Results 1 to 20 of 20

Thread: Is it worth watercooling Phenom 2's?

  1. #1
    Xtreme Enthusiast
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    757

    Is it worth watercooling Phenom 2's?

    So back in the day when i water cooled my original phenom (not a phenom 2), it didn't overclock better at all unlike my socket 775 system that saw some pretty good gains. So now i have an phenom 2 x3 720 and I'm wondering if its worth spending the money on a water cooling setup for this cpu. What about if i purchased a 955 or 965 (when released) would those benefit more from being water cooled? Currently I'm using a TRUE with 2 fans.
    Quote Originally Posted by Manicdan View Post
    real men like the idea of packing lots of stuff into a very small space, which is what the mac mini is
    ----------------------------------------------------

    Quote Originally Posted by Baron_Davis View Post
    PS. I'm even tougher IRL.

  2. #2
    The cooler you keep a 955 the higher it will scale! I would venture to say the same about the 720.

  3. #3
    Xtreme Addict
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Birmingham AL.
    Posts
    1,079
    I water cooled a 940 back in Jan. and was only able to gain a questionable ~50Mhz over good Air. Havent taken the time since then but I would assume that its about the same story with AM3 Phenom 2's. I dont think your realy gonna see much gain over air cooling until your cooling below ambient temps.
    Particle's First Rule of Online Technical Discussion:
    As a thread about any computer related subject has its length approach infinity, the likelihood and inevitability of a poorly constructed AMD vs. Intel fight also exponentially increases.

    Rule 1A:
    Likewise, the frequency of a car pseudoanalogy to explain a technical concept increases with thread length. This will make many people chuckle, as computer people are rarely knowledgeable about vehicular mechanics.

    Rule 2:
    When confronted with a post that is contrary to what a poster likes, believes, or most often wants to be correct, the poster will pick out only minor details that are largely irrelevant in an attempt to shut out the conflicting idea. The core of the post will be left alone since it isn't easy to contradict what the person is actually saying.

    Rule 2A:
    When a poster cannot properly refute a post they do not like (as described above), the poster will most likely invent fictitious counter-points and/or begin to attack the other's credibility in feeble ways that are dramatic but irrelevant. Do not underestimate this tactic, as in the online world this will sway many observers. Do not forget: Correctness is decided only by what is said last, the most loudly, or with greatest repetition.

    Remember: When debating online, everyone else is ALWAYS wrong if they do not agree with you!

  4. #4
    Xtreme Addict
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    milwaukee
    Posts
    1,683
    the colder the better, i know gotvoltage's loop gains some serious mhz over air, but i think the gains from a true push/pull wouldnt be too great going to a single rad loop
    LEO!!!!
    amd phenom II x6 1100T | gigabyte 990fxa-ud3 . .
    2x2gb g.skill 2133c8 | 128gb g.skill falcon ssd
    sapphire ati 5850 | x-fi xtrememusic. . .
    samsung f4 2tb | samsung dvdrw . .
    corsair tx850w | windows 7 64-bit.
    ddc3.25 xspc restop | ek ltx | mc-tdx | BIP . .
    lycosa-g9-z2300 | 26" 1920x1200 lcd .

  5. #5
    Xtremely High Voltage Sparky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Ohio, USA
    Posts
    16,048
    Water is just.... cooler

    I already had it so I used it.
    The Cardboard Master
    Crunch with us, the XS WCG team
    Intel Core i7 2600k @ 4.5GHz, 16GB DDR3-1600, Radeon 7950 @ 1000/1250, Win 10 Pro x64

  6. #6
    I am Xtreme zanzabar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    SF bay area, CA
    Posts
    15,769
    Quote Originally Posted by SparkyJJO View Post
    Water is just.... cooler

    I already had it so I used it.
    same here, im not sure if it clocks better but to cool my 720 i with my pa120.2, mcp355 w/ top and dtekv2 i only needed my sanaces at 800rpm and it never went over 40c on the core even right below 4ghz and with wcg it was loading at about 28c. with similar settings on a zalman 9500 it loaded at 63 with about the same ambiants of 75f. and i think that liquid on the NB/PWM on the gd70 would help alot but there are no good blocks
    5930k, R5E, samsung 8GBx4 d-die, vega 56, wd gold 8TB, wd 4TB red, 2TB raid1 wd blue 5400
    samsung 840 evo 500GB, HP EX 1TB NVME , CM690II, swiftech h220, corsair 750hxi

  7. #7
    L-l-look at you, hacker.
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Perth, Western Australia
    Posts
    4,643
    From my experience, most Phenom IIs I've worked with have topped out of their own accord long before they were hitting thermal barriers, meaning I'd say you don't "need" WC in the same sense that an i7 "needs" WC to allow it to reach full potential.

    However, WC is always > air for cooling:noise ratio, so you'd be able to get the same level of cooling with a water loop with 800rpm fans that you would otherwise get out of, say, a TRUE with 1,600rpm fans (estimates only here). Not sure if that's an issue for you, and really, if I didn't already have the capacity to WC a Phenom II chip, or just needed a new block to do so (which would cost less than the cost of a good air cooler), I wouldn't consider it all worth the cost of setting up an entire new loop.
    Rig specs
    CPU: i7 5960X Mobo: Asus X99 Deluxe RAM: 4x4GB G.Skill DDR4-2400 CAS-15 VGA: 2x eVGA GTX680 Superclock PSU: Corsair AX1200

    Foundational Falsehoods of Creationism



  8. #8
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    92
    Quote Originally Posted by SoulsCollective View Post
    From my experience, most Phenom IIs I've worked with have topped out of their own accord long before they were hitting thermal barriers, meaning I'd say you don't "need" WC in the same sense that an i7 "needs" WC to allow it to reach full potential.

    However, WC is always > air for cooling:noise ratio, so you'd be able to get the same level of cooling with a water loop with 800rpm fans that you would otherwise get out of, say, a TRUE with 1,600rpm fans (estimates only here). Not sure if that's an issue for you, and really, if I didn't already have the capacity to WC a Phenom II chip, or just needed a new block to do so (which would cost less than the cost of a good air cooler), I wouldn't consider it all worth the cost of setting up an entire new loop.
    Yeah, I reckon that's a fair call.

    Quote Originally Posted by zanzabar View Post
    same here, im not sure if it clocks better but to cool my 720 i with my pa120.2, mcp355 w/ top and dtekv2 i only needed my sanaces at 800rpm and it never went over 40c on the core even right below 4ghz and with wcg it was loading at about 28c. with similar settings on a zalman 9500 it loaded at 63 with about the same ambiants of 75f. and i think that liquid on the NB/PWM on the gd70 would help alot but there are no good blocks
    because Zalman 9500 = fail

    Cheers

    AMD FX-8350 | ASUS Crosshair V Formula-Z | G.Skill F3-1866C8D-16GTX | MSI Radeon R9 280X Gaming 3GB
    OCAU

  9. #9
    Moderator
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Back and forth between Florida and Maine
    Posts
    4,097
    I can't answer the question as to whether it's "worth cooling the Phenom II," cause I'm just not that experienced when it comes to the overclocking advantages. What I can say is, it's very easy to water cool the PII processors. You don't have to spend a fortune on the "best" water block or the "beastly" radiators. You can use lower end (aka cheaper, but still good performing) water blocks and radiators and end up with a very nice system. I've used no-name radiators and blocks on my 955 setup and am seeing temps less than 40 degrees when the rig is crunching 24/7. This is with low speed fans, so noise is also quite acceptable.

  10. #10
    Xtreme Enthusiast
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Singapore
    Posts
    560
    it's not worth it, in my opinion, if all you want is the maximum overclock speed of your phenom II, i would estimate it could only get you a maximum increase of 100mhz, but then i also watercooled my x3 720 comming from a v8

  11. #11
    Xtreme Addict
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    1,825
    Its not the best bang for your buck. Most PII's top out at 3.6-3.8 for daily 24/7 stable O/Cs. This can be done on air no problem even with moderate noise. W/Cing is fun and if you have the money, you will be able to squeeze that little bit more and reduce your noise output as well.
    Desktop:
    Antec 300
    Foxcon A7AD-S 790GX
    8GB Gskill PC-1066@5/5/5/12
    PII X940 BE @3.6GHZ
    Sunbeam Core Contact
    2x 640GB in Raid 0+1
    4870 512MB@800/1000
    Vista Business 64bit W/ SP1

  12. #12
    Xtreme Member
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Morgantown, WV
    Posts
    195
    Quote Originally Posted by crazydiamond View Post
    the colder the better, i know gotvoltage's loop gains some serious mhz over air, but i think the gains from a true push/pull wouldnt be too great going to a single rad loop
    Didn't know he had a water loop, that's interesting.

    Personally, I don't think you'll see much to gain over air. I know I've hit 4.042ghz on a CCF, I think I can see some small gains with cooler ambient temps...

    You will gain some speed, since the phenoms love cold, but over the 4ghz range, you won't see much. With my CCF, I get 3.7 stable just fine with good temps. My sig is a bit outdated, I've since bumped the voltage down to 1.525, and max load temps are more around 40c...I attempted 3.8, at 1.55v, but didn't get past 10 minutes of P95, and my temps were just dandy.

    I think, if you're into benching, your best bet is to make the move to DICE or LN2. If you just want good regular overclocking or you're looking for a higher 24/7 clock, I don't think you'll find what you want in a water loop.
    Last edited by hikaricloud; 07-26-2009 at 08:57 PM.

  13. #13
    I am Xtreme
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    6,465
    There i was, thinking i had super high end watercooling, getting ~32ºC idle and ~40ºC load (Prime/Linpack) temps. :ROFL: Now i see you are all getting this kind of temps on water. I have to say i'm running 3.8GHz 24/7 with 1.365V.

    I'd say not worth it, once you go watercooling you're addicted-- stay away from it.
    Asus Crosshair V Formula-Z | FX 8350 | 2x4GB Trident-X 2600 C10 | 2x ATI HD5870 Crossfire | Enermax Revo 1050watt | OCZ Vertex 3 60GB | Samsung F1 1TB

    Watercooling: XSPC Raystorm | EK 5870 Delrin fullcover | TFC X-changer 480 w/ 4x Gentle Typhoon | DDC2+ Delrin top | EK 200mm res | Primochill LRT 3/8 tubing

    Case: Murdermodded TJ-07

    sub 9 sec. SPi1M 940BE 955BE 965BE 1090T

  14. #14
    Xtreme Member
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Morgantown, WV
    Posts
    195
    Running 3.8 with that low of a voltage? NICE. But getting around 40c at load with that voltage? That actually seems high for some reason. :\ Unless I'm completely missing something.

  15. #15
    I am Xtreme
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    6,465
    Yup. Yeah 1.365V is nice but that is with LoadLine Calibration enabled so no Vdroop or even a slight raise in Vcore under load.

    40ºC load high? eh...

    I have ordered a HeatKiller 3.0 LT so i'm hoping for a little lower temps, i've gotta say i have a fullcover videoblock in the same loop as well that won't be helping to get temps down.

    This is in a 21ºC ambient with my YateLoons DSL turned down to 50-75% speed with the fancontroller.

    Hope that puts things in perspective or is it still high?

    edit: I see you guys gettin 40ºC load but you have triple cores. Quads generate more heat!
    Last edited by Zeus; 07-27-2009 at 12:25 AM.
    Asus Crosshair V Formula-Z | FX 8350 | 2x4GB Trident-X 2600 C10 | 2x ATI HD5870 Crossfire | Enermax Revo 1050watt | OCZ Vertex 3 60GB | Samsung F1 1TB

    Watercooling: XSPC Raystorm | EK 5870 Delrin fullcover | TFC X-changer 480 w/ 4x Gentle Typhoon | DDC2+ Delrin top | EK 200mm res | Primochill LRT 3/8 tubing

    Case: Murdermodded TJ-07

    sub 9 sec. SPi1M 940BE 955BE 965BE 1090T

  16. #16
    Xtreme Mentor
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    State of Confusion, USA
    Posts
    2,513
    Quote Originally Posted by Wiggy McShades View Post
    So back in the day when i water cooled my original phenom (not a phenom 2), it didn't overclock better at all unlike my socket 775 system that saw some pretty good gains. So now i have an phenom 2 x3 720 and I'm wondering if its worth spending the money on a water cooling setup for this cpu. What about if i purchased a 955 or 965 (when released) would those benefit more from being water cooled? Currently I'm using a TRUE with 2 fans.
    Hey Wiggy, if your using a TRUE w/2 fans the most you'd probably get from water would be 1-200Mhz on the CPU Core...

    It seems like PHII's do OK until they hit ~53c load or 1.575 Vcore (YMMV)...
    If you can push close to those limits on air you won't see much improvement by going to water...

    I remember you from the 9600 days... The PhII's are MUCH better chips, but they still don't like to run high temps.

    Have fun, and Good Luck!
    AMD FX-8350 (1237 PGN) | Asus Crosshair V Formula (bios 1703) | G.Skill 2133 CL9 @ 2230 9-11-10 | Sapphire HD 6870 | Samsung 830 128Gb SSD / 2 WD 1Tb Black SATA3 storage | Corsair TX750 PSU
    Watercooled ST 120.3 & TC 120.1 / MCP35X XSPC Top / Apogee HD Block | WIN7 64 Bit HP | Corsair 800D Obsidian Case








    First Computer: Commodore Vic 20 (circa 1981).

  17. #17
    Xtreme Member
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Morgantown, WV
    Posts
    195
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeus View Post
    edit: I see you guys gettin 40ºC load but you have triple cores. Quads generate more heat!
    Fair enough, I didn't think about that. :P My bad.

  18. #18
    Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Seattle, Wa.
    Posts
    49
    I just switched from a SunBeam air cooler to the Apogee GTZ.
    I couldn't get any more MHZ - 3900.
    With WaterCooling, I can leave my computer at 3.9 mhz and at 1.5 v all the time. It stays cool.
    It's my first WC system and I like it.
    I'm glad I did it.
    P II 965 (4.1g)
    M4A79-T
    Two 5870X2s (900-1300)
    Apogee GTZ
    8g 1600 Ram 7-7-7-20
    Windows 7

  19. #19
    Xtreme Addict
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    1,489
    Yes and no, you can get a decent Phenom II to 3.8 on air, and 3.9 on water. The only good thing about water is that for any given clock you can run lower voltage with water because cooling off PII's increases their stability.

    It's kind of a tossup. I personally wouldn't set up a loop just for a PII, kind of a waste of money IMO when a near silent $36 Mugen II can take the chip easily as high, and keep load temps well under 50C.

    The chips do behave well though liquid cooled, so if you have a desire to set up a loop for your entire system, I'd say go for it.
    Asus G73- i7-740QM, Mobility 5870, 6Gb DDR3-1333, OCZ Vertex II 90Gb

  20. #20
    Xtreme Addict
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    2,103
    YEs ,,

    The key thing is do you really need it?

    If your going for max Oc like i do and like to play with Voltage then yes .
    "AMD...Like the perfect Storm,...Everything needs to be just right"
    X555x4SuperCore@4450mhz@1.64v..........

    RYZEN 7 1800x/ ASUS ROG STRIX VEGA64/ =EK NICKEL WB, Feser THC 2x360 1x480
    X470 Gigabyte Aorus7, Patriot 3400mhz 16gb dual2x8
    SSD Samsung 970pro,,860EVO

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •