Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 75

Thread: My Review: Head-On Apply Directly to the forehead

  1. #1
    Xtreme Addict
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Arizona State
    Posts
    1,099

    My Review: Head-On Apply Directly to the forehead

    Ok so ive seen those stupidly annoying commercials on TV advertising HEADON apply directly to the forehead. I didnt know what it was though so while i was bumming aroudn at walgreens i stumbled upon it and found out it was headache relief. So i bought one, it was like 2 bucks or something, for a day when i have a headache. Today i have a headache. So i apply head-on to my forehead and after about 15 minutes, NOW, my head is no longer pounding , or at least i cant tell, because there is a distinct BURING SENSATION on my forehead. Its soo annoying. Im gonna give head-on a 1/10 on my scale. Its awful my head is burnign, dont use it.

    Discuss
    Q6700
    MSI P35
    8GB OCZ
    2xHD 2900 XT
    PCP&C 1kw

  2. #2
    Love and Peace!
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    hiding somewhere!
    Posts
    3,675
    perhaps the burning distracts you from the headache, making you forget about it?
    Got a fan over those memory sticks? No? Well get to it before you kill them

  3. #3
    Xtreme Bandwith Whore
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Orange County, CA
    Posts
    2,361
    Well, you can always just get kicked in the balls, save the $2 and go lay down.

  4. #4
    Git-R-Done
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Toronto, Canada
    Posts
    1,305
    Don't tell Vulger that, it's his avatar :p

  5. #5
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    116
    Quote Originally Posted by Haltech
    Well, you can always just get kicked in the balls, save the $2 and go lay down.
    lol

  6. #6
    Xtreme Addict
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Dallas, TX USA
    Posts
    1,381
    lol, changed my avatar yesterday
    Athlon XP-M 2500+ 0343MPMW The King is Dead!
    Phenom II X6 1090T 1025GPMW Long Live the King!

    -------------------------------------------
    I'm from the church of the operating room

  7. #7
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    19
    I h8 those damn commercials. I turned my tv on this week and it came on like 5x in 2 hours. No wonder I don't watch tv anymore.

  8. #8
    Live Long And Overclock
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    14,058
    Most likely all it does is numb the front of the forehead where the headaches are most felt. So in a sense the headache is still there, you just can't feel it.

    Stick with Advil/Tylenol for this.

    Perkam

  9. #9
    Xtreme Gentoo User
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    England
    Posts
    2,468
    Quote Originally Posted by perkam
    Most likely all it does is numb the front of the forehead where the headaches are most felt. So in a sense the headache is still there, you just can't feel it.

    Stick with Advil/Tylenol for this.

    Perkam
    Sorry for the following rant, but I'm in a bit of a scientific mood right now. Tylenol (aka Acetaminophen) is pretty nasty, toxic stuff. One of it's metabolites is N-acetyl-p-benzoquinoneimine, which is broken down by glutathione, however Acetaminophen itself is also broken by the same enzyme, which can cause a bit of a cascade effect. The APAP saturates the glutathione, which releases the NAPB into the liver, leaving little to no glutathione left to deactivate the NAPB, leaving it free to attack the cells of the liver. Nasty stuff. Advil (aka Ibuprofen) is alot safer to the liver, however, being an acid, it's not particularily friendly to the GI tract or the kidneys, but that said it's alot better for you than APAP. I'm assuming this head-on stuff contains Ibuprofen, Diclofenac or another NSAID. Most NSAID's are acidic, hence applying them to the skin is bound to cause a little burning or irritation. My $0.02.

  10. #10
    Beefy!
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    British Columbia, Canada
    Posts
    631
    Head on, apply directly to the forehead! Head on, apply directly to the forehead! Head on, apply directly to the forehead!

    Head on, apply directly to the forehead! Head on, apply directly to the forehead! Head on, apply directly to the forehead!

    Head on, apply directly to the forehead! Head on, apply directly to the forehead! Head on, apply directly to the forehead!

  11. #11
    Xtreme Recruit
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    right here...
    Posts
    4
    good god im so glad we don't get that comercial here...

  12. #12
    Xtreme Member
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Indiana, US
    Posts
    398
    Lol. That commercial is just awful. It genuinely makes me cringe every time it comes on. Last time I saw it, I went into a deep depression for weeks and tried to kill myself. Yes, it really is that bad.

    Abit KN8
    AMD Athlon 64 X2 4400+ @ 2.6GHz
    Thermalright SI-97A w/56 CFM Panaflow
    2GB G.Skill DDR500 GBHZs 0603
    eVGA GeForce 7600GT w/Zalman VF700-CU
    Sound Blaster Audigy 2 ZS
    160GB Western Digital 160GB Hard Drive
    500W XG Vortec Ver. 2 PSU
    NZXT Zero/Logitech MX518, X-530/Saitek Eclipse

    CPU soon to be under WATER (this time I mean it)


    Planned '07 upgrades: 19" widescreen LCD, mid-range DX10 card

  13. #13
    Xtreme Addict
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    1,023
    Quote Originally Posted by masterofpuppets
    Sorry for the following rant, but I'm in a bit of a scientific mood right now. Tylenol (aka Acetaminophen) is pretty nasty, toxic stuff. One of it's metabolites is N-acetyl-p-benzoquinoneimine, which is broken down by glutathione, however Acetaminophen itself is also broken by the same enzyme, which can cause a bit of a cascade effect. The APAP saturates the glutathione, which releases the NAPB into the liver, leaving little to no glutathione left to deactivate the NAPB, leaving it free to attack the cells of the liver. Nasty stuff. Advil (aka Ibuprofen) is alot safer to the liver, however, being an acid, it's not particularily friendly to the GI tract or the kidneys, but that said it's alot better for you than APAP. I'm assuming this head-on stuff contains Ibuprofen, Diclofenac or another NSAID. Most NSAID's are acidic, hence applying them to the skin is bound to cause a little burning or irritation. My $0.02.

    Am I the only other one who understood this? Nobody even bothers to comment on the great writeup!

    It quenched my taste for knowledge it did.

    And about that Head-On stuff, It looked to gimmicky for me. Sure enough, its just snake oil.

  14. #14
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    24
    Quote Originally Posted by masterofpuppets
    Sorry for the following rant, but I'm in a bit of a scientific mood right now. Tylenol (aka Acetaminophen) is pretty nasty, toxic stuff. One of it's metabolites is N-acetyl-p-benzoquinoneimine, which is broken down by glutathione, however Acetaminophen itself is also broken by the same enzyme, which can cause a bit of a cascade effect. The APAP saturates the glutathione, which releases the NAPB into the liver, leaving little to no glutathione left to deactivate the NAPB, leaving it free to attack the cells of the liver. Nasty stuff. Advil (aka Ibuprofen) is alot safer to the liver, however, being an acid, it's not particularily friendly to the GI tract or the kidneys, but that said it's alot better for you than APAP. I'm assuming this head-on stuff contains Ibuprofen, Diclofenac or another NSAID. Most NSAID's are acidic, hence applying them to the skin is bound to cause a little burning or irritation. My $0.02.
    As long as not over 4g of acetaminophen is consumed daily for long periods. Then again, that's a lot of pain, and anyone having that much pain usually (not always) seeks medical help.

    It's not the pH acidity from nsaids that irritates the GI, but the inhibition of mucus production and prostagladin E that breaks down the mucosal and bicarb protective barrier. Lemons and citruses have a lot lower acidity than nsaids and are consumed daily, yet do not usually irritate the GI tract after consumption by a healthy person.

    Headon as a topical nsaid? Too lazy now to search, but haven't run across too many otc topical nsaids. Doesn't sound like an effective way to limit vasospasms.
    Last edited by wrc06; 07-28-2006 at 06:12 PM.

  15. #15
    Xtreme Addict
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Pleasant Hill, MO
    Posts
    1,211
    Headaches in Missouri are most often caused by simple dehydration.

    Ryan
    "Political Correctness is a doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical, liberal minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end."

    Abit IP35 Pro
    Intel Core 2 Quad 6600 @ 3200 w/ Tuniq Tower
    2x2gb A-Data DDR2 800
    AMD/ATi HD 4870

  16. #16
    I am Xtreme
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Upstate, NY
    Posts
    5,425
    Quote Originally Posted by Just Some Dude
    I h8 those damn commercials. I turned my tv on this week and it came on like 5x in 2 hours. No wonder I don't watch tv anymore.
    LOL, I hate the way they repeat "Head On, apply directly to the forehead" three times over.
    Core i3-550 Clarkdale @ 4.2GHz, 1.36v (Corsair A50 HS/F) LinX Stable
    MSI H55-GD65 Motherboard
    G.Skill 4GBRL DDR3-1600 @ 1755, CL9, 1.55v
    Sapphire Radeon 5750 1GB
    Samsung F4 320GB - WD Green 1TB
    Xigmatek Utgard Case - Corsair VX550

  17. #17
    Xtreme Member
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Tampa, FL
    Posts
    387
    I don't own cable, and it appears I don't watch enough TV. I have never heard of this product, or ever seen a commercial for it.....


  18. #18
    Xtreme Enthusiast
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Littleton, Colorado
    Posts
    740


    HEAD-ON Apply directly to the forehead!

    HEAD-ON Apply directly to the forehead!

    HEAD-ON Apply directly to the forehead!

    HEAD-ON Apply directly to the forehead!

    HEAD-ON Apply directly to the forehead!

    HEAD-ON Apply directly to the forehead!

    HEAD-ON Apply directly to the forehead!

    HEAD-ON Apply directly to the forehead!

    HEAD-ON Apply directly to the forehead!

    HEAD-ON Apply directly to the forehead!

    HEAD-ON Apply directly to the forehead!

    HEAD-ON Apply directly to the forehead!

    HEAD-ON Apply directly to the forehead!

    HEAD-ON Apply directly to the forehead!

    HEAD-ON Apply directly to the forehead!

    HEAD-ON Apply directly to the forehead!

    HEAD-ON Apply directly to the forehead!

    HEAD-ON Apply directly to the forehead!

    HEAD-ON Apply directly to the forehead!

    HEAD-ON Apply directly to the forehead!

    HEAD-ON Apply directly to the forehead!

    HEAD-ON Apply directly to the forehead!

    HEAD-ON Apply directly to the forehead!

    HEAD-ON Apply directly to the forehead!

    HEAD-ON Apply directly to the forehead!

    HEAD-ON Apply directly to the forehead!

    HEAD-ON Apply directly to the forehead!

    HEAD-ON Apply directly to the forehead!

    HEAD-ON Apply directly to the forehead!

    HEAD-ON Apply directly to the forehead!

    HEAD-ON Apply directly to the forehead!

    HEAD-ON Apply directly to the forehead!

    HEAD-ON Apply directly to the forehead!

    HEAD-ON Apply directly to the forehead!

    HEAD-ON Apply directly to the forehead!

    HEAD-ON Apply directly to the forehead!

    HEAD-ON Apply directly to the forehead!

    HEAD-ON Apply directly to the forehead!

    HEAD-ON Apply directly to the forehead!

    HEAD-ON Apply directly to the forehead!

    HEAD-ON Apply directly to the forehead!

    HEAD-ON Apply directly to the forehead!

    HEAD-ON Apply directly to the forehead!

    HEAD-ON Apply directly to the forehead!

    HEAD-ON Apply directly to the forehead!

    HEAD-ON Apply directly to the forehead!

    HEAD-ON Apply directly to the forehead!

    HEAD-ON Apply directly to the forehead!

    HEAD-ON Apply directly to the forehead!

    HEAD-ON Apply directly to the forehead!

    HEAD-ON Apply directly to the forehead!

    HEAD-ON Apply directly to the forehead!

    HEAD-ON Apply directly to the forehead!

    HEAD-ON Apply directly to the forehead!

    HEAD-ON Apply directly to the forehead!

    HEAD-ON Apply directly to the forehead!

    HEAD-ON Apply directly to the forehead!

    HEAD-ON Apply directly to the forehead!

    HEAD-ON Apply directly to the forehead!

    HEAD-ON Apply directly to the forehead!

    HEAD-ON Apply directly to the forehead!

    HEAD-ON Apply directly to the forehead!

    HEAD-ON Apply directly to the forehead!

    HEAD-ON Apply directly to the forehead!



    Heatware

    Main
    intel i5 3570k @ 4+ GHz | Gigabyte Z77X-UD5H Rev 1.1 |Crucial Ballistix Tactical VLP 2x8GB DDR3-1600
    intel 335 240GB SSD | WD Black 640GB HDD
    Sapphire AMD 7870XT 2GB w-Boost (Tahiti LE)
    Creative X-Fi Titanium PCI-e

    HTPC
    AMD FX 6300 Vishera | ASRock 970 Extreme 3 | Kingston HyperX Black 2x4GB DDR3-1600
    intel 320 120GB SSD | Seagate Barracuda 640GB HDD
    AMD Visiontek HD7850 2GB
    Dlink DWA-556 Wireless N Adapter

    Tablet
    Lenovo IdeaTab A2109 - Running rooted J-Bean & ADW

  19. #19
    Xtreme Gentoo User
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    England
    Posts
    2,468
    Quote Originally Posted by wrc06
    As long as not over 4g of acetaminophen is consumed daily for long periods. Then again, that's a lot of pain, and anyone having that much pain usually (not always) seeks medical help.

    It's not the pH acidity from nsaids that irritates the GI, but the inhibition of mucus production and prostagladin E that breaks down the mucosal and bicarb protective barrier. Lemons and citruses have a lot lower acidity than nsaids and are consumed daily, yet do not usually irritate the GI tract after consumption by a healthy person.

    Headon as a topical nsaid? Too lazy now to search, but haven't run across too many otc topical nsaids. Doesn't sound like an effective way to limit vasospasms.
    I'm not sure if Head-On is an NSAID, but I've used a few topical NSAID's in the past and they've caused slightly irritation. But I've definately read somewhere that consuming the recommended amount of APAP a day over 1-2 weeks causes abnormal liver function in blood work. http://www.newstarget.com/019555.html The inhibited mucus production makes sense, since NSAID's are contraindicted for people with asthma.

    FOLLOW THESE INSTRUCTIONS AT YOUR OWN RISK, IF YOU MESS IT UP AND END UP WITH LIVER DAMAGE, IT IS YOUR OWN FAULT.
    However, I'd still take an opioid over an NSAID or APAP in any situation. I usually take small amounts (30-60mg) of Codeine Phosphate for various pains. It's pretty easy to get ahold of, and tiny amounts (8mg) are availible over the counter, at least in Europe. They are usually coupled with an NSAID (most commonly Ibuprofen), Aspirin, or APAP. All 3 secondary substances are easily seperated from the Codeine with a cold water extraction. Grind the pills up into a fine powder, add the powder to a small amount (half a shot or so) of warm water (from the hot tap, not boiling water as this breaks down the Codeine Phosphate) to help the powder dissolve. Stir every now and then until all of it has dissolved. Then stick this in the refrigerator and cool (5C recommended if your source contains APAP or Ibuprofen). Once cooled appropriately, you should have a chalky liquid on the top, and a thick white sludge at the bottom. The sludge is your secondary substance. Discard of the sludge by filtering the liquid through a t-shirt, coffee filter, or even better, a micron filter, until there is little to no sludge left. Hold your nose, get something sweet to chase it with, and down the remaining liquid. Codeine Phosphate is very bitter, so it is neccessary to chase it with something sweet to overpower the aftertaste.

    This process works because APAP and Ibuprofen are NOT soluble at lower temperatures, however Codeine Phosphate is fully soluble at lower temperatures. It's a very simple process. It may seem like alot of effort, but it's not too difficult to make many batches of the substance to use when needed. It stores fine in the refrigerator and is quite stable at the temperatures the refrigerator maintains. Side effects of Codeine Phosphate may include constipation, vasodilation, bradycardia, increased cranial pressure (as an effect of the vasodilation I presume), drowsiness (at higher doses), nausea, respiratory depression and lowered blood pressure. Codeine is converted to Morphine in the liver by CYP3A4, and is catalysed by CYP2D6, so if you are taking an inhibitor to any of these enzymes, the effects of the substance will be greatly reduced. Inhibitors include any of the SSRI-class anti-depressants (Fluoxetine, Paroxetine, Citalopram, Escitalopram, and to a much lesser extent, Sertraline). The analgesia is pretty powerful for an over-the-counter substance, and can't be matched by an NSAID, let alone APAP. Just offering my "alternative" to the traditional OTC analgesics

    If the above breaks any rules, please edit it out mods.

    EDIT: And for your enjoyment.. http://youtube.com/watch?v=2-hcF8jD5qM
    Last edited by masterofpuppets; 07-29-2006 at 04:05 AM.

  20. #20
    Xtreme Enthusiast
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Littleton, Colorado
    Posts
    740
    Heatware

    Main
    intel i5 3570k @ 4+ GHz | Gigabyte Z77X-UD5H Rev 1.1 |Crucial Ballistix Tactical VLP 2x8GB DDR3-1600
    intel 335 240GB SSD | WD Black 640GB HDD
    Sapphire AMD 7870XT 2GB w-Boost (Tahiti LE)
    Creative X-Fi Titanium PCI-e

    HTPC
    AMD FX 6300 Vishera | ASRock 970 Extreme 3 | Kingston HyperX Black 2x4GB DDR3-1600
    intel 320 120GB SSD | Seagate Barracuda 640GB HDD
    AMD Visiontek HD7850 2GB
    Dlink DWA-556 Wireless N Adapter

    Tablet
    Lenovo IdeaTab A2109 - Running rooted J-Bean & ADW

  21. #21
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    24
    Quote Originally Posted by masterofpuppets
    I'm not sure if Head-On is an NSAID, but I've used a few topical NSAID's in the past and they've caused slightly irritation. But I've definately read somewhere that consuming the recommended amount of APAP a day over 1-2 weeks causes abnormal liver function in blood work. http://www.newstarget.com/019555.html The inhibited mucus production makes sense, since NSAID's are contraindicted for people with asthma.

    FOLLOW THESE INSTRUCTIONS AT YOUR OWN RISK, IF YOU MESS IT UP AND END UP WITH LIVER DAMAGE, IT IS YOUR OWN FAULT.
    However, I'd still take an opioid over an NSAID or APAP in any situation. I usually take small amounts (30-60mg) of Codeine Phosphate for various pains. It's pretty easy to get ahold of, and tiny amounts (8mg) are availible over the counter, at least in Europe. They are usually coupled with an NSAID (most commonly Ibuprofen), Aspirin, or APAP. All 3 secondary substances are easily seperated from the Codeine with a cold water extraction. Grind the pills up into a fine powder, add the powder to a small amount (half a shot or so) of warm water (from the hot tap, not boiling water as this breaks down the Codeine Phosphate) to help the powder dissolve. Stir every now and then until all of it has dissolved. Then stick this in the refrigerator and cool (5C recommended if your source contains APAP or Ibuprofen). Once cooled appropriately, you should have a chalky liquid on the top, and a thick white sludge at the bottom. The sludge is your secondary substance. Discard of the sludge by filtering the liquid through a t-shirt, coffee filter, or even better, a micron filter, until there is little to no sludge left. Hold your nose, get something sweet to chase it with, and down the remaining liquid. Codeine Phosphate is very bitter, so it is neccessary to chase it with something sweet to overpower the aftertaste.

    This process works because APAP and Ibuprofen are NOT soluble at lower temperatures, however Codeine Phosphate is fully soluble at lower temperatures. It's a very simple process. It may seem like alot of effort, but it's not too difficult to make many batches of the substance to use when needed. It stores fine in the refrigerator and is quite stable at the temperatures the refrigerator maintains. Side effects of Codeine Phosphate may include constipation, vasodilation, bradycardia, increased cranial pressure (as an effect of the vasodilation I presume), drowsiness (at higher doses), nausea, respiratory depression and lowered blood pressure. Codeine is converted to Morphine in the liver by CYP3A4, and is catalysed by CYP2D6, so if you are taking an inhibitor to any of these enzymes, the effects of the substance will be greatly reduced. Inhibitors include any of the SSRI-class anti-depressants (Fluoxetine, Paroxetine, Citalopram, Escitalopram, and to a much lesser extent, Sertraline). The analgesia is pretty powerful for an over-the-counter substance, and can't be matched by an NSAID, let alone APAP. Just offering my "alternative" to the traditional OTC analgesics

    If the above breaks any rules, please edit it out mods.

    EDIT: And for your enjoyment.. http://youtube.com/watch?v=2-hcF8jD5qM
    Nsaids contraindicated with asthma? How so? How would nsaid compromise bronchospasms? Again the transdermal admin, not a great route of drug delivery.

    Codeine for a headache is too advanced. What about triptans? Why not try those first before proceeding to opioids? Prescribing opioids too often and unnecessarily is just asking for trouble.

  22. #22
    Xtreme Gentoo User
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    England
    Posts
    2,468
    Quote Originally Posted by wrc06
    Nsaids contraindicated with asthma? How so? How would nsaid compromise bronchospasms? Again the transdermal admin, not a great route of drug delivery.

    Codeine for a headache is too advanced. What about triptans? Why not try those first before proceeding to opioids? Prescribing opioids too often and unnecessarily is just asking for trouble.
    It clearly says on my box of Nurofen (Ibuprofen), that it is contraindicted in people with asthma.. I take Codeine for headaches and it works pretty damn well.

  23. #23
    Xtreme Cruncher
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Emmaus, PA, US
    Posts
    1,274
    i never even saw the commercial but thought that was funny

    |Rig: AMD Athlon64 X2 6000+ Windsor|6gb DDR2 800|Dual 250gb Western Digital RAID0|8600GT|

    (12:16:17 AM) OC3D NoL: NOL EAT ANNOYING NOOBIE
    (12:16:19 AM) OC3D NoL: RAWRRRR

  24. #24
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    24
    Quote Originally Posted by masterofpuppets
    It clearly says on my box of Nurofen (Ibuprofen), that it is contraindicted in people with asthma.. I take Codeine for headaches and it works pretty damn well.
    ...if they have had previous experiences of asthma exasperation. Not a contraindication on any schedule that I'm aware.

    Sure, codeine will work for pain (generally, this is it's use). Never said it wouldn't. However, too advanced for headaches. Trial of triptans perhaps. Then schedule esr, rf, ana, or head ct if resistant to rule out brain lesions, icp, etc. Progress to other pain management if s/sx continue.

  25. #25
    Admin
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Ann Arbor, MI
    Posts
    12,338
    All nsaids can worsen the degree of asthma (really, on such a small scale though....you'd be hard pressed to ....opiods can assist asthma treatment.

    Codeine is absolutely not found OTC in the USA...we're left with Sodium Naproxen (Aleve....another nsaid), Ibuprofen and Acetaminophen.

    Because nsaids and APAP do work so different (both effect and side-effect) they can be taken together for really bad pain (but again, if it's that bad that you need to keep up a daily 2.4G Ibuprofen and 4G Acetaminophen regimen, see a doctor). Staying at or below the recommended dosage with acetaminophen is safe and can be sustained with healthy liver function for >12 years. Ibuprofen really doesn't do DAMAGE until you sustain a little more than double the recommended dose. If not taken with food (you'll get fat trying to keep up with your Ibuprofen intake), it may cause irritation or discomfort.

    Regarding HeadOn, it's main active ingredient is potassium dichromate, which is used in film developing and should, under no condtion, come in contact with the skin. That's the burn.

    EDIT: masterofpuppets, I really don't know if I can keep that opiod separation guide up.....thinking about it
    Last edited by Vapor; 07-29-2006 at 09:07 AM.

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •