. i hope to give a good example on how an opinion should be written. i think i was a 100% objective.

[gillbot]

I have gotten some flack about upgrading to an EK supreme but my cheap ass prohibits it. Plus I think my Apogee GT does well enough and the extra $$$ to upgrade to me isn't worth a few extra C.

[fart_plume]

Along with Movieman's comments. I will add this people come here to get advice. instead of telling some to buy different parts than they already have(some people just don't have the money to drop on more parts) Help them resolve the issues that they are having.

[Movieman]

I have gotten some flack about upgrading to an EK supreme but my cheap ass prohibits it. Plus I think my Apogee GT does well enough and the extra $$$ to upgrade to me isn't worth a few extra C.

I agree with you. There may well be a block that is 1-3C better than the ST ApogeeGT but I've had a pair of clovertown's dumping almost 300W of heat load thru them since August 2007 and I have NEVER touched the WC system and that machine runs at 100% load 24/7/365

I am in the midst of building a WC dual X5470 Harpertown on a SkullTrail Mb and guess what I'm using for water blocks? ApogeeGT's.
I'd love to do the new GTZ's but I had one ApogeeGT and the smart money play was to just get another. $40.00 spent vs $140.00

[fart_plume]

Lol, you high dollar guys, I'm using a modded THERMAL TAKE block!!!Why because it was a gift and it works, not the best but it works.................

[BlueAqua]

Along with Movieman's comments. I will add this people come here to get advice. instead of telling some to buy different parts than they already have(some people just don't have the money to drop on more parts) Help them resolve the issues that they are having.

Exactly!!! The same water cooling setup is not exactly the same for everyone and everyone needs to acknowledge that. We need to be more supportive and helpful. It's all just a frame of mind.

[Gir92]

I think a large part of the problem is people recommending parts that THEY like and that they think are the best. When someone is asking for advice, you need to take a step back and consider what is best for their situation, not yours.

Another issue that really ticks me off is the fanoyism. There is such thing as brand loyalty that is not fanboyism. For example, I have a brand loyalty to swiftech because I own many of their products and they have never failed on me. But if someone asks for a list of parts, I will tell them in a heart beat if they need to go with a PA or BI GTX rad.

The fact that if EK or Bitspower (sorry to pick on names, but I need to make a point) makes a mistake, then they are praised for coming out and admitting it. However, if Swiftech or DangerDen make a mistake, then God help them. You know that they will be slaughtered by the parts of the XS masses that love to join on bandwagons. You can be loyal to a brand but still keep it civil and just. Just because you like one brand over another doesn't give you the right to blindly beat down the company you don't like.

[[XC] Hicks121]

Good to see this Movieman. It was getting out of control.

[Movieman]

I think a large part of the problem is people recommending parts that THEY like and that they think are the best. When someone is asking for advice, you need to take a step back and consider what is best for their situation, not yours.

Another issue that really ticks me off is the fanoyism. There is such thing as brand loyalty that is not fanboyism. For example, I have a brand loyalty to swiftech because I own many of their products and they have never failed on me. But if someone asks for a list of parts, I will tell them in a heart beat if they need to go with a PA or BI GTX rad.

The fact that if EK or Bitspower (sorry to pick on names, but I need to make a point) makes a mistake, then they are praised for coming out and admitting it. However, if Swiftech or DangerDen make a mistake, then God help them. You know that they will be slaughtered by the parts of the XS masses that love to join on bandwagons. You can be loyal to a brand but still keep it civil and just. Just because you like one brand over another doesn't give you the right to blindly beat down the company you don't like.

Very well said!
Here's my overall take;
With the exception of the Aluminum Koolance and others that use Aluminum, I see most of the water blocks as pretty damned close.. Yea, some are a shade better than others but if you buy one of the top ones odds are you'll be happy.
Then the Rads, never owned a Thermochill rad but enough people that I know and respect do praise them so they must be good.
I have a ST MCR320 that handles 2 HOT clovertowns and has done it well for a year so thats also good in my opinion.
A lot of the issues are based on looks and looks are subjective just like what you like in music.
To me if it works in the "good" range, is easy to install and most important, lasts, then it's a good investment.
Then you look at manufacturer support.
Add all the factors up and you can make good decisions.

[IanY]

To advance the discussion, it should be extended to opinions. There are opinions, and where the subject matter is necessarily subjective, there are no uniformly correct answers.

There isn't a single piece of equipment that is uniformly the best for everyone. The same goes for methodologies and practices. Nobody should be compelled to emulate anyone else, regardless of who that someone else is.

Water cooling is a simple science, and I like to believe that any half brained nitwit can accomplish it. Regardless of the level of one's experience or prior accomplishment, an opinion is just an opinion. Nobody owns the Tablets on the Temple Mount.

[IanY]

lol @ the rrr shot.............. FTW!!!

That is blatantly unfair and out of character! Considering that this thread addresses a particular subject matter, it should be incumbent on you not to practice what you preach against.

[Movieman]

To advance the discussion, it should be extended to opinions. There are opinions, and where the subject matter is necessarily subjective, there are no uniformly correct answers.

There isn't a single piece of equipment that is uniformly the best for everyone. The same goes for methodologies and practices. Nobody should be compelled to emulate anyone else, regardless of who that someone else is.

Water cooling is a simple science, and I like to believe that any half brained nitwit can accomplish it. Regardless of the level of one's experience or prior accomplishment, an opinion is just an opinion. Nobody owns the Tablets on the Temple Mount.

Well said and if I could do it anyone can. All I did was read here, ask questions on the order of the loop and then read the manual that came with the kit..

That is blatantly unfair and out of character! Considering that this thread addresses a particular subject matter, it should be incumbent on you not to practice what you preach against.

Agreed and I just deleted the post and in recognition that he's new here I let it slide.
There is no need of anyone to bash anyone and what happened yesterday is over and done.
If he makes another post like that his next post at XS will be in 2009..

[AndrewZorn]

I was wondering why I hadn't seen Marci and Maxx(x?)Racer in a while.

[Movieman]

I was wondering why I hadn't seen Marci and Maxx(x?)Racer in a while.

I think, not know, that Maxx's life just got busier.
maybe work or a new GF.
As to Marci, he isn't with TH any more and that may explain it.

[gillbot]

My stance on it is, I won't recommend something I haven't personally used. I will never recommend an EK because I'm too cheap to run one myself. I will point them to threads that shows others' experiences but I always add my $0.02 about my beloved Apogee GT. I usually recommend the Apogee GT for two reasons:
1) It can be found in the FS/FT section for $25 shipped or less used,
2) I have abused mine and it takes everything I throw at it, so it's a proven performer in my eyes.

It's hard to beat that $ per C performance, though as soon as I get my D-Tek Fuzion v1 mounted and tested, we'll see as the price on those is falling as well.

[fart_plume]

One of the things I have noticed is the constant bashing of the use of aluminum in a loop. Due to galvanic corrosion and such. There are ways to control this, but that aspect seems to be completely ignored or bashed. I believe a proper thing to do is to explorer effective means of controling corrosion.

I've been researching this and I will be writing a paper on it. So far i have found some forms of corrosion can be corrected with sacrifical anodes, but this can lead to another form of corrosion. In this light I'll be working toward methods of controling corrosion for the various mixed metal loops.