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Thread: 3 stager build, part two.

  1. #1
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    3 stager build, part two.

    First, I wanna ask mods to not delete/move that thread to "builder/customers relation forum", because it`s big project, making at all from 0, and any advices from other builders would be appreciated (in builder/customer forum nobody can`t write).

    Ok, so I`m working on german 3 stage cascade. Originally project was done with some problems, for some months decompleted and I started it from beggining.



    Here is the scheme (autocascading stage isn`t 100% true, because in real there is more hx). At this momment I can get it -85*C idle (not vacuum, about 0,1bar @ suction).

    Compressor on #1 stage is Toshiba 3/4HP. I used captubes, exacly:

    190cm of 0,8mm captube for R290
    225cm of 0,8mm captube for R23 or CO2 or R170, depends on what I will have
    240cm of 0,8mm captube for R1150.

    Phase separators from MAPP gas bottles, for me the best.

    Whole HX structure has now new, big, insulation box, but inside you can see that:




    I used that autocascade from other customer build, which I had left in my workspace. It`s very strong and has good design, so why not use it.

    Compressors on II and III stage will be around 3/4HP and 1HP. Rotary. I`ll use captubes, oil separators made by myself.

    I stage is R290/R744/R1150 mixture, second will be pure R1150, third R14 with some methane and argon.

    Everything is on very small, steel plate with wheels. Unit will have two dual cut-off switches, manometers.

    If I`ll get photos, I`ll put them here as fast possible.

    For now that`s all. Will show fast progress

    Luke

  2. #2
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    Luke how is it you get your hands on plate HXs and compressors but not the proper copper fittings? You need to work more on your fabricating, you do great technical work but now you need to move on to stream lining the fabrication side of things. This will improve your assembly speed and accuracy and ensure no leaks on the first go.
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  3. #3
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    So how cold will this beast be?
    Under the influence of being Over the Edge!

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  4. #4
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    yeap, I know that I have problem with that.

    But at all my "piping" skills will be improved in II and III stage, I works and I don`t wanna "unassemble" it. That work has more than 2 years and it`s leak free, so I`m happy with that.

    Quote Originally Posted by HawaiianSupermn View Post
    So how cold will this beast be?
    Would be nice to see -120-125*C loaded . Who cares about idle ? It looks cool and girls are screaming when see -150C lol.
    Last edited by LukeXE; 11-13-2008 at 09:32 AM.

  5. #5
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    it seems like the compressors are much too small for an proper load >200W like new cpus on third stage.
    but i look forward to see your captube results with R-14!

  6. #6
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    If need, there shouldn`t be problem with changing compressors for bigger ones.

  7. #7
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    What is the point in building this unit? Novadays cpus are much "higher" coldbugged than C2Ds. I heared about -60'c/-70'c ones!
    Last edited by MaSell; 11-13-2008 at 09:53 AM.


    Quote Originally Posted by AndreYang View Post
    wtf..your cpu is better.

  8. #8
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    always is possibility to insulate evap-cpu space with something, to increase cpu temperature. Order was for 3 stager and 3 stager will be done. Who know what future will bring.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by LukeXE View Post
    always is possibility to insulate evap-cpu space with something, to increase cpu temperature. Order was for 3 stager and 3 stager will be done. Who know what future will bring.
    It's bad solution, I was fighting against CB for a veeery long time and checked that "trick" very well. In idle temp will be pretty low, but in load - too hot. Belive me

    Near future will bring coldbugs, look at all cpus from last 5 years and draw conclusions.


    Quote Originally Posted by AndreYang View Post
    wtf..your cpu is better.

  10. #10
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    So what do you suggest ?

    Maybe some kind of valve with hot gas supplying evap. Let`s say, something like cpev, but by using captube and valve to control evap temperature,

  11. #11
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    I'm not builder, so I can only suggest to build -80'C 350W unit but...

    ... if customer want to play with nehalem plus this 3stager


    Quote Originally Posted by AndreYang View Post
    wtf..your cpu is better.

  12. #12
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    Just build in a hot-gas bypass to counter the cold-bug and cold-boot issues. Nehalem seems to work around -115C to -95C on average from what I've read around here. Of course there are always chips that'll run much warmer, I used a QX9650 that coldbugged at -88C :shrugs: Have you tested that 1st stage for how much of a load it can handle? Would be a shame if it crashed when the 2nd stage was loaded by the 3rd stage. Do you stuff those MAPP cylinders or just depend on their sheer volume and velocity reduction?

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by [XC] gomeler View Post
    Just build in a hot-gas bypass to counter the cold-bug and cold-boot issues. Nehalem seems to work around -115C to -95C on average from what I've read around here. Of course there are always chips that'll run much warmer, I used a QX9650 that coldbugged at -88C :shrugs: Have you tested that 1st stage for how much of a load it can handle? Would be a shame if it crashed when the 2nd stage was loaded by the 3rd stage. Do you stuff those MAPP cylinders or just depend on their sheer volume and velocity reduction?
    And yours did better than mine as I recall I couldn't even boot at colder than -68c....
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  14. #14
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    months ago I tested that I stage and without big calibration it holds -50 @ 400W load (If I remember correctly)

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by LukeXE View Post
    months ago I tested that I stage and without big calibration it holds -50 @ 400W load (If I remember correctly)
    Impressive! Curious though, wouldn't it have been easier to do an R600/R170, R600/R23 or R600/R290/R744 autocascade and avoid that R1150 loop or are you simply adapting that "autocascade" as the first stage? If I were aiming at just condensing R1150 in the 2nd stage I'd say R600/R170 or R600/R23 would work like a charm.

    Quote Originally Posted by sdumper View Post
    And yours did better than mine as I recall I couldn't even boot at colder than -68c....
    well that was gautam's chip that I was describing above. All my chips have had CB around -110C to -120C and CBB around -95 to -105C

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by [XC] gomeler View Post
    Curious though, wouldn't it have been easier to do an R600/R170, R600/R23 or R600/R290/R744 autocascade and avoid that R1150 loop or are you simply adapting that "autocascade" as the first stage?
    Second option. I just got that "stage" done and wanna adapte it to that project. If it won`t work, I`ll make normal I stage.

    About MAPP bottles. They just work excellent, separation of refrigerants is very good. don`t know why and I don`t care

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by LukeXE View Post
    If I`ll get photos, I`ll put them here as fast possible.
    No offence Luke!!!! ...but I just wanna ask: Why you cannot show us some pics? You should have camera from pete: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...&postcount=297


    Quote Originally Posted by AndreYang View Post
    wtf..your cpu is better.

  18. #18
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    no offense here luke, but arn't these the same pics you posted weeks/months ago?
    mentally confused and prone to wandering

  19. #19
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    Guys stop bashing. Send a PM if your not offering build suggestions or compliments.
    I learned that lesson myself the hard way....
    Never empower an idiot with a response....

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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by VOID WARRANTY View Post
    how exactly does this thing work...it looks like your using parts from an air conditioner...i remodel houses and scrap AC,s for cash daily...i must know more..its a phase change cpu cooler right?...ware on the internet can i learn how to build one...i have torches..pipe cutters the whole 9 yards...i want to build one....some one pm me if thy have some info..
    http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...d.php?t=104454

    somewhat outdated, you need certain certifications tho too. I was also told by a builder to buy this book:
    first off buy this book at amazon.com
    "modern refrigeration and air conditioning"

    Pick up the epa 608 universal test, its a huge book you need to study then take an exam for.
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  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by sdumper View Post
    Guys stop bashing. Send a PM if your not offering build suggestions or compliments.
    I learned that lesson myself the hard way....
    I'll say +1 on both having the tendency to be tought the hard way as feeling Luke's being talked into the ground. Maybe it was just a couple of hundred buck but since I was so to be my first iban transfer twice ( as it didn't get removed instantly but at midnight, I thought I'd done something wrong ) and so he got twice the money I was supposed to send. He gave that back, it's was my mistake so I did loose on currency exchange but he could have said tough luck if he was the kind of guy you're making him out to be? Maybe he deserves some credit for having fixed almost all his issues and now trying to resolve the one's that remain?

  22. #22
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    im pretty sure you need to be ceritified no matter where you live, and its frowned upon here if you do otherwise fyi
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    Phase unit by runmc @ full load -33
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  23. #23
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    [crapingthread]
    EPA will kick your arse wherever you live. its illegal not just to vent but to work with refrigeration systems without your 608.
    [/crapingthread]
    mentally confused and prone to wandering

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaSell View Post
    No offence Luke!!!! ...but I just wanna ask: Why you cannot show us some pics? You should have camera from pete: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...&postcount=297
    I don`t have that camera. Pete never sent it to me.

    teyber, yeap, that photos are outdated, but I wanted to show how I stage looks.

    I`ll show new picks on weekend, if possible.



    If someone has any interest to me, please write a PM to me.

    ok, went down to the workshop and made few photos by brothers phone, needa find usb cabble and I`ll upload photos.

    ok, here you have (photo is really bad...)



    unit is uninsulated, just for testing. Clear photos on weekend, with sub ~ -100C stage II
    Last edited by Movieman; 11-20-2008 at 06:23 PM. Reason: cleanup

  25. #25
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    Gentlemen;
    I removed two posts from this thread.
    One because it was trolling and I've PM'd the member NOT to post in this thread and the other just to cleanup the thread.
    Keep it civil please or I'll be sending people on vacations to take some time to think about their attitudes here.
    Thanks for reading.
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