Whats up with the Aquaduct?

[NaeKuh]

Bring it on sucka!!!! Hey I just think it looks swank. I have been all over the watercooling spectrum. My first kit was an Exos and it worked damn fine. Was just too loud for me. Moved up to a pc75 with Rad up top. Used the original White Water block on that one. Moved up to an external system called the V5 made by JPI performance systems and that is the system I have liked the best. Then I got my G5 and have loved that block however am not loving the case I have it in.(V2000). I love having new cases and so an external system for me is ideal. Have looked at Newls system and like it alot. Also taking a look at Lechucks system. I pmed him but he has not gotten back to me. Really want the Silverstone TJ10 next and so want an external system that will go with any case.

And after you going though all that, your still willing to mix metals?

Okey...

What have i gone though.

No kits in particular except swiftech apex

Ive gone though:
BIP, BIX, BIGTS, BIGTX, MCR120, MCR220, MCR320, PA120.2 PA120.3

Pumps:
AquaXtreme 50z, D4, D5, DDC-1, DDC-2, RD-30, CPS MAGII,

CPU Waterblocks:
Apogee, ApogeeGT, ApogeeGTX, Storm Rev.1, and Rev.2, DD TDX, DD RBX, D-tek Fusion, SP-05,

<dont get me started on GPU blocks>


So.... You still want a fight?

[RickCain]

What have i gone though.

Pumps:
CPS MAGII,

I feel for you

What about the Spir@l, TC-4, TC-4 rev2, Maze4, and WW CPU blocks?

[septim]

MAG2 pump lolz...

TN more pics please.

[MaxxxRacer]

Rick, the mod you did on the flow meter is going to cause it to read lower flow rates than you actually have.

the inlet of the flow meter was restrict because to get an accurate reading it needs to creat a jet of water coming at the paddle. You increased the size of the inlet, thus reducing the water velocity. the reduced water velocity will cause the meters paddle to spin slower and thus the readings will be lower.

I'm sure you can adjust for it in the Aquaduct software, but I felt that I should point it out.

[louie101086]

cant wait to see this.... subscribed

[Top Nurse]

Rick, the mod you did on the flow meter is going to cause it to read lower flow rates than you actually have.

the inlet of the flow meter was restrict because to get an accurate reading it needs to creat a jet of water coming at the paddle. You increased the size of the inlet, thus reducing the water velocity. the reduced water velocity will cause the meters paddle to spin slower and thus the readings will be lower.

I'm sure you can adjust for it in the Aquaduct software, but I felt that I should point it out.

I did the same thing with my flow meter this evening. Some people just open up the intake to around 6mm and then put the input line to the output side of the flow meter that has a defined 5.9mm hole. The pulses per liter is known for that configuration.

What RickCain and I did was to open both holes which makes for a better flow. To finish the job we will both have to redefine our Aquaero pulses per liter in the Aquaero. It's a PITA job because you have to measure exactly what you get out of your system during a one minute time frame and do it several times to get a good figure.

It is probably a two person job because if you let the Aquaduct run out of coolant on the fill side you got major problems and would have to drain and refill it to get the air out again.

If anyone is interested you can find the manual here.

[Top Nurse]

MAG2 pump lolz...

TN more pics please.

Okay I have to go get some sleep because I got a 12 hour shift in the ER tomorrow, but I will post some more pics tomorrow evening. I also get a chance to flame AC some more over some stupid stuff they did.

[MaxxxRacer]

I did the same thing with my flow meter this evening. Some people just open up the intake to around 6mm and then put the input line to the output side of the flow meter that has a defined 5.9mm hole. The pulses per liter is known for that configuration.

What RickCain and I did was to open both holes which makes for a better flow. To finish the job we will both have to redefine our Aquaero pulses per liter in the Aquaero. It's a PITA job because you have to measure exactly what you get out of your system during a one minute time frame and do it several times to get a good figure.

It is probably a two person job because if you let the Aquaduct run out of coolant on the fill side you got major problems and would have to drain and refill it to get the air out again.

If anyone is interested you can find the manual here.

eek. thats alot of work just to get a relatively accurately flow measurement. I suppose its nice, but that device imposes alot of restriction just for flow measurements. IMO it would have been prudent to just have a flow indicator. if its spinning the system is ok and if not, the software initiates a shutdown sequence.

I assume the base of the Aquaduct is annodized aluminum? In the pics it kind of looks like delrin but I doubt it.

[Marci]

Will a PA 120.3 fit in there instead of the AC one?

fan holes are spaced 25mm apart instead of 15mm on standard rads IIRC, so I don't think it's possible to just do a quick swap.

ThermoChill PA Series fan spacing is 25mm.

[chunkylover77]

And after you going though all that, your still willing to mix metals?

Okey...

What have i gone though.

No kits in particular except swiftech apex

Ive gone though:
BIP, BIX, BIGTS, BIGTX, MCR120, MCR220, MCR320, PA120.2 PA120.3

Pumps:
AquaXtreme 50z, D4, D5, DDC-1, DDC-2, RD-30, CPS MAGII,

CPU Waterblocks:
Apogee, ApogeeGT, ApogeeGTX, Storm Rev.1, and Rev.2, DD TDX, DD RBX, D-tek Fusion, SP-05,

<dont get me started on GPU blocks>


So.... You still want a fight?

Come on now I didn't go through all my blocks and pumps and rads.

What I have now is G5, Weapon heatercore, Silverprop Gpu, RD30. All in a v2000. I'm bored with the case and really would like a better Rad and gpu block. I want to go external because I like getting new cases.

[NaeKuh]

Come on now I didn't go through all my blocks and pumps and rads.

What I have now is G5, Weapon heatercore, Silverprop Gpu, RD30. All in a v2000. I'm bored with the case and really would like a better Rad and gpu block. I want to go external because I like getting new cases.

Well, i just wanted to state, im scared to mix metals at even my level of experience. In truth i already mixed metals, and ran into several nightmares. I messed up once, and my cousin messed up twice.

I think i lost my BIX, because i wanted bling a very long time ago, and mixed it with a TT aquabay. <--- BAD MOVE.

My cousin lost his reserator, and bigwater kit because he mixed metals.

So if you went though all that, and your still willing to mix metals.. :X


Max, that AC additive contains phosphate, wasnt it a big nono to use a phosphate based coolant because it caused damage on the pumps?

[YugenM]

Well, i just wanted to state, im scared to mix metals at even my level of experience. In truth i already mixed metals, and ran into several nightmares. I messed up once, and my cousin messed up twice.

I think i lost my BIX, because i wanted bling a very long time ago, and mixed it with a TT aquabay. <--- BAD MOVE.

My cousin lost his reserator, and bigwater kit because he mixed metals.

So if you went though all that, and your still willing to mix metals.. :X


Max, that AC additive contains phosphate, wasnt it a big nono to use a phosphate based coolant because it caused damage on the pumps?

*Glances at Innovatek aluminum GPU block, then coolant containing AC additive*

uh oh...

[Top Nurse]

Max, that AC additive contains phosphate, wasnt it a big nono to use a phosphate based coolant because it caused damage on the pumps?

Well, i just wanted to state, im scared to mix metals at even my level of experience. In truth i already mixed metals, and ran into several nightmares. I messed up once, and my cousin messed up twice.

I think i lost my BIX, because i wanted bling a very long time ago, and mixed it with a TT aquabay. <--- BAD MOVE.

My cousin lost his reserator, and bigwater kit because he mixed metals.

So if you went though all that, and your still willing to mix metals.. :X

Wow we are on a roll lately. First it was the tubing size that hit the burners and now we get to talk about AC Fluid protecting the world.

You can think what you want about phosphates, but you need to be specific about the exact chemical compound being used as there are lots of phosphate compounds. Due to a recent post here on XS we now know that this is the phosphate compound we are talking about. Please keep in mind that I am not a chemist and only had a few chemistry classes in college. However, I am quoting from the link above for the information I think is pertinent: "Phosphonates offer a wide range of sequestrants to control metal ions in aqueous systems. By forming stable water soluble complexes with multivalent metal ions, phosphonates prevent undesired interaction by blocking normal reactivity of metal ions. This ability contributes to function as threshold industrial water treatment and metal treatment processes (antiscalants, corrosion inhibitors, chelants, sludge conditioners, pulp bleachings, deflocculants, dispersants, metal cleaners, electroplating and crystal growth modifiers)."

This has been used by me for several years now with no ill effects from galvanic corrosion and my pumps and other water cooling hardware look just like new (when I change my coolant once a year I tear down what I can't visually see). Other chemical compounds used to control galvanic corrosion are much more bothersome in the context of what we use it for.

For instance many use glycol based automotive chemicals because at high concentrations (15-30%) it can help prevent galvanic corrosion and add lubricity. However, this has an untoward effect in that it decreases the efficiency of water to transfer heat into, which is a bad thing. Also using glycol based coolant was very unfriendly to the environment because most people would pour this stuff down the drain when exchanging coolant. So most people, given what they knew, decided that mixing aluminum within a copper based loop just wasn't worth the trouble, right?

While all this was going on in the USA there was another group of water coolers in Europe, primarily Germans, who were also looking for water additives that would help with water cooling. Now the people in Europe are more conscious about the environment that those on this side of the pond. Consequently environmental laws are more tough there so the use of automotive based additives was somewhat frowned upon.

Fast forward a few years and there is now two distinct schools of thought about water cooling additives. Here in the Western Hemisphere we have been moving away from aluminum in the water cooling circuit because it causes galvanic corrosion and the fix to stop it (automotive based additives) decreases waters ability to carry away heat by decreasing the efficiency of water. Makes perfect sense given what we know to even a school child, right?

Over on the other side of the pond we have the other school of thought which found a totally water soluble ingredient that would stop galvanic corrosion from occurring, add a small amount of lubricity to the water, and all at a very low concentration (2%). So that is why you see items like AC Fluid and TEC Protect being sold in Europe and lately being imported into the Western Hemisphere.

That is also the reason you see much more aluminum being used in Europewhere it makes sense to do so in a water cooling loop. Mostly you see aluminum in Europe being used in motherboard coolers for ram and VR's because copper is a waste of money on those items not producing heat to the degree that the CPU and NB put out. We also see aluminum being used there in full cover GPU blocks for a similar reason. However, I think we will see less and less aluminum used here as the price comes down and more people adopt the really heat producing GPU's like the 88xx series of cards.

So now you can believe either story you want and personally I really don't care what you do believe in. Course I am interested in not having galvanic corrosion in my loop and I also like the my aluminum Aquatube and my VR block. So for me I am sticking with my AC Fluid because I know it does exactly what I want it to do.

The only thing really left here to do is to figure out how much of a loss in temperature efficiency of water can be traceable to the AC Fluid. Personally I don't see that a totally water soluble chemical in a 2% concentration (2% additive to 98% distilled) is going to make much difference. However, I also think it would be better that we proved this to ourselves, right?

So I am willing to invest some of money to get this testing done and I need some of your help. What I need is some testers who have water temperature sensors so that they can measure the water in their loops before and after adding a 2% mixture. I will supply a bottle of AC Fluid and a syringe to accurately measure the stuff and you just report back here what your results are.

[Top Nurse]

ThermoChill PA Series fan spacing is 25mm.

Does that mean that there is approximately a 1" space between the fans?

[Top Nurse]

eek. thats alot of work just to get a relatively accurately flow measurement. I suppose its nice, but that device imposes alot of restriction just for flow measurements. IMO it would have been prudent to just have a flow indicator. if its spinning the system is ok and if not, the software initiates a shutdown sequence.

I assume the base of the Aquaduct is annodized aluminum? In the pics it kind of looks like delrin but I doubt it.

It doesn't after you open the holes to the same size as the tubing used, but I assume there is still a small amount of restriction just to make the paddle wheels go around. And of course you only have to do the measurement one time. The alternative is to to have the pump limited to about 80 LPH when it can go up to about 200+ LPH due to the problem seen below:







BTW, there is a flow indicator on the side of the Aquaduct, but it is just a small red plastic ball that lets you know everything is right when you turn the pump on.

The bottom is aluminum that has been hard anodized by Rhodes A.G.

I pilfered a bit off the site that concerns us:


Corrosion-Protection

Anodized layers, produced according to accerted standards, possess an excellent durability against industrial and sea athmospheres.

Layer Build-Up

During the hard-anodizing process the oxide layer grows (different from decorative anodizing) forming columns to about 50% within the base material, the other 50% builds up externally.



Characteristics of Hard-Coating

• Hardness: 300 to 450 HV
• Layer thickness: up to 140 µm
• Material self-colouring capacity
• Wear-resistant – similar to hard-chrome
• Corrosion resistant against climatic influences
and a multitude of chemicals

[AndyM]

Any chance of getting a thickness and fins per inch measurement on that radiator?

[YugenM]

Does that mean that there is approximately a 1" space between the fans?

just pulled out the measuring tape on my PA:

spacing between the fan holes is 1", but the spacing between the edges of the fans are closer to 3/8" (but I may be reading the measuring tape incorrectly, since we're on the metric system here.)

[Top Nurse]

Any chance of getting a thickness and fins per inch measurement on that radiator?

I think it is around 22 fins per inch and 1.187 thick (total thickness)

[NaeKuh]

[QUOTE=Top Nurse;2280116]Wow we are on a roll lately. First it was the tubing size that hit the burners and now we get to talk about AC Fluid protecting the world.

QUOTE]

Sorry i had to condense it.

But you totally missed the whole point on my question.

I am asking MAX if using phosphate based coolants was a bad thing, because i remember reading about them. And how they damaged the pump and the impeller. I am NOT asking about corrosion or anything else which you are so energetically jumping to.

If i remember correctly, using phosphate based coolants caused a buildup on the impeller chamber which then caused pump failure. This question was not directed at corrosion so dont jump at it.

This is also why using regular antifreeze is not recomended, because most of them are phosphate based, minus the ones exotic car companys use, like porshe and audi.

I dont think AC went out to a porshe or audi dealer to pick up some antifreeze. And someone also quoted it smelled like waffles which is almost near what a water wetter smells like. So TN, once again, you need to read the question im asking about, and if you have no idea, then you need to keep quiet until someone who does know what the correct answer is.

[RickCain]

I dont think AC went out to a porshe or audi dealer to pick up some antifreeze. And someone also quoted it smelled like waffles which is almost near what a water wetter smells like. So TN, once again, you need to read the question im asking about, and if you have no idea, then you need to keep quiet until someone who does know what the correct answer is.

Yep, does smell like some tasty waffles!

There also were some reported problems with AC fluid and alpha cool blocks. To be exact the AC fluid ate the o-ring.

[Top Nurse]

But you totally missed the whole point on my question.

I am asking MAX if using phosphate based coolants was a bad thing, because i remember reading about them. And how they damaged the pump and the impeller. I am NOT asking about corrosion or anything else which you are so energetically jumping to.

If i remember correctly, using phosphate based coolants caused a buildup on the impeller chamber which then caused pump failure. This question was not directed at corrosion so dont jump at it.

This is also why using regular antifreeze is not recomended, because most of them are phosphate based, minus the ones exotic car companys use, like porshe and audi.

I dont think AC went out to a porshe or audi dealer to pick up some antifreeze. And someone also quoted it smelled like waffles which is almost near what a water wetter smells like. So TN, once again, you need to read the question im asking about, and if you have no idea, then you need to keep quiet until someone who does know what the correct answer is.

Well I was trying to save server space by just quoting a small part of your post. I went back and quoted the whole of your post just to make you happy. However, aren't you sounding like a broken record here? You keep saying the same FUD over and over again.

Please try to add something to the conversation that might be helpful, okay? If you think that the stuff in AC fluid is going to cause problems then there certainly should be conversations and information about it correct? Then instead of interjecting FUD please just show us some information or data that connects the AC Fluid ingredient with your comment. Mentioning what some other chemical compound did or does to water cooling components is just not helpful here? Didn't I specifically state that the stuff used in Europe in non-glycol based?

Why is it you fail to believe that AC Fluid or TEC Protect does what it does when years of it's use in Europe has failed to produce the dire problems you say it does? Is it because the people reporting it don't read, write, or speak English? If so then get your Google translator on and do some searching through the European forums.

Yep, does smell like some tasty waffles!

There also were some reported problems with AC fluid and alpha cool blocks. To be exact the AC fluid ate the o-ring.

That might be possible because it has a very low amount of acid in it. However, I sincerely doubt it happened at the recommended solution rate of 2&#37;. I've noticed that many water cooler's don't pay attention to the instructions and just dump the whole bottle in their loop thinking that more is better.

BTW, do you use AC Fluid and at the recommended solution level? I have always considered just using distilled h20 and some kind of anti-biological agent in my loop because I trust the quality of hard anodizing that AC does, but since I don't think it has any noticeable negative effects I have just used it anyway. However, if someone can point me to some data that says otherwise I'm all ears.

[AndyM]

I think it is around 22 fins per inch and 1.187 thick (total thickness)

I cant wait to see the temps hopefully with a 100+ Watt w/OC C2D and a gfx card block in there. Kinda concerned that the FPI isnt what is usually viewed as good for slow fan speeds. How noisy is that thing?

[NaeKuh]

Well I was trying to save server space by just quoting a small part of your post. I went back and quoted the whole of your post just to make you happy. However, aren't you sounding like a broken record here? You keep saying the same FUD over and over again.

Please try to add something to the conversation that might be helpful, okay? If you think that the stuff in AC fluid is going to cause problems then there certainly should be conversations and information about it correct? Then instead of interjecting FUD please just show us some information or data that connects the AC Fluid ingredient with your comment. Mentioning what some other chemical compound did or does to water cooling components is just not helpful here? Didn't I specifically state that the stuff used in Europe in non-glycol based?

Why is it you fail to believe that AC Fluid or TEC Protect does what it does when years of it's use in Europe has failed to produce the dire problems you say it does? Is it because the people reporting it don't read, write, or speak English? If so then get your Google translator on and do some searching through the European forums.



That might be possible because it has a very low amount of acid in it. However, I sincerely doubt it happened at the recommended solution rate of 2&#37;. I've noticed that many water cooler's don't pay attention to the instructions and just dump the whole bottle in their loop thinking that more is better.

BTW, do you use AC Fluid and at the recommended solution level? I have always considered just using distilled h20 and some kind of anti-biological agent in my loop because I trust the quality of hard anodizing that AC does, but since I don't think it has any noticeable negative effects I have just used it anyway. However, if someone can point me to some data that says otherwise I'm all ears.

are u an idiot??? im sorry one second your praising this guy for finding the secret igrediant, and now your telling me to get my facts correct?

ACfluid active ingredient.

While i certainly advocate non mixed metal loops some of the posts about mixed metal loops are a bit dramatic. I don't think mixed metal loops are needed or desirable nowadays as almost anything is available in all copper or Delrin versions.

Yet a properly designed and maintained mixed metal loop will not cause any issues, my longest serving loop was in mint condition after 4 years of service with G11 as well as a system that ran for 2 year with G12+. Even without additive and protective coating the aluminum parts of the unit appear rather solid to me, 1 mm+ will will take some time go from cosmetic to structural impact.

Are Aquaduct buyers capable of properly maintaining the system? That is where i see the problem.

DO YOU NOT REMEMBER THIS POST ON PAGE 3???

DO YOU KNOW HOW TO READ? IT SAYS ITS A PHOSPHATE BASED CHEMICAL.

Get your head out of wonderland, you aint wendy, and im sure peter pan would of kicked you off the ship a long time ago.

Im seriously SICK and tired of your stupid and lame comments. WAS my question about phosphate based coolant directed at you? NO it was at MAX.

You just lost all respect i had in you.

IF YOU CANT KEEP TRACK OF YOUR OWN THREAD THEN STOP POSTING.

[Top Nurse]

Dead silent most of the time from what others have reported. The fans that come with the Aquaduct are new items from AC which they call Airstream. Here's a stock pic because I haven't taken off the fans.

[Top Nurse]

are u an idiot??? im sorry one second your praising this guy for finding the secret igrediant, and now your telling me to get my facts correct?

DO YOU NOT REMEMBER THIS POST ON PAGE 3???

DO YOU KNOW HOW TO READ? IT SAYS ITS A PHOSPHATE BASED CHEMICAL.

Get your head out of wonderland, you aint wendy, and im sure peter pan would of kicked you off the ship a long time ago.

Im seriously SICK and tired of your stupid and lame comments. WAS my question about phosphate based coolant directed at you? NO it was at MAX.

You just lost all respect i had in you.

IF YOU CANT KEEP TRACK OF YOUR OWN THREAD THEN STOP POSTING.

Are you a child? I'm not trying to make fun of you, but just want to know how to talk to you in a language you will understand. I do the same social assessment on every one of my patients so that I neither talk down or talk over their comprehension level. Once you let me know where your at I will then explain more about my post, okay?