It is offical: NVIDIA allows SLI on Intel X58!

[Papu]

sooo just sli? or SLi and crossfire?

[NeedMoMegaHurtZ]

FB-DIMMs might not be the problem. It can be explained by the fact that MCP-100 is PCI-E 1.1. MCP-200 is 2.0 wouldn't downgrade Skulltrail's support for PCI-E 2.0.

That was the primary problem with ST1. FB-DIMMS have 40% increased latency over their unbuffered DDR2 counterparts.

or are you claiming that there is that much of a difference in FPS in the current crop of games between PCI-E 1.1 and 2.0?

Let's hope ST2 will get better memory as well

[Donnie27]

That was the primary problem with ST1. FB-DIMMS have 40% increased latency over their unbuffered DDR2 counterparts.

or are you claiming that there is that much of a difference in FPS in the current crop of games between PCI-E 1.1 and 2.0?

Let's hope ST2 will get better memory as well

Actually I'm claiming that difference will hardly matter on Current Skulltrail, nothing else.

I think ST2 will have DDR3 and not FB-DIMMS that'd require a new IMC. No problem on X58 because it will use DDR3 X 3 ch and have an IMC. Thank goodness PCI-E 1.1 is gone I agree with Logos4.

[Donnie27]

sooo just sli? or SLi and crossfire?

It will support CF and SLI.

[Papu]

It will support CF and SLI.

so wheres the problem? people with fat wallets will get their 280@s SLI on a non Sh***y chipset , and bang for bucko's can run their cheaper Ati Parts..
its still goign to be ludicrously Expensive for a good few months , so it wont affect the market too much? , will the SLI deal run beyond X58

[situman]

[QUOTE=Jimmer411;3140553]Since when was ATi dead? 2900XT? Thats about it. SLi isnt the end all to GPU sales... Prices win, and $750 GPU isnt the way to do it, hence the multiple price cuts before and immediatly after launch QUOTE]

Yea I know however, ATI was able to survive this long was because of xfire on Intel chipsets. The general preference was Nvidia graphics cards up until now, but with Nvidia dropping prices...

I guess in the end this will force each company to come out with more competitive and even cheaper products as we now have a choice.

[Donnie27]

so wheres the problem? people with fat wallets will get their 280@s SLI on a non Sh***y chipset , and bang for bucko's can run their cheaper Ati Parts..
its still goign to be ludicrously for a good few months , so it wont affect the market too much? , will the SLI deal run beyond X58

Some folks only want whats essential on their motherboards. It also sets a bad precedent!

Not just needlessly picking on nVidia. There are threads about folks not wanting built-in sound, NICs and etc..... as well.

[Donnie27]

[QUOTE=situman;3140787]

Since when was ATi dead? 2900XT? Thats about it. SLi isnt the end all to GPU sales... Prices win, and $750 GPU isnt the way to do it, hence the multiple price cuts before and immediatly after launch QUOTE]

Yea I know however, ATI was able to survive this long was because of xfire on Intel chipsets. The general preference was Nvidia graphics cards up until now, but with Nvidia dropping prices...

I guess in the end this will force each company to come out with more competitive and even cheaper products as we now have a choice.

QFT!

[Eldonko]

Interesting. Not a huge fan of having these little "SLI chips" added to the boards but then again, a single board to do SLI and CF is good in my book.

True, if it works out like this. Won't be cheap tho.

[Nedjo]

For crying out loud NVIDIA is trying to sell balls for kidneys!!

From i975 era we know that SLi is operable on Intel platform via simple driver hacking!

Now NVIDIA is trying to sell SLi to Intel community with their "PEG tunnel chip", after has become clear that INTEL will not give them QuickPath license!

This hasn't got anything with INTEL and NVIDIA making a dill. It's up to a mainboard makers good will and business judgment.

Also NVIDIA is scared that good voice of the new ATI RV770 based cards, and the fact that they work natively in CrossFire on x58 platform will further erode their GPU market share, so they're making desperate moves, and in their own style they're spinning the story in a wrong to justify ripping of Intel oriented users by making the x58 mobos more expensive for the price ot their "magic" SLi chip!

I don't hold that against them I only wonder how some people can suck this up pretending that they don't know that SLi worked on i975 w/o any addon chip, free of charge with just a driver hack!

[zlojack]

I don't see how this is a good thing. We are basically going to be asked to pay extra for this chip on the board when it could be quite easily done with drivers and no extra hardware to worry about.

[perkam]

I don't see how this is a good thing. We are basically going to be asked to pay extra for this chip on the board when it could be quite easily done with drivers and no extra hardware to worry about.

It's eerily similar to block pricing that cable companies use. Want NFL TV, but you have to buy all the sports channels including Fishing TV to get it.

Yet ANOTHER thing monopolies do VERY well

Perkam

[WhiteFireDragon]

wait... can someone explain this to me in n00b terms? i'm still a little confused but this is what i'm understanding from all this. x58 mobos are the new nehalem chipset from intel that will natively support xfire just like x38/48 because intel will not give nvidia permission to have native SLI on this new chipset. so to get around this, nvidia makes their own chipset for mobo manufacturers to slap on the board so the board has both x58 chip + nForce200 chip?

yup shady move. the more crap on the mobo, the more potential problem there will be. like mentioned before, some people just want a basic x58 mobo without all the other gunk on it because in the end, it'll just inflate the mobo prices.

[perkam]

wait... can someone explain this to me in n00b terms? i'm still a little confused but this is what i'm understanding from all this. x58 mobos are the new nehalem chipset from intel that will natively support xfire just like x38/48 because intel will not give nvidia permission to have native SLI on this new chipset. so to get around this, nvidia makes their own chipset for mobo manufacturers to slap on the board so the board has both x58 chip + nForce200 chip?

yup shady move. the more crap on the mobo, the more potential problem there will be. like mentioned before, some people just want a basic x58 mobo without all the other gunk on it because in the end, it'll just inflate the mobo prices.

Yes Welcome to Idiots-Ville, Colorado, where you buy an SLI chipset when you want to do Xfire

Perkam

[Donnie27]

I think this says it best.

thanks for posting about this confirmation. I've been among those not quite happy about having to pay an NVidia tax on X58 (knowing that SLI could probably work well without the NForce chip)...see recent thread about that, but well, this is probably better after all, at least a first step, allowing to avoid the purchase of a full and buggy NVidia mobo...so all in all better than the previous situation.

This chip is similar to hardware DRM. IMHO, there's no probably to it the chip isn't needed unless nVidia changed something on the new cards to require them. That's equally sleazy.

[safan80]

I want open SLI... I don't want to use a ing bridge chip!

[WRC]

if AMD keeps releasing cards like the hd 4000 serires, pretty soon nobody will need SLi

[Logos]

wait... can someone explain this to me in n00b terms? i'm still a little confused but this is what i'm understanding from all this. x58 mobos are the new nehalem chipset from intel that will natively support xfire just like x38/48 because intel will not give nvidia permission to have native SLI on this new chipset. so to get around this, nvidia makes their own chipset for mobo manufacturers to slap on the board so the board has both x58 chip + nForce200 chip?

no, NVidia won't make chipset anymore (at least in the beginning...); they found an agreement with Intel to integrate NForce 200 on X58 boards, which doesn't equal to an NVidia Chipset. NVidia will just provide the NForce PCIe bridge chip, nothing more. The boards equipped with it will support both CF (native on Intel mobos anyway) and SLI.

It's more NVidia that won't allow SLI to run native on X58. They're selling the NForce200 for implementation on the X58 because they like our bank accounts very much...when everyone knows that SLI would run perfectly on an Intel chipset if NVidia drivers didn't prevent it.

[safan80]

if AMD keeps releasing cards like the hd 4000 serires, pretty soon nobody will need SLi

you right! I'm probably going to get 2 4870x2s

[virtualrain]

wait... can someone explain this to me in n00b terms? i'm still a little confused but this is what i'm understanding from all this. x58 mobos are the new nehalem chipset from intel that will natively support xfire just like x38/48 because intel will not give nvidia permission to have native SLI on this new chipset. so to get around this, nvidia makes their own chipset for mobo manufacturers to slap on the board so the board has both x58 chip + nForce200 chip?

yup shady move. the more crap on the mobo, the more potential problem there will be. like mentioned before, some people just want a basic x58 mobo without all the other gunk on it because in the end, it'll just inflate the mobo prices.

Hi, I wrote an editorial on the latest rumors/news last night before this news broke (complete with diagrams)...

http://www.nehalemnews.com/2008/07/r...ts-latest.html

Here are my observations on all of this...

What's perhaps most interesting is that NVIDIA will support SLI on Intel boards with the NF200 PCIe bridge/switch for Bloomfield and Lynnfield and may never actually develop a chipset for this architecture. This may be a very good thing for all concerned. While NVIDIA makes excellent graphic cards, their chipsets on Intel platforms have always been riddled with issues. Gaming or 3D benching enthusiasts who want both SLI and the stability or reduced hassle of an Intel chipset may actually be getting what they want.

NVIDIA will still make decent money from "enabling" SLI motherboards as they are rumored to be pricing the NF200 chips at a lofty $30 price point. Keep in mind that a full-fledged chipset will command around $50. So from the NVIDIA accountant's point of view, this looks very attractive... nearly $30 of pure margin from a very simple chip and no R&D costs associated with developing a new chipset.

Intel should also be happy as they won't be competing againts NVIDIA for the enthusiast chipset market and any Intel platform can effectively be enabled with SLI by the motherboard manufacturer simply by designing a variation of their board that includes the NF200 chip.

If these rumors end up being true, it looks to be a Win-Win-Win!

EDIT: However, I read this morning that X58 will cost $70 so you are looking at $100 just for chipsets on an SLI enabled board and that means these boards will be $300-$400!

[virtualrain]

BTW, does anyone here know exactly what a NF200 chip does?

Thanks,
-Chris.

[WhiteFireDragon]

no, NVidia won't make chipset anymore (at least in the beginning...); they found an agreement with Intel to integrate NForce 200 on X58 boards, which doesn't equal to an NVidia Chipset. NVidia will just provide the NForce PCIe bridge chip, nothing more. The boards equipped with it will support both CF (native on Intel mobos anyway) and SLI.

yeah i get the part that they won't be making their own mobo chipset anymore (like 680i, 780/790i etc). what i'm confirming is that this is an nvidia BRIDGE chip in order to use SLI on an inte chipset right?

[Philip_J_Fry]

Also NVIDIA is scared that good voice of the new ATI RV770 based cards, and the fact that they work natively in CrossFire on x58 platform will further erode their GPU market share, so they're making desperate moves, and in their own style they're spinning the story in a wrong to justify ripping of Intel oriented users by making the x58 mobos more expensive for the price ot their "magic" SLi chip!

yeah agree... this sound like a desperate move



also does this mean X58 boards iwthout the n200 SB will support SLI as well?? anyone??

[Nedjo]

wait... can someone explain this to me in n00b terms? i'm still a little confused but this is what i'm understanding from all this. x58 mobos are the new nehalem chipset from intel that will natively support xfire just like x38/48 because intel will not give nvidia permission to have native SLI on this new chipset.

True and wrong!
1. x58 will natively support CrossFire, NOT 'cos they don't want to give nvidia ANY permission but 'cos ATI supports CrossFire on Intel chipsets w/o ANY charge!
2. Intel DOESN'T want to sell to nvidia "QuaickPath" licence so nvidia can't make SLi chipset (or any other chipset) for Nehalem.
3. In this situation only thing left for NVIDA to sell SLi on Intel chipset is to:
a) "unlock" their drivers
b) "unlock" their drivers and charge money for that by selling something touchable to mainboard makers (I guess if NVIDIA try to sell them "patch" for ForceWare, they would go mad)

so to get around this, nvidia makes their own chipset for mobo manufacturers to slap on the board so the board has both x58 chip + nForce200 chip?

That's partially true. Only thing that you've got wrong is the fact that nForce 200 isn't a chipset... it's probably something like PCI Express bridge on 780i(a) mainboards... but only nvidia knows exactly what it its...

yup shady move. the more crap on the mobo, the more potential problem there will be. like mentioned before, some people just want a basic x58 mobo without all the other gunk on it because in the end, it'll just inflate the mobo prices.

someone correct me if I'm wrong but basically all of the Nehalem mainboards are finished in terms of the design/layout and manufacturers are doing polishing to be ready for the next quarter and the launch of Nehalem!

Who on Earth would do some serious redesign of this expensive mobo three months prior to CPU launch?

Can someone spot a place for nForce 200 on these mainboards:

http://www.nehalemnews.com/2008/06/s...boards-at.html

[Logos]

yeah i get the part that they won't be making their own mobo chipset anymore (like 680i, 780/790i etc). what i'm confirming is that this is an nvidia BRIDGE chip in order to use SLI on an inte chipset right?

yes, that's correct. Read my post again, I edited it to add some info