Laing DDC (Swiftech MCP350/355) Names & Info

[hoax]

best of luck on the future projects with them Petra!

[Petra]

Okay, I just received two defective DDC-2's from customers... both are having intermittent starting problems and are abnormally loud. Interestingly, however, they seem to be suffering from different problems.

The first one, sent in by smopoim86, has a severely warped impeller (sorry, no pics), causing the impeller to grind against the ceiling of the impeller housing. Sometimes, depending on where the impeller stopped previously and how much voltage you're giving the pump at startup, the pump fails to start. Other times, the pump starts but makes an incredible racket (clacking, buzzing, vibrating, etc.).

The second pump, sent in by a different customer, almost always fails to start. Upon inspection, I found that the impeller was fine but there was some scorching and contact discoloration on the pump's PCB (below). Additionally, the few times I did manage to get this pump to start, it wasn't performing as it should (its head pressure was maxing out at about 6psig, instead of the usual 8.5pisg).



Having found this, I decided to inspect a little further and fond the following:



If I have time next week, I'll take a closer look at it and see if I can come up with some useful information for your guys.

[eva2000]

ouch that looks nasty !

[ChongL]

I know a lot of people are experiencing problems...but is the rate of failure alarming? maybe i'll run my DDC w/top in series with my 50z just for safety

[NickS]

IDK how well that would work but I'd run just the 50z. I bet you won't see any decrease in temps more than 1*C, plus 1*C higher temps > $1k of dead hardware.

I never reccomend DDC's, but that's just me. Some people swear by them. I think they're junk.

[Petra]

I know a lot of people are experiencing problems...but is the rate of failure alarming? maybe i'll run my DDC w/top in series with my 50z just for safety

So far, we've had a total of 3 defective DDC's out of the 60 or so we've sold since the release of our DDC tops (we've only been carrying them for about that long).

[septim]

looks like manufacturing defects to me...
too hot soldering iron or whatever they used can cause that pcb discoloration...
also with the rewinding for the magnetic contacts, the insulation varnish(the whitish film if i am not mistaken) looks lacking all around...

[Patriote]

That is kinda scary... Ill have my DDC-2 Running in a week or 2 i hope everythings will be alright.

[Petra]

looks like manufacturing defects to me...
too hot soldering iron or whatever they used can cause that pcb discoloration...

It's likely not so much a manufacturing defect as either a defective batch of components (kinda like that plague of bad caps on mobos a few years ago) or, less likely, a flaw in design. It's obvious that the discoloration was caused by that chip when it 'released the magic smoke' (aka fried, burnt up, melted, blew, etc.).

[SiGfever]

I have emailed and PM'd Robert Korzuch at Laing about the issues and concerns on this forum. Even though he stated in our original emails that he would be glad to answer any questions if we PM'd him my last email and PM generated no response.

Quote:

"John:

I appreciate your support for Laing products. I have registered on the XtremeSystems Forums and I will try and answer any questions the community has. My username on their forum is “rkorzuch” and if anyone wants to PM me I will try and answer as soon as possible.

Best Regards,

Robert Korzuch
Laing Thermotech, Inc.
830 Bay Blvd., Suite 101
Chula Vista, CA 91911"

[JoeBar]

Don't jump on conclusions very easy. As Petra stated out of the 60 sold only 2 had probs.
I'm running one of the first DDC-2 without probs for 6 months now and consider also that it has only worked with asus intel m/b's with the double restart prob.

[nealh]

So far, we've had a total of 3 defective DDC's out of the 60 or so we've sold since the release of our DDC tops (we've only been carrying them for about that long).

thats 5%

[krueml_]

Here are some pics of the Watercool DDC Tank PRO..












It's not identical to the Alphacool Tank....

[SiGfever]

Don't jump on conclusions very easy. As Petra stated out of the 60 sold only 2 had probs.
I'm running one of the first DDC-2 without probs for 6 months now and consider also that it has only worked with asus intel m/b's with the double restart prob.

I have faith that Laing will address the issues and correct the problems. My DDC-2 has been very good and the performance increase over my D5 is noticeable. I wonder how many of the failures can be attributed to over-heating?

[qwerty69]

I can't say that heat is causing problems but the pump does gets hot(30c ambient here) so do consider sticking some heat sinks on the back. I got 4 larger rams sinks on one pump and 8 smaller sinks on another. Runs flawlessly.

Also if your pump is acting up, try sending an email to Laing. I did and they offered to make a replacement if i send the non starting pump back to them for evaluation.

Believe it or not, after the email contact with Laing, my non starting pump have no problems starting up ever since!

[JoeBar]

Here are some pics of the Watercool DDC Tank PRO..

It's not identical to the Alphacool Tank....

I have a feeling that it will also lacks performmance and cause the same probs...

[JoeBar]

I have faith that Laing will address the issues and correct the problems. My DDC-2 has been very good and the performance increase over my D5 is noticeable. I wonder how many of the failures can be attributed to over-heating?

Laing backs up their pumps with a very good warranty and as i've heard they are more than willing to help.

[shifty803]

After a day of running my new set-up, the lines were sparsely coated with a very fine silver/metallic dust. I cleaned everything out properly, so there is no way it all came from the radiator or something. The two suggestions I have heard were that maybe the nickel plating from my barbs is flaking off, or maybe the pump is grinding. I took apart my whole system today and carefully checked all the barbs, but can't see any sort of flaking. So that leaves my mcp355. From inspection of the top of the impeller, I see nothing wrong, but could it be possible grinding is taking place internally? And if so, is there any way you can think of to verify whether it is the pump or not? Thanks.

[septim]

hmm is your pump noisy? if noisy, grinding noise then its the pump...

if not check other parts, some dirt maybe had from the recesses of the radiator or waterblocks.

btw did you take a picture of these silver metallic like particles?

[Makubex_GB]

Don't jump on conclusions very easy. As Petra stated out of the 60 sold only 2 had probs.

Not 2, but 3. 3 out of 60.

[serialk11r]

3 out of 60 is pretty bad, 5%, so every 20 theres a bad one. I am planning to get watercooling pretty soon (somehow...) and i was considering this pump because it has really high pressure, which is good. Now 3 broken out of a batch of 60 sounds scary to me, do you still think its worth buying? Also, are the more powerful ddc pumps loud, as in more audible than a not-too-good fan? Oh and, do they get very hot, like so that they break if theres like nothing cooling it?

[barzi]

Hi, i can get a cheap Laing DCC pump. I think this is a 10W version, bu i don't know the top:



And what is better for me, a mcp600/mcp650 or that pump?
My setup:

MCW6002
MCW50
BIXII
Danger Den 5 1/4" Bay Reservoir

These aren't high pressure blocks, like the storm. So what pump do i need(of those 2)?

[andersson.j]

Black impeller = 10w DDC. The top is from alphacool or watercool, they look almost identical. It's a pretty good top, performs about on par with Petras as you can see in Petras test.

Lee tested a top inlet modified 10w DDC over at SystemCooling.com which should perform about the same as the DDC in your picture.
Loop #1 has very little restriction:
Pump > 18” Tube > Black Ice Extreme Radiator > 12” Tube > Maze3 Waterblock > 18” Tube > Graduated 5 gallon bottle
Under these conditions it performed slightly worse than MCP650.

Loop #2 is more restrictive:
Pump > 18” Tube > 6x6x2” heater core > 12” Tube > DangerDen RBX Waterblock (#1 Flow plate) > (2) 4” tubes to Y fitting > 18” Tube > Graduated 5 gallon bottle
Under these conditions it performed about the same as MCP650 and not far from MCP655:


Since the DDC is a lot quieter, a lot smaller and dumps a lot less heat I would choose a DDC with top inlet over MCP600/650/655 any day of the week.

[barzi]

For me too? Because i haven't restrictive blocks.
And is it hard to modify the top(guide or something?)? Because i see it is lots of difference.

[andersson.j]

For me too? Because i haven't restrictive blocks.
And is it hard to modify the top(guide or something?)? Because i see it is lots of difference.

Yes I'd choose a DDC with top mounted inlet if I were you.
The purpose of modifying a DDC top is to move the inlet from the front to the top to increase flow. You don't need to modify the top since your pump has an aftermarket top which already has a top mounted inlet.