Is Nvidia having trouble acquiring a Intel Common Serial Interface License?

[3NZ0]

You people are all acting like Nvidia is a cornered rat or something. What you fail to see is that they have one BIG option. How about, if it gets real dirty and Intel refuses to let them make any more chipsets, they take a 3bil loan and they buy AMD? And they make their cards AMD exclusive. Who is gonna make cards for the high-end intel systems then? With ATI under their wing and no other real option on the market, what will Intel do then, eh? Make their own? I'm writing this on an all out Intel machine and I can tell you one thing: Intel DO NOT know how to make a decent video card. Can't wait for my GeForce to get back from repairs...

Think about it.

It wouldn't happen, they would have an anti trust case shoved in their face quicker than you could say Intel CSI.

Also, Intel don't make discreet GPU's so I don't know what you're on about there.

why can't someone just hack the drivers again?

i imagine it can't be that hard

The encryption is supposed to be very strong and you would have to re hack for each driver release.

[lutjens]

You people are all acting like Nvidia is a cornered rat or something. What you fail to see is that they have one BIG option. How about, if it gets real dirty and Intel refuses to let them make any more chipsets, they take a 3bil loan and they buy AMD? And they make their cards AMD exclusive. Who is gonna make cards for the high-end intel systems then? With ATI under their wing and no other real option on the market, what will Intel do then, eh? Make their own? I'm writing this on an all out Intel machine and I can tell you one thing: Intel DO NOT know how to make a decent video card. Can't wait for my GeForce to get back from repairs...

Intel has the most skilled semiconductor engineers in the world. Engineers who designed a multiplier lock over a decade ago that was never successfully broken, and have created such a powerful CPU with the Core Duo and Core 2 Duo/Quad lineup that they have single-handedly made AMD's CPUs look woefully inadequate. Not to mention the fact that Intel has such a vast array of resources that if they really wanted to build a high performance graphics card, they could easily and quickly do it. They are, however, the world's largest semiconductor manufacturer and would likely draw very considerable antitrust attention if they used their position in the industry to purchase dominance in that field.

Intel's strategy here is impeccable...use your opponent's business plan against them. NVidia's business plan uses SLI as a lever to force people to buy their inferior chipsets...if NVidia has no chipset, their business plan falls to pieces. This forces NVidia to open SLI to all chipsets if they wish to continue to market it.

NVidia is used to being the 2000lb gorrilla and doing the bullying...their "our way or the highway" mantra on SLI confirms this. Unfortunately for them, Intel is a 20000lb gorilla...that NVidia tried to bully into paying hefty license fees to have SLI enabled on Intel chipsets. Intel is simply treating NVidia how NVidia has been treating the entire industry. I'm personally relishing the prospect of seeing NVidia officially cry uncle and be humbled before the entire industry it had no hesitation of pushing around when it suited them. What goes around comes around and I'll be eagerly watching when it comes around on NVidia when Nehalem ships.

[BullGod]

Think about it.

It wouldn't happen, they would have an anti trust case shoved in their face quicker than you could say Intel CSI.

Also, Intel don't make discreet GPU's so I don't know what you're on about there.



The encryption is supposed to be very strong and you would have to re hack for each driver release.

Intel do make embedded video cards though. So they couldn't make a point in a court of law. If that "merger" would happen, Nvidia would be practically just like them. A company that produces CPU's, chipsets and graphics cards. Also the big thing here that you people fail to see is not this chipset business but rather Intel's and AMD's plan to embed video cards into their CPU's that"s what has gotten Nvidia so angry now. I can imagine that if a single core from one of those 6 cores processors that everyone is talking about would be optimized as a GPU and another one as a northbridge, taking into consideration that they work at 3Ghz and up, it would make a killer machine. That's the real threat here, but frankly I think it's a bit tricky to pull off. And I don't like the idea in general, I think that for now the graphics aspect of the PC should stay as it is...

[rozzyroz]

Intel do make embedded video cards though. So they couldn't make a point in a court of law. If that "merger" would happen, Nvidia would be practically just like them. A company that produces CPU's, chipsets and graphics cards...

except 1 problem... if amd is sold off, the x86 license is no longer valid... as has been stated on this forum many many times.

[Donnie27]

The VIA Apollo 133T chipset was legendary... got Tualatins to 2GHz, the fastest CPUs for many years afterwards. Here's mine on air: http://valid.x86-secret.com/show_oc?id=166913

(im actually posting this on that pc, lol)

Sure, but look at how many tries it took to get it right? My Abit 133A Rev 1 stunk up the place and took two more revisions to get close to what anyone would call stable. Rev 1 & 2 686B should have been recalled FCOL! So about 6 out 10 I've owned. nVidia is where they are with Chipsets because VIA stunk so bad. The first few nVidia based boards sucked as well but were still a breath of fresh air compared to VIA. Sure there were a few good Chipsets that worked. The problem for VIA was that too many of them sucked.

[thephenom]

You people are all acting like Nvidia is a cornered rat or something. What you fail to see is that they have one BIG option. How about, if it gets real dirty and Intel refuses to let them make any more chipsets, they take a 3bil loan and they buy AMD? And they make their cards AMD exclusive. Who is gonna make cards for the high-end intel systems then? With ATI under their wing and no other real option on the market, what will Intel do then, eh? Make their own? I'm writing this on an all out Intel machine and I can tell you one thing: Intel DO NOT know how to make a decent video card. Can't wait for my GeForce to get back from repairs...

Heard of the Larrabee? Link

That's basically Intel's first step into GPU, while it probably won't be top of the line in its first one or two year, but don't be surprised when they make a monster GPU in the next few years.

[BullGod]

except 1 problem... if amd is sold off, the x86 license is no longer valid... as has been stated on this forum many many times.

So what? They could just make up a new CPU like AMD and Intel tried many years ago. If I've learned one thing is that people will buy whatever Nvidia feeds them. Just look at the 8600 card... But whatever this is pointless anyways, I've never really liked speculations. I for one wish that things stay exactly the same in the PC world for at least another 4 years.

[thephenom]

So what? They could just make up a new CPU like AMD and Intel tried many years ago. If I've learned one thing is that people will buy whatever Nvidia feeds them. Just look at the 8600 card... But whatever this is pointless anyways, I've never really liked speculations. I for one wish that things stay exactly the same in the PC world for at least another 4 years.

You make it sound like designing a new CPU architecture is as simple and cheap as a walk in the park.

[Ugly n Grey]

You make it sound like designing a new CPU architecture is as simple and cheap as a walk in the park.

Well it IS darn it, I mean they grow on trees

To another posters point, speculation can drive you mad sometimes, however the landscape of computing is changing rapidly and Nvidia is scrambling to offer more shareholder value. Being locked out of everything but discrete graphics would be bad for business, especially since Intel is driving forward with its GPU program. I'd be crapping bricks if I were Nvidia's chairman. I mean, my bonus would hinge on the stock price and they need to compete on as level a playing field as they can create.

While this thread and it's title are speculation, they are important questions to consider before you invest your money in chip maker stock. . Of course, it should play no role in what video card you buy really, I mean most us buy after we chose a m/b or whatever camp we like best.

[BullGod]

You make it sound like designing a new CPU architecture is as simple and cheap as a walk in the park.

Well it should take less than 25 years now shouldn't it? But at this rate in 10 years time we will still have that old architecture only with 30 cores. Because people usually run more than two intensive applications at a time now don't they? But yeah whateva... just let this die for now.

[Zucker2k]

You people are all acting like Nvidia is a cornered rat or something. What you fail to see is that they have one BIG option. How about, if it gets real dirty and Intel refuses to let them make any more chipsets, they take a 3bil loan and they buy AMD? And they make their cards AMD exclusive. Who is gonna make cards for the high-end intel systems then? With ATI under their wing and no other real option on the market, what will Intel do then, eh? Make their own? I'm writing this on an all out Intel machine and I can tell you one thing: Intel DO NOT know how to make a decent video card. Can't wait for my GeForce to get back from repairs...

That'll be tantamount to shooting itself in the foot... Nvidia sells more video cards on Intel platform than both Nvidia and AMD platforms combined.

[Shintai]

So what? They could just make up a new CPU like AMD and Intel tried many years ago. If I've learned one thing is that people will buy whatever Nvidia feeds them. Just look at the 8600 card... But whatever this is pointless anyways, I've never really liked speculations. I for one wish that things stay exactly the same in the PC world for at least another 4 years.

But what OS would it run and what games would it play?

[jarthel]

So what? They could just make up a new CPU like AMD and Intel tried many years ago.

if Nvidia decides to make a new CPU, what instruction set would it be using? It can't be x86 as they don't have license.

without x86, it won't on windows (or insert your favorite i386/x64 distro here).

you do understand now that your reply is very silly. right?

[virtualrain]

if Nvidia decides to make a new CPU, what instruction set would it be using? It can't be x86 as they don't have license.

without x86, it won't on windows (or insert your favorite i386/x64 distro here).

you do understand now that your reply is very silly. right?

Sidebar... How did AMD get an x86 license? How long is it for?

[kiikkuja]

I have no experiences beyond Nforce4 so i cannot say anything about them, but it sounds like their chipsets nowadays are crap.

So if i understood correctly, Nvidia would be better off making and selling GPU's only.

And letting atleast Intel use their SLI and maybe AMD too.

Lately they've been releasing mediocre products at best. Nvidia, forget the chipsets and give us something to drool on and make our e-penises big again!!

[savantu]

You people are all acting like Nvidia is a cornered rat or something. What you fail to see is that they have one BIG option. How about, if it gets real dirty and Intel refuses to let them make any more chipsets, they take a 3bil loan and they buy AMD? And they make their cards AMD exclusive. Who is gonna make cards for the high-end intel systems then? With ATI under their wing and no other real option on the market, what will Intel do then, eh? Make their own? I'm writing this on an all out Intel machine and I can tell you one thing: Intel DO NOT know how to make a decent video card. Can't wait for my GeForce to get back from repairs...

That sums it up nicely , isn't it ?

[flopper]

Nvidias sli seems to be a lost cause.
unless they open up the drivers.

I wouldnt get sli since in the future and amd dont have the goods for speed, however crossfireX on the Intel chipset is good enough.

I am a power user, and those who are even worse the 30inch people needs speed and pretty pictures.
Nvidias sli seems like it aint gonna be good due to a solo chipset.
who wants warmer, more issues with a motherboard?

[2000army]

Intel DO NOT know how to make a decent video card. Can't wait for my GeForce to get back from repairs...

Irony....

[BullGod]

Irony....

That's not funny man. It's over a month now and the only decent game I can play is Sins of a Solar Empire. Of course I'm kinda angry at Intel and Nvidia right now. They are both good companies though. ATI was too...

[BrowncoatGR]

Sidebar... How did AMD get an x86 license? How long is it for?

When Intel won the contract to be the CPU supplier for IBM's PC, IBM required that there was at least one more supplier of x86 CPUs. AMD won that contract. A few years later Intel tried to revoke AMDs licence. AMD sued and won the lawsuit and they now have a permanent non-transferable x86 license. BTW Nvidia could try to buy Via or at least their Centaur CPU division if they wanted to enter the x86 CPU market although im not sure if VIA's parent company would want to sell.

[Ugly n Grey]

When Intel won the contract to be the CPU supplier for IBM's PC, IBM required that there was at least one more supplier of x86 CPUs. AMD won that contract. A few years later Intel tried to revoke AMDs licence. AMD sued and won the lawsuit and they now have a permanent non-transferable x86 license. BTW Nvidia could try to buy Via or at least their Centaur CPU division if they wanted to enter the x86 CPU market although im not sure if VIA's parent company would want to sell.

That license is also non transferable. IBM ALSO has a license that goes beyond just x86 instructions. They can produce Pentium clones (not their own chip, Intel's actual Pentium) . I think this was granted to make the US military feel good about the (radiation) hardened Pentium CPU's they use in their equipment so there would potentially be a second source of supply.

Coming up to modern times I have no idea what it means in practice except that Nvidia can't buy an X86 license by acquisition, they pretty much have to beg Intel for their own if they want to get into compatible CPU production. The bar is so high I just can't see any company wanting to get into building desktop style CPU's. We all know AMD is not on top in the performance class, but they do have some very good tech in play in this arena at the moment both on server and consumer sides.

Anyhow, there is just no reason for Intel to grant Nvidia license to anything. In fact just thinking as a shareholder, I'd scream blue murder as there's nothing in this that would increase profits to Intel. There's other areas for the green team to grow, games, consoles, physics, parallel processing, handheld device chips and the list goes on. Nvidia has a bright future if they choose where they go carefully and they are definitely a tech savvy company. But mixing it up with Intel is not a great idea.

[3NZ0]

Intel do make embedded video cards though. So they couldn't make a point in a court of law. If that "merger" would happen, Nvidia would be practically just like them. A company that produces CPU's, chipsets and graphics cards. Also the big thing here that you people fail to see is not this chipset business but rather Intel's and AMD's plan to embed video cards into their CPU's that"s what has gotten Nvidia so angry now. I can imagine that if a single core from one of those 6 cores processors that everyone is talking about would be optimized as a GPU and another one as a northbridge, taking into consideration that they work at 3Ghz and up, it would make a killer machine. That's the real threat here, but frankly I think it's a bit tricky to pull off. And I don't like the idea in general, I think that for now the graphics aspect of the PC should stay as it is...

They make IGP's, IGP != Discreet GPU.

Merger wouldn't happen, again.