Swiftech H20-220 Edge: twks/upgrades?

[jalyst]

I bought a H20-220 Edge WC kit recently to quietly cool my Core i3-530...
I'll be adding a GTX 560 Ti to the loop soon & was wondering what can be done to accommodate for & counter this.

This card obviously adds way more heat than just the core i3-530 IGP, particularly if OC'd.
Also, as soon as it's available in Q1 2012 I'll be upgrading to the Ivy Bridge equivalent of the Core i3-530.

I'd prefer not to upgrade the rad. if other "less visible" improvements can be done first.
The 240mm rad is currently mounted on the lid of my Silverstone CW-02B HTPC case

Any tips to further improve the stock kit are greatly appreciated!
Expense is not too much of an issue....

[Vinas]

That kit is actually a pretty nice starter setup. I would think that the GTX560 should be alright because your 530 isn't putting much heat into the loop. I have an i3 in my laptop and it runs very cool, and it is the desktop chip not the low power laptop model. Anyway, with medium speed fans I think your temperatures might be only slightly higher than normal water temps.

One issue I see is that the i3-530 could become a bottleneck to the GTX560, so the Ivy bridge would really "open up" the performance of that card. You won't see the full performance of the GTX560 until then IMHO.

[antiacid]

save up, don't upgrade your watercooling for such a low-end/low-heat video card. Not enough heat being generated to justify it.

[PiLsY]

I wouldnt bother upgrading any cooling until youve tried it. If you do want lower temps when its up and running then swap the fans out on the rads for GT's (maybe even push/pull GTs).

Really dont think youll have any issues though .

[Utnorris]

Unless you are going to go with a larger rad or a push/pull configuration, there isn't much you can do.

[jalyst]

save up, don't upgrade your watercooling for such a low-end/low-heat video card. Not enough heat being generated to justify it.

Low end & low heat? I wouldn't call it that. Maybe compared to a 590 it is.
But compared to the lowest end discretes, it's very high-end & high heat.

I wouldnt bother upgrading any cooling until youve tried it. If you do want lower temps when its up and running then swap the fans out on the rads for GT's (maybe even push/pull GTs).

Already using GT's in P (AP-15), but have enough for P+P, what about extra res. etc?
I really wanna improve cooling a bit more, even if it's not overly necessary.
But only if it's not a hugely complicated upgrade, that will still offer real improvements.

[Utnorris]

An extra res. in the loop?
Better joins perhaps? More metal in the loop instead of plastic tubing etc.

Might do this too
http://martinsliquidlab.org/2011/05/...e-xt/#comments

Martin quite liked the rev2.
http://martinsliquidlab.org/2011/05/...xt-revision-2/

And perhaps some mods to my pump
http://martinsliquidlab.org/2011/03/...-cooling-lift/
http://martinsliquidlab.org/2011/04/...ddc-pump-mods/

The extra res will not help, you would need to increase it to a large quanity like 50 gallons before it could make a difference.

Yes the XT is a great block and it should give you slightly better temps. If you want it grab it or one of the other various new blocks available.

Cooling your pump is not going to make a difference with water temps, but should make the pump last longer.

Modding your pump with the DIYDHNK PCB should give your pump a power boost, assuming it can be modded as some pumps cannot be. However, unless your flow is really low no, I doubt, you would not see any improvements in water temps.

[Utnorris]

The reason adding a res won't make a difference is because you are dealing with such a small amount of volume, regardless if you measure it in liters or gallons. That's why I said such a big amount. There just is not enough fluid in the system to make a difference, it will heat up too quickly.

As far as the pump goes, you would need to determine what type of flow you are getting right now. Either by using a flow meter or the old fashion way of filling a gallon jug and timing how long it takes. Unless you are getting like .5GPM you would see little improvement in temps, even if you doubled it. You might shave a degree or two off your current temps and that might be negated by the extra heat dump produced by the modded pump.

Again, your best bet is to add more rad space. Once you max that out, then you can shave a degree or two by swapping out blocks or using better pumps.

[Vapor]

The block is almost as good as it gets, the pump is almost as good as it gets, the radiator is almost as good as it gets (for its size). Depending on your heatload, more radiator and more fans may provide a noticeable improvement (if you're adding a GPU, it probably will help). The difference between your config and the best money can buy (at the 2x120mm form factor) is maybe a degree or two, the components you have are really good.

A larger reservoir will only increase the amount of time the water takes to reach equilibrium temperature and unless it's absurdly large, its effect will not be appreciable. It's not all positive either...if you run an extended moderate load, a quick cool down, then a quick high load, you'd have worse temperatures in the high load period than if you used a small reservoir because the cool down wouldn't do anything with a large reservoir. If you run any sort of permanent load, it will have zero effect. If you run a series of quick loads, it will help but in order to be noticeable, the res would need to be huge.

Just the basics are left once you select good components...have the coldest air possible enter the radiator, use a better TIM, increase airflow through the radiator, increase radiators, and increase pumping power (and an increase in pumping power beyond your MCP35X's ability almost needs more radiator to not have a negative effect).

[Conumdrum]

jaylist.

Yep, only more rad. Your system is fine, all top stuff. The rad is the most important part of the loop when it comes to heat.

I think it comes down to realizing that physics cares very little about the size of the case you have.

Like here:
http://www.overclockers.com/forums/s...d.php?t=677822

[urgrandpasdog]

Really the only place to go is more rad. If you were stuck on a 240 and you have money burning a hole in your pocket there are some other 240 rads out there that are a bit better, but changing it wouldn't be cost effective.

However, neither of those components put out all that much heat, your temps should be fine as it is.

[Utnorris]

Twks/upgrades:

*Full-cover OR GPU-core-only WB? Generally the latter's not single-slot right? Which is what I want most of the time.
_I know the typical advantages of both, just interested in other folks thoughts. I like FC for looks and everything being cooled, plus it is easier to run the tubing.
*AP-15 in P+P: w/or without shrouds, depending how practical that is Check the sticky section, there has been testing on this already.
*Flow meter/measurement tool: perhaps something just built into the loop? You can get a res with a flow meter built into it or a Koolance flow meter that connects to a fan header
*Upgrade CPU WB to XT rev.2: apparently it's quite do-able to convert an XTL, & simple. I thought you had a GT which does not have an upgrade path.
*Pump PCB replacement mod: fun to play with, even if it turns out to be negligible on-balance.
*IndigoX as TIM for my GPU WB? awesome TIM for my CPU, love it! They do not make one for GPU's and you cannot use one for a CPU for it.
*MCP-35x cooling lift: won't have an impact on cooling, but should contribute to longevity of pump. This is true.
Maybe later (suggest your favorite makes/models):
*Larger (360mm?) Rad: perhaps an entirely different OEM? Swiftech is the best bang for the buck, but yes a larger rad would be my first choice over everything else.
*CPU WB: better swiftech or an entirely diff. make/model?
*PWM Pump: better swiftech or an entirely diff. make/model?
Latter two items I probably won't bother with, unless there's some very compelling suggestions.

Qns not yet addressed in the thread:
(1)
When's IB due, it's still something vague like "any time Q1 2012" right? That is according to the Intel time table assuming they stay on track.
(2)
Better joins perhaps? More metal in the loop instead of plastic tubing etc.
How about swapping-out all the joins w/copper instead of plastic, or just adding bigger/longer copper joins? Copper would just be more durable.



Low end & low heat? I wouldn't call it that. Maybe compared to a 590 it is.
But compared to the lowest end discretes, it's very high-end & high heat.

Answered some of them.

[Utnorris]

Res with simple flow meter, no power needed:

http://www.performance-pcs.com/catal...ducts_id=30190

http://www.performance-pcs.com/catal...ducts_id=30244

http://www.performance-pcs.com/catal...ducts_id=25685

Swiftech rad would be the best bang for the buck:

http://www.jab-tech.com/Swiftech-MCR...k-pr-3320.html

As far as fittings that can make it easier, there are all types from 45 degree angle fittings to quick disconnects from Koolance. You will have to take a look and see what best fits your needs.

[Conumdrum]

I think Swiftech is working on one, there is a thread I think. You read many threads here besides your own?

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...d.php?t=268965

No, it's only for CPUs. GPUs arent as temp sensitive, and there are many different GPU sizes.

What rad to recommend?

First you determine you heatload. Then your noise tolerance. Then the rad, then the fans for that heatload.

Then you buy it. You only need more rad, you won't get any significant changes in temp without a new rad.

Lots of info here, maybe it will help. Gonna take some homework. Most of us slog through it and figure it out.

http://www.overclockers.com/forums/s...96&postcount=3

[Utnorris]

Heatkiller and EK both make blocks for the GTX560. I suggested a new res because it had the flow meter built in and required no power. The cost of the res versus a Koolance flow meter and adapter was pretty close to the same. The benefit would be easier for you to setup, easily seen and required no power to operate.

Here is a link to the blocks:

http://www.aquatuning.us/index.php/c...0-580-590.html

[jalyst]

If there's anything you reckon I'm missing, then please let me know, thank-you!

Tweaks/upgrades:

Separate thread for Tubing, & Fittings/Joins etc.
Will finalize just prior to, or just after, finalizing GPU blocks & TIM.

Separate thread for GPU blocks & TIM.
Lower priority for now, not getting a 560Ti for at least 2-weeks.

Pending (items below almost sorted, awaiting feed-back from Perf-PC & DIYINHK)

Pump PCB replacement
Looks like it's possible to install a toshiba PCB into my spare MCP35X, & get a significant performance/noise boost.
Or possible to use an older rev. DDC pump + Swiftech's MCP35x top for the PCB install.
Fun to play with, even if it has a negligible cooling impact overall.......
YTBD if DIYIHNK is going to enable direct PWM control, if not then I probably won't bother, too much work for little gain.
It is possible to enable PWM on the PCB if one is so inclined....

Rad. upgrade (shrouding for intake/exhaust for 4x AP-15 in P+P)
http://www.performance-pcs.com/catal...ducts_id=28832
http://www.performance-pcs.com/catal...ducts_id=29693
http://www.performance-pcs.com/catal...ducts_id=30647
Screws for Fans/Rad/Shrouds assembly:
Performance-PC are seeing if they can source some M3.5 screws that are at least 53.4mm long.
25 (fan) + 1 (sealing strip) + 25.4 (largest shroud I'm interested in, has gasket on rad. end) + 2mm? (to screw into rad) = at least 53.4mm.

These sorta screws often have threading on the head-end too, & the head itself is just a nut, right?
Handy for when I want to try smaller shroud, no shroud, no sealing strip etc, can just screw the head/nut further down the shaft!
*update* James from Perf-PC says they're not adjustable, apparently I'll just have to get 4x different M3.5 lengths!

Maybe I should check some local hardware stores to see if they have anything?
I need at least one other length, but rather than bother with 4x different M3.5 lengths...
Maybe I should get the longest I can find & shove-on some washers to make it "shorter", whenever I want to use thinner shrouds?
_________________________________________
Sorted (buy once everything else is narrowed down)

After-market top for my MCP35X
Don't think this is possible with the way the MCP35X is integrated into the MCR_Drive?
And the MCP35X/Top integrated into the MCR_Drive may always, hold an advantage, over a MCP35X + an after-market top anyway.
So I guess it's moot worrying about an after-market top?!?

Upgrade Apogee XTL to XT rev.2
Apparently it may be possible to convert the XTL in my kit. (update: it's possible & simple/cheap)

Swiftech MCP35X-HS
Not going to impact cooling performance, but should reduce stress on pump, nice review here.
Takes 80mmx15mm fans only, & it seems none are included.
MCP35X cooling lift & DDC3.2 pump heat scoping

Rad. Stand/Bracket
For bolting entire rad. assembly (fans/shrouds/rad) to the case's lid.
http://www.performance-pcs.com/catal...ducts_id=30108
__________________________________________________ ___________________________
Maybe (later)

Larger (360mm?) Rad (suggest your favorite make/model)
Swiftech MCR-320
Retailers with large Rad. selection:
http://www.gammods.com.au/store/inde...ndex&cPath=1_2

Flow Meter
INS-FM18 (is it better than INS-FM17N, why's it $10 more, merely build materials?)
http://www.koolance.com/water-coolin...roduct_id=1170
Interesting read: Flow Meter and Manometer Calibration Testing.
Temp Sensor
SEN-AP005PB
http://www.koolance.com/water-coolin...product_id=738

Level Sensor (SEN2-LVL70)
http://www.koolance.com/water-coolin...product_id=985
Filtration (INS-FLTR01)
http://www.koolance.com/water-coolin...product_id=790

[Martinm210]

I would probably go full cover GPU with copper base (no plating), and acetal or acrylic top..acetal would be more durable. GPU only is a good option too if you have enough case flow in the area. Not sure on TIMs. For fittings I like DD/BP Fatboy barbs and clamps. Flow meter looks good, but I also would consider the Technofront bay reservoirs UT suggested earlier (no personal experience, but that's a nice float type indicator). Shrouds don't have to be anything fancy to work, so whatever you like the looks of best. Check with Swiftech on the XTL upgrade (My rev2 top came with the inlet plate, but I'm not sure that is typical...you may have to request that piece). Cooling the pump - you can do the lift mod, or something like this would be even better.

[Conumdrum]

You don't split the flow, ever. Unless the blocks and tubing runs are the same. It's done with parellel GPU blocks, thats it. Flow through the restrictive block will be low. Meaning your CPU block will get little flow and very poor temps.

[NaeKuh]

189 Liters?! What makes you say so much more would have to be added?

uhh math?

Ignoring a heat exchanger (ie Radiator)

It takes 300W of heat with water moving @ 1gpm for it to go up 1C.

That means every 300W u have every minute 1 gallon of coolant went up 1C.
If you had 2 galons, it would of gone up 1/2C in 1 minute.

So u have 50 gallons, it would take roughly 50 minutes @ heat in 300W with water moving @ 1gpm for it to go up 1C.

50 minutes is not a long time..


And of course that number changes greatly with flow... and i ignored a lot of little variables which act against it.. but u get the gist.

[Conumdrum]

Interesting... so it's always:
One big loop, or 2x or more entirely separate loops?
You only ever split when you have 2x (or more) tubing-runs + water-blocks, that are exactly the same?
And you typically split into smaller tubes, & once exited the 2x WB's, rejoin them into 1x big tube before rad. re-entry?

I'm talking about using the SLI fittings for GPU blocks. And ONLY on GPUs. Nothing to do with odd tubing runs.

A loop is always series when rad/pump, cpu block to GPU etc is talked about. Parellel is internals of how you run your GPU setup.

It's very simple.

Watercooling 101.

Some run two loops like I do. CPU has it's own pump and res/rad, and the GPU loop is seperate, fully seperate. All depends on heatload, flow rates, etc etc. And what YOU want to do.

[OC Maximus]

I love this place and the people here

Props to the gurus

Great info.

[jalyst]

I'm talking about using the SLI fittings for GPU blocks. And ONLY on GPUs.<SNIP>
Some run two loops like I do. CPU has it's own pump and res/rad, and the GPU loop is seperate, fully seperate. All depends on heatload, flow rates, etc etc. And what YOU want to do.

Well, the same thing could apply to multi-CPU builds too (I don't mean multi-core).
I was just confirming the 2x majorly used topologies, the 1x sub-topology, & where they apply etc.
So you run 2x separate loops, each with their own rad/pump, one for your CPU & one for your GPU's.
I don't think that's suitable for me....
I'll just stick with the 1x big loop topology, unless I go SLI or get a higher-power CPU/Mem/MB.

[Martinm210]

These are the only two FC suitable for 560Ti that I know of:
http://www.dangerden.com/store/dd-gt...rylic-top.html
http://www.ekwaterblocks.com/shop/bl...al-nickel.html
So you would prefer the DD??

Yeah but I don't really have anywhere internally (that I can think of) that I could put the res.
Think it just keeps things simpler if I use the one you suggested originally, so long as it's not markedly less accurate!?

With all the plating issues showing up, I would pick the DD block simply because it's bare copper. I would also go with the Koolance flow meter.

[jalyst]

The only input needed now is criticisms or preferred alternatives, for items in the sorted section of Tweaks/Upgrades:

After-market top for my MCP35X
Don't think this is possible with the way the MCP35X is integrated into the MCR_Drive?
And the MCP35X/Top integrated into the MCR_Drive may always, hold an advantage, over a MCP35X + an after-market top anyway.
So I guess it's moot worrying about an after-market top?!?

Upgrade Apogee XTL to XT rev.2
Apparently it may be possible to convert the XTL in my kit. (update: it's possible & simple/cheap)

Swiftech MCP35X-HS
Not going to impact cooling performance, but should reduce stress on pump, nice review here.
Takes 80mmx15mm fans only, & it seems none are included.
MCP35X cooling lift & DDC3.2 pump heat scoping

Rad. Stand/Bracket
For bolting entire rad. assembly (fans/shrouds/rad) to the case's lid.
http://www.performance-pcs.com/catal...ducts_id=30108

The rest has been spun-off to dedicated threads & is resolved or nearly, or is awaiting feedback from OEM/retailer.

[Vapor]

If you want the stuff, get it [shrug]

Here's my take on your parts: temp sensor and flow meter won't do anything for performance or usability; they're toys unless you have a specific use for them. Aftermarket pump top won't work because a pump is required to be attached to the MCR-Drive. If a the rad stand/bracket will help you attach the rad to the case and you want your rad attached to your case, then you should get it.

XTL top swap to an XTr2 won't get you much performance, maybe a fraction of a degree, but will allow for larger compression fittings (make sure you also request the configurable plate and screws from Swiftech). The pump heatsink isn't necessary, but if you want it, get it.