Whats up with the Aquaduct?

[RickCain]

^ I second that (both parts). I want to see temperatures.

I also want to see a couple 8800GTXs in the loop as well, and maybe a northbridge and a southbridge if that's possible, as it was with my PA120.3.

Funny thing is that is what most Euro companies build their goods for (many blocks in the loop). Most US based systems consist of a CPU and maybe GPU, GPU but more often have separate loops for the GPU GPU configuration.

TN should be posting results with CPU, GPU, GPU, NB, HD, HD, HD all off one loop.

My goal is to retrofit mine with a DDC1 and 8mm id tubing to see how much better it performs since we all now know the pump can overcome smaller tubing.

[buffbiff21]

My goal is to retrofit mine with a DDC1 and 8mm id tubing to see how much better it performs since we all now know the pump can overcome smaller tubing.

If it doesn't die first

[NaeKuh]

no TOP nurse, i still hold my vow about overall flaming until the results are out.

But i cant stress how bad it is to mix metals.

Why? because i have gone though nightmares, my cousin has gone though nightmares, we have clear documented episodes where mixing metals has ran into nightmares.

And at nicks, IM NOT FLAMING HER, IM FLAMING THE OVERALL PRODUCT.

Do you aprove of mixing metals? did you not read marci's post about vendors needing to idiot proof there stuff as much as possible? Could you recomend a newbie to mix metals even tho he has had anti corrosion fluid?

@Iany: Gabe gave the milspec plating. And were talking about plating there pal. This is straight annodized alu, or maybe even no annodizing. I Give this product litterally 2 months without any additives b4 it rips a hole right though the side and someone crys that they lost a 540 dollar unit.

And if they are mixing metals, then why make the CPU block copper? At least XSPC was smart and made most of there blocks alu. Koolance gold plated most of there stuff. Even zalman uses gold plating with alu blocks.

AquaPC blocks are copper, the reservoir is alu. <---- this doesnt look good.

Im not trying to flame anyone or anything, and i was seriously interested in buying a PAIR for my HTPC setup. YES I WAS ACTUALLY GOING TO GIVE IT A TRY PENDING HER RESULTS.

But now that its mixing metals... Hellz no.... unless aquapc rep wants to answer my questions i asked above, i wouldnt touch this thing with a 10 foot pole.


So whats the annodized process?
What assurance do we have that it wont corrode?
Whats the warrenty on it if it does corrode?

These are VERY important topics that need to be discussed b4 you buy this product.

[Top Nurse]

As I was dozing off last night into AC heaven I thought about this. You guys want real results on AC blocks and equipment, right?

So why don't we do a little experiment. How about I go to the lab supply and pick up some beakers that can be sealed. We then put regular distilled water in one and a 2&#37; mix of AC Fluid + distilled water into the other.

Then we sit them up on my shelf with both an AC copper and aluminum block in each of them. Then I take pics and post them here for the next 5 years. Would that make you all feel happier?

[Top Nurse]

If it doesn't die first

Since it's been done quite a lot over the last few years, the only failures we will see is the naturally occurring ones from the Laing garbage getting out of the factory. In case you don't know, AC sells DDC pumps and even makes a controller board to run them that is accessible through the Aquasuite software.

[NaeKuh]

As I was dozing off last night into AC heaven I thought about this. You guys want real results on AC blocks and equipment, right?

So why don't we do a little experiment. How about I go to the lab supply and pick up some beakers that can be sealed. We then put regular distilled water in one and a 2&#37; mix of AC Fluid + distilled water into the other.

Then we sit them up on my shelf with both an AC copper and aluminum block in each of them. Then I take pics and post them here for the next 5 years. Would that make you all feel happier?

ummmm.... i prefer aquapc answer my three questions i posted at top. If they have nothing to hide, they would be more then willing to answer it, like gabe did with the apogeeGTX.

And Top Nurse, no offense, but you dont have the liability to answer any of the vendors questions like this. Will you pay us if the unit breaks? will you repair the unit for us? Are you licensed by AC to repair or modify there units?

So, as much as i and everyone else loves your imput, id suggest you keep the vendor questions out of your posts. AquaPC does have a rep here, and he should be fully able to answer my questions like gabe did with swiftech and the apogeeGTX.


And as i said i was prepared to drop $1080 for a pair on a HTPC setup. AquaPC rep now has to assure me my 1080 dollars wont goto waste on a thing that will leak a pinhole 2-5months down the road.

And i hate additives, because it reduces water properties. The only additive i even consider is a tiny bit of glycol to help lube my pumps. Water wetter, which is most likely whats in that AC fluid package, will hurt performance.

[rogueagent6]

As I was dozing off last night into AC heaven I thought about this. You guys want real results on AC blocks and equipment, right?

So why don't we do a little experiment. How about I go to the lab supply and pick up some beakers that can be sealed. We then put regular distilled water in one and a 2% mix of AC Fluid + distilled water into the other.

Then we sit them up on my shelf with both an AC copper and aluminum block in each of them. Then I take pics and post them here for the next 5 years. Would that make you all feel happier?

Better yet, why not do what buff suggested? Add an OC'd Intel quad core, two 8800GTX's, and a NB block and see how it performs. If it's as good as you swear it is it will end the debate right here and now.

[NaeKuh]

Better yet, why not do what buff suggested? Add an OC'd Intel quad core, two 8800GTX's, and a NB block and see how it performs. If it's as good as you swear it is it will end the debate right here and now.

now thats not really fair. I dont think a PA120.3 could handle that kind of load with a single pump solution.

Assuming the GTX were at full load with RTHDRIBL
And the Quad Overclocked to 1.5Vcore Real, while running orthos.

But if it could hold up to that.

I'll use the water wetter, and get 2 of these babies right now.

[RickCain]

Better yet, why not do what buff suggested? Add an OC'd Intel quad core, two 8800GTX's, and a NB block and see how it performs. If it's as good as you swear it is it will end the debate right here and now.

Funny, I would say 1 out of 50 loops I see have more than three blocks around here so why ask for more than the norm?

Maybe you have not been around people who use AC gear but NOT ONCE will anyone say it will cool as well as a higher flow system. That is not the point of this product. It will cool very well while having a much higher esthetic quality about it.

If you don't like the product there is not reason to flame it, just don't post in this thread and it will fall out of view on the forum. Continuing to flame it will only heighten the awareness of it.

now thats not really fair. I dont think a PA120.3 could handle that kind of load with a single pump solution.

Assuming the GTX were at full load with RTHDRIBL
And the Quad Overclocked to 1.5Vcore Real, while running orthos.

But if it could hold up to that.

I'll use the water wetter, and get 2 of these babies right now.

It could just not with optimal temps

[Top Nurse]

And i hate additives, because it reduces water properties. The only additive i even consider is a tiny bit of glycol to help lube my pumps. Water wetter, which is most likely whats in that AC fluid package, will hurt performance.

You can take a horse to the water, but you can't make him drink.

It isn't water wetter and since it is a proprietary product I don't see them disclosing what's in it. Like I said before it is an anti-corrosive agent and nothing else.

[Top Nurse]

Better yet, why not do what buff suggested? Add an OC'd Intel quad core, two 8800GTX's, and a NB block and see how it performs. If it's as good as you swear it is it will end the debate right here and now.

Are you supplying the hardware? Please PM me for shipping details. It might take a long time to get the testing done right.

If you don't like the product there is not reason to flame it, just don't post in this thread and it will fall out of view on the forum. Continuing to flame it will only heighten the awareness of it.

Like I said before all your absurd demands and flaming just turns people to AC products. Please stop it because it is getting harder and harder for the AC factory to crank out the stuff I want.

[NaeKuh]

You can take a horse to the water, but you can't make him drink.

It isn't water wetter and since it is a proprietary product I don't see them disclosing what's in it. Like I said before it is an anti-corrosive agent and nothing else.

It HAS to be water wetter.

If it isnt, then i seriously wouldnt touch that stuff with a 50foot pole even.

Okey once again i will post this:
Galvanic corrosion occurs when two different metals electrically contact each other and are immersed in an electrolyte. In order for galvanic corrosion to occur, an electrically conductive path and an ionically conductive path are necessary. This effects a galvanic couple where the more active metal corrodes at an accelerated rate and the more noble metal corrodes at a retarded rate. When immersed, neither metal would normally corrode as quickly without the electrically conductive connection (usually via a wire or direct contact). Galvanic corrosion is often utilised in sacrificial anodes. What type of metal(s) to use is readily determined by following the galvanic series. For example, zinc is often used as a sacrificial anode for steel structures, such as pipelines or docked naval ships. Galvanic corrosion is of major interest to the marine industry and also anywhere water can contact pipes or metal structures.


So unless that aqua duct has a sacrafical piece of Zinc in it, it has to be in the additive.

And if its in liquid form, it has to be a water wetter.

http://e30m3performance.com/myths/mo...ter_wetter.htm

Some info on water wetters. This is why i dont like them.

http://www.racerpartswholesale.com/redline3.htm

They also smell really really bad. Hence why people tend to only use them in cars.

[lee143]

Funny, I would say 1 out of 50 loops I see have more than three blocks around here so why ask for more than the norm?

Maybe you have not been around people who use AC gear but NOT ONCE will anyone say it will cool as well as a higher flow system. That is not the point of this product. It will cool very well while having a much higher esthetic quality about it.

If you don't like the product there is not reason to flame it, just don't post in this thread and it will fall out of view on the forum. Continuing to flame it will only heighten the awareness of it.



It could just not with optimal temps

I'm pretty sure TN has said that before.

[RickCain]

I'm pretty sure TN has said that before.

Find it as I don't think she is that bold.

[Top Nurse]

It HAS to be water wetter.

If it isnt, then i seriously wouldnt touch that stuff with a 50foot pole even.

So unless that aqua duct has a sacrafical piece of Zinc in it, it has to be in the additive.

And if its in liquid form, it has to be a water wetter.

They also smell really really bad. Hence why people tend to only use them in cars.

Do you really think that water wetter is the only stuff in the world that is used as an anti-corrosive agent in water? You may very well be right, but with a 2% mixture this stuff smells like a very light rose water to me.

[Top Nurse]

I'm pretty sure TN has said that before.

Good luck. What I said was that you wouldn't see much, if any, difference in the way the computer operates.

[NaeKuh]

Do you really think that water wetter is the only stuff in the world that is used as an anti-corrosive agent in water? You may very well be right, but with a 2% mixture this stuff smells like a very light rose water to me.

i honestly think it would be a form of water wetter. Or something very cloes to it.

It maybe called something different in germany, but if you boil the chemcials down, it should be simular to a water wetter. :T

[Top Nurse]

Well I'm fairly sure it isn't water wetter and it doesn't take a chemist to figure this out. IIRC WW is noted to cause failure of certain types of plexi, correct? If so I can absolutely guarantee they aren't going to have WW anywhere within 50 feet of the systems as they have lots of plexi.

You got to quit thinking about automotive solutions...

[NaeKuh]

Well I'm fairly sure it isn't water wetter and it doesn't take a chemist to figure this out. IIRC WW is noted to cause failure of certain types of plexi, correct? If so I can absolutely guarantee they aren't going to have WW anywhere within 50 feet of the systems as they have lots of plexi.

You got to quit thinking about automotive solutions...

you are aware computer watercooling is a product of automotive cooling.

And i wouldnt give aquapc that much credit. If there mixing metals thinking its okey, i dont think they care about a water wetter breaking plexiglass, when you risk corrosion.


My 2 cents...


I REALLY REALLY WISH THE AQUAPC REP WOULD JUST POST A RESPONSE TO MY QUESTIONS.

No offense top nurse, you arent qualified once again to answer these questions. Your not the vendor, nor have you been given liability of the vendor. So all your responses dont mean much unless your quotting whats printed on there disclamer.

[Fairydust]

i honestly think it would be a form of water wetter. Or something very cloes to it.

It maybe called something different in germany, but if you boil the chemcials down, it should be simular to a water wetter. :T

ACfluid active ingredient.

While i certainly advocate non mixed metal loops some of the posts about mixed metal loops are a bit dramatic. I don't think mixed metal loops are needed or desirable nowadays as almost anything is available in all copper or Delrin versions.

Yet a properly designed and maintained mixed metal loop will not cause any issues, my longest serving loop was in mint condition after 4 years of service with G11 as well as a system that ran for 2 year with G12+. Even without additive and protective coating the aluminum parts of the unit appear rather solid to me, 1 mm+ will will take some time go from cosmetic to structural impact.

Are Aquaduct buyers capable of properly maintaining the system? That is where i see the problem.

[Top Nurse]

ACfluid active ingredient.

Are Aquaduct buyers capable of properly maintaining the system? That is where i see the problem.

I see you had better luck than I did in tracking down what it said on the outside of the AC Fluid bottle. I only got as far as the phosphonates and couldn't find anything past a general info blurb.

I see no reason why any reasonable buyer of the AC Aquaduct would have any problems as the manual covers the filling and yearly maintenance cycles. Of course if they start mucking about with Aquaduct like you will see me doing tomorrow then all bets are off. They really crammed a lot of water cooling equipment and electronics into that little space. Reminds me of looking in a military aircraft chassis.

Personally after looking at all the machining and assembly work that went into building it I am tempted to go buy another before they raise the price on these jewels.

[Halk]

Hmm, does that mean the AC fluid is not a biocide?

I don't want to be keeping an army of pets in my loop

[NaeKuh]

ACfluid active ingredient.

While i certainly advocate non mixed metal loops some of the posts about mixed metal loops are a bit dramatic. I don't think mixed metal loops are needed or desirable nowadays as almost anything is available in all copper or Delrin versions.

Yet a properly designed and maintained mixed metal loop will not cause any issues, my longest serving loop was in mint condition after 4 years of service with G11 as well as a system that ran for 2 year with G12+. Even without additive and protective coating the aluminum parts of the unit appear rather solid to me, 1 mm+ will will take some time go from cosmetic to structural impact.

Are Aquaduct buyers capable of properly maintaining the system? That is where i see the problem.

This worries me.

1. its a phosphate based liquid which is recomended to avoid in water cooling if i remember correctly.

2. The additional uses of the chemical even tho its small:
"Phosphonates derived from phosphorous (phosphonic) acid are employed in the applications of scale Inhibition, sequestration, dispersion and corrosion inhibition in addition to the main applications of agricultural chemicals such as fertilizers, pesticides, and soil conditioners."

Thats taken directly from the link.


I think redline is better then that stuff:
http://www.redlineoil.com/msds/17.pdf

[Aqua-Pc's]

ummmm.... i prefer aquapc answer my three questions i posted at top. If they have nothing to hide, they would be more then willing to answer it, like gabe did with the apogeeGTX.

Just to make this 100% crystal clear ill spell this out in bold to avoid further confusion.

Aqua-Pc's = UK Reseller/Distributor of most water cooling parts including Aqua-computer (see below for this) as well as all of the other big name brands EK, Swiftech etc etc etc. I Sell Water-Cooling

Aqua-Computer = German based water-cooling manufacturer making low flow European water-cooling like the Cuplex Di and the Aquaduct. They Make Water-Cooling

If you have questions about the manufacturing process used in Aqua-Computers product why not ask them direct, e-mail Stefan May info@aqua-computer.de and he will gladly answer all your questions.

[Top Nurse]

This worries me.

1. its a phosphate based liquid which is recomended to avoid in water cooling if i remember correctly.

2. The additional uses of the chemical even tho its small:
"Phosphonates derived from phosphorous (phosphonic) acid are employed in the applications of scale Inhibition, sequestration, dispersion and corrosion inhibition in addition to the main applications of agricultural chemicals such as fertilizers, pesticides, and soil conditioners."

Thats taken directly from the link.

You must have missed this part:

"Phosphonates offer a wide range of sequestrants to control metal ions in aqueous systems. By forming stable water soluble complexes with multivalent metal ions, phosphonates prevent undesired interaction by blocking normal reactivity of metal ions." IOW, it prevents corrosion in a system that has multiple metals in it.

I think you should look up the words you don't understand. Your link for Water Wetter shows a miscible rating of 25 C. That means the stuff falls out of solution below 25 C. That means at under 25 C the Water Wetter chemical is floating around in your loop at full strength. No wonder that was dangerous to use in water cooling systems.

Young padawan I know it is hard to let go of what you thought works best in an automotive cooling system, but this ain't an automotive cooling system.