The Test: Enermax Liberty 500w powering WHAT?

[NickS]

I'd like to take this chance to explain to you all clearly and simply, you over rate computer hardware power consumption and you all need to learn a thing or two. Especially you, perkam .

This test will include..

• Detailed specifications of the rig..
• Power consumption @ wall..
• 12v, 5v Rail Readings..
• Overclocking, benchmarking..
• ..and more

The specs of the rigs are..

Intel Core 2 Xtreme QX6700
ASUS P5B Deluxe WiFi/Ap
2x1GB G.Skill 2GBGA (D9GMH) and 2x512MB Corsair 8000ul (D9 Fatbody's; for benching.)
eVGA 8800GTX 768MB; vmodded.
Creative Labs X-Fi XtremeMusic
Many-a-fan
AquaXtreme 50z Pump
Seagate Barracuda 7200.10
NEC SATA DVD Burner

Thanks to fhpchris for generously letting me borrow the CPU, video card, and Corsair RAM.

I will be doing some overclocking, hard benchmarking, etc. The most I've drawn so far from this PSU is 493w from the outlet without wincing. Testing will continue tonight, pictures will be taken, and most of the results if not all will be up by tomorrow. Please stay tuned, for the sake of all future PSU recommendations!

[Nazu]

493w and you haven't calculated it with the effiency? I agree with you that most users here at XS recommend psu's that are WAY overkill for the rigs that the people use and they can and could manage with a lot less wattage psu's (430w-500w). With bigger wattage psu's the effiency at low load levels are usually not so good as with the smaller wattage version of the same psu.

[NickS]

Yup yup. Draws 402w from the wall @ 3.3Ghz 1.392v dual orthos small FFT in Vista Ultimate

[YanBooth]

The advantage of a large power supply is future protection, if you look at the trend of graphics cards and CPU's over the last two years, power consumption has gone up, and investing in a quality unit, such as a PC Power and Cooling PSU will ensure that you can use it down the road.
Also, my next rig will have at least two pumps, and 20-30 fan's, so for the real enthusiast out there, too much for now, and enough for later is not a bad ideology to follow.
What do you think?
-Yan

[YanBooth]

PS- What are other quality PSU makers?

[NickS]

For most people, quad core + gtx is the max they'd have.

You guys must remember, ATi vowed that R600 will be the most powerful (power wise) card they're ever going to make, and future gens will be much more efficient. CPU's are more efficient now too. 45nm quads should draw what 65nm duallies do.

[perkam]

Should be interesting...though I've changed my views on "few good 500W PSUs"...not that many people have actually gotten the logic behind my firm approach towards minimum power limits.

If you're going to spend $3000 on a computer, skimping on the powersupply will have consequences, and unfortunately, those who come with the intention to prove that low wattage PSUs can power high end rigs indirectly give credence to those who find it weird/impractical to buy more than a 500w PSU for a quad core + SLI/Crossfire, thinking "it'll be enough".

Perkam

[serialk11r]

Considering efficiency and all, the computer is drawing no more than 420W from the PSU...
And companies have stated that they will try to increase efficiency. There is a good reason
So it IS safe to say a 650 +/- watt supply is enough for qx6700 and 8800gtx sli, and it IS safe to say a 500 is good enough for most other setups...
Here, Nick's system is not close to maxing the PSU out. Hence 500W IS enough.

[NickS]

QX6700 @ 3.8GHz and a 8800GTX @ 650/1100 and I was drawing ~400w in 05.

Man, people really overestimate their power usage.

[cadaveca]

get a meter and check what happens when the 12v gets loaded.

The issue with low-power PSU's is that the spikes from idle to load can be enough to harm components over time. Never mind that once the capacitor starts holding some juice, it deteriorates. This means "ripple" will increase, as well as those idle-load spikes.

higher Wattage PSU's typically have larger amps available, and have regulation that spreads the load. As your system gets closer to the max a line can handle(12v most often), the larger the dips between idle and load, and the more other voltages provided by the psu can vary as well, thereby putting other components at risk.

Although components are designed to deal with this, they cannot withstand major transients for long. It's this that concerns me the most...and why I suggest highly-overrating a psu. Never mind psu's are more efficient the further they are from max load. Please keep in mind that a 1000w PSU does not draw 1000w...it is jsut capable of doing so if needed, and only draw the power the sytem consumes, plus the losses from switching power from AC to DC. Over-speccing a PSu does absolutely no harm...so I fail to see why it's an issue.

[NickS]

I'll bust out my DMM later

[NickS]

Drawing 423w the 12v rail was solid @ 12.02 from 12.07 idle @ 273w.

Liberty 500w pwns.

[cadaveca]

LOL. You did not have my 620w liberty, that blew the 30a breaker I had it - and only it - plugged into. reset the breaker to watch a flameout(not supposed to happen @ all!) and had to shut off the breaker manually to prevent worse from happening.


System was A8N SLi, X1800XL, 2GB Redlines, on 80gb hdd, dvd burner. System is still up and running...only PSU was toast. So defiantely PSU at fault.

N-E way, that IS pretty good....but load up prime95, and then maybe a DX10 demo. Start "ping -t" to something local. Leave it sit for a few weeks, if it lasts that long. THEN check the idle-load characteristics.

[NickS]

LOL wow. I plan on running dual Orthos + 03 later to see if I can suck 600w from the outlet

[afireinside]

How about he plays a CD, transfers files between the HDDs, dual orthos, 3d03, ping, play back music, and run memtest?

[thunderstruck!]

Or instead of orthos, use WCG.

[virtualrain]

I think where people get confused is if you add up the peak draw of every component in your system, you would find you need over 1000W! Of course, not everything is drawing peak at once (ever).

I'm definitely interested in more testing results as I'm building a Quad-core rig with 8800GTX and would like to know the actual realistic power consumption under various typical high load scenarios.

BTW, what is a good but inexpensive meter to measure the AC power draw at the wall socket?

[Nazu]

I think where people get confused is if you add up the peak draw of every component in your system, you would find you need over 1000W! Of course, not everything is drawing peak at once (ever).

I'm definitely interested in more testing results as I'm building a Quad-core rig with 8800GTX and would like to know the actual realistic power consumption under various typical high load scenarios.

BTW, what is a good but inexpensive meter to measure the AC power draw at the wall socket?

Yep and this is what the most of the power calculators do, they measure every components peak power draw. It's sad that some people actually believe those online power calculators and based on that they buy the psu (which is almost in every case way overkill).

[Ace-a-Rue]

what is the allowable vdroop for the 12 and 5 volt rails that allow the hardware to still function at their specifications?

is 12 volt the most critical rail?

[Nazu]

what is the allowable vdroop for the 12 and 5 volt rails that allow the hardware to still function at their specifications?

is 12 volt the most critical rail?

+-5% fluctuation is allowed by the atx spec in the 3.3v, 5v and 12v rails, though I don't know which are the limits for hardware to stop functioning. For todays computers the 12v rail is the most important cos the crucial parts like cpu and videocard draw power from it.

[NickS]

So after a long night of benching, some 4GHz Pi 1M runs, tons of 3d, and more.. the PSU is alive and fine. Over the course of the night I drew about 475w peak from the outlet, with the 12v rail never dipping below 12.00v.

The most power draw I saw was Deep Freeze in 3D06, which was about 471w.

Conclusion: You can overclock the balls off your QX6700 & 8800GTX and maintain a stable, powerful computer with a good quality 500w PSU.

Two right off the top of my head would be..

Enermax Liberty 500w
Corsair HX520w

And pictures.. (click thumbs to enlarge).

[cadaveca]

Now, which 12v line was that?

[NickS]

The label says two but the PSU is one

[Cracker]

I'd be willing to bet my PCP&C Silencer 470 could handle an overclocked QX6700 and an 8800GTX with no issues.

[NickS]

Maybe. All depends on 12v Rail, etc.