EU fines Microsoft record $1.3 billion

[CPLB]

I think you missunderstood what it is about.



If you defend MS its like saying Intel should trash all over AMD and kill it off while makign sure nVidia would never be able to make chipsets and GPUs that could rival Intels. Since they would be at a penalty from the start.

Hmm... I still think I got the jest of it. Rivals want to program their software better for Windows (and want MS to give them access to code), Microsoft doesn't want to give this info away so they instate a fee, EU thinks fee is too high and fines MS.

You're saying that the large fine also takes into account that MS has been dragging their feet on previous fines and accusations, and that on a world wide scale MS isn't following sanctions that have been placed on them by the EU. But why should they? EU prosecutes MS for these fees so MS lowers the fees in EU... seems right to me. Also, I don't see why Microsoft's delays on previous accusations by the EU should be grounds for such a high fine this time.

The company was also told to give rivals more information about how Windows works, so they can make their own software integrate better with the operating system that runs some 90% of the world's computers.

Microsoft agreed, but imposed a high royalty rate on the information, saying it was charging for the innovation involved.

The Commission decided that the rate - initially set at nearly 3% of the licensee's product revenues - was unjustified.

That wrangle lasted until October 2007, when the company agreed to reduce the royalty rates. This latest fine is intended to punish Microsoft for non-compliance with the EU ruling up to that time.

[Slay0r]

Hmm... I still think I got the jest of it. Rivals want to program their software better for Windows (and want MS to give them access to code), Microsoft doesn't want to give this info away so they instate a fee, EU thinks fee is too high and fines MS.

You're saying that the large fine also takes into account that MS has been dragging their feet on previous fines and accusations, and that on a world wide scale MS isn't following sanctions that have been placed on them by the EU. But why should they? EU prosecutes MS for these fees so MS lowers the fees in EU... seems right to me. Also, I don't see why Microsoft's delays on previous accusations by the EU should be grounds for such a high fine this time.

I still can't get why you or the article refer to software makers as rivals. Would you see me as your rival if I was to buy licenses off you to make my mass product be fully compatible with your operating system?! And would you make me wait for months on end and debit me the calls after I payed you a few millions for some cubic metres of thin air?

An US company didn't go by whatever contracts were stipulated with some european companies, and the EU retailated. I think it's as humanly acceptable as. The fine might be huge, yes, but so might be the money and the product appeal loss of the companies involved.

[CPLB]

I still can't get why you or the article refer to software makers as rivals. Would you see me as your rival if I was to buy licenses off you to make my mass product be fully compatible with your operating system?! And would you make me wait for months on end and debit me the calls after I payed you a few millions for some cubic metres of thin air?

An US company didn't go by whatever contracts were stipulated with some european companies, and the EU retailated. I think it's as humanly acceptable as. The fine might be huge, yes, but so might be the money and the product appeal loss of the companies involved.

I think they're considered "rivals" because (from what I've read) most of the companies that are complaining about the fees sell/make products that compete with services that Microsoft includes with Windows. For example, Windows Media Player and Internet Explorer.

I don't really understand what you mean by the second part, but I do think MS was wrong for doing this. The fees were too high and needed to be fixed. Also they needed to take responsibility for the charges placed on them previously by the EU, instead of dragging their feet. But i also think this latest fine was too high.

[Ugly n Grey]

My bias is free enterprise, if you get someone to willingly give you money for a product no matter how much it is, you should be allowed to do it. If they price themselves too high people will find an alternative and they'll crash. Don't give me this monopoly BS.

And the EU, no matter how big a market are in a constant peeing match with other trade zones, protecting THEIR monopoly, so you socialists can think on that for a while. Don't give me the "good of the people" crap.

The fine is a joke, the North American Free trade zone should immediately launch multiple investigations into EU companies and start fining the snot out of those with "monopolies" in their respective trading classes. Or just for fun.

[Shintai]

My bias is free enterprise, if you get someone to willingly give you money for a product no matter how much it is, you should be allowed to do it. If they price themselves too high people will find an alternative and they'll crash. Don't give me this monopoly BS.

And the EU, no matter how big a market are in a constant peeing match with other trade zones, protecting THEIR monopoly, so you socialists can think on that for a while. Don't give me the "good of the people" crap.

The fine is a joke, the North American Free trade zone should immediately launch multiple investigations into EU companies and start fining the snot out of those with "monopolies" in their respective trading classes. Or just for fun.

If you can get over your patriotic garbage, you would quickly find out the EU fines more european companies than it does with the rest of the worlds.

http://ec.europa.eu/comm/competition...rust/news.html
http://ec.europa.eu/comm/competition...s_new/news.cfm

[Ugly n Grey]

If you can get over your patriotic garbage, you would quickly find out the EU fines more european companies than it does with the rest of the worlds.

Patriotism? Capitalism. learn the word.

And that's exactly what I'm talking about. Thanks for pointing it out for me.

[Theli]

Patriotism? Capitalism.

In the US, there's very little difference.

Like UnG said, in a free market you can't price gouge, if the price is too high you don't buy things.

Yes, you can. As long as there are patents, copyright and proprietary formats/platforms, you can price gouge. We could of course argue whether this actually constitute a "free market".

Linux is free, yet no one uses it, and people still say MS is a worse product? No one is forced to buy windows, they buy it because it offers enough benifits to justify the higher cost.

But Windows doesn't compete solely on the basis of being an operating system. Being the platform with most support from 3rd party delevopers, it doesn't have to. This stifles competition and thus innovation.

I would go as far as to say that if Microsoft's API's would have been opened at the time Windows XP was released, Windows Vista would have been a better operating system today.

[Jamesrt2004]

Ouch

wonder what the EU will waste the money on though?

[Yoxxy]

Ouch

wonder what the EU will waste the money on though?

Their huge deficits obviously. Although I do like the idea that at some point they are going to force Eurozone members to have a balanced budget. Someone needs to do that in the USA 3-4% of GDP is simply ridiculous for any country.

[Shintai]

Their huge deficits obviously. Although I do like the idea that at some point they are going to force Eurozone members to have a balanced budget. Someone needs to do that in the USA 3-4% of GDP is simply ridiculous for any country.

LOL!

http://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/r...ctrpt_0801.pdf

And there is already tight budget rules.

[Piotrsama]

So, what's the EU supposed to do with that money?
They give it to the affected companies or what?

[Revv23]

Like UnG said, in a free market you can't price gouge, if the price is too high you don't buy things. Why don't you own a ferarri? Is ferrari price gougeing with thier extremly expensive cars? Linux is free, yet no one uses it, and people still say MS is a worse product? No one is forced to buy windows, they buy it because it offers enough benifits to justify the higher cost. Maybe one of those benifits is that more software is compatible with windows then linux. Microsoft isn't developing that software, maybe you should be blaming software companies for locking you into windows and not the other way around.

And I don't know what you mean by us vs. them. The USA has problems of it's own, like UnG, I'm not a patriot, Im a capitalist.

That is true, however the trade laws are basically political tools with, in my opinion, no real "protection of the people" benefit beyond getting politicians re elected.

I don't object to having reigns on the markets, just the way they are applied in instances such as these.

QFT.

[DoubleZero]

1€ = 1.5$, so yes Microsoft will stop selling products in EU.

[Starscream]

Ofc the fine is absurd high its a % of how much money MS makes a year and come on MS makes a crapload of money.
like if the EU had given MS a 1.3mln dollar fine then MS would laughed their asses of and most likely wouldnt have done a thing. This fine MS will feel (i guess) and maybe will act on it.

the EU hands out fines left and right on a monthly base but most of those fines nvr make the news like this one cause they are companys that are only known in a handfull of countrys.

And to those shouting MS should leave the EU.
The EU has some 700mln people. The profit made per product in Europe is alot higher then on the same product in China. So MS will NOT leave the EU.

i hope the EU hands out more fines cause come on how often have i seen the same product being way more expensive in the EU then it costs in the US. And no the higher tax rates arent the reason.

MS knows the EU laws and its not like the Eu simply gave them a fine. The EU has most likely given them warnings (wich didnt make it into the news cause nobody cares about warnings). MS chose to ignore the warnings and therefor got fined.
can't do the time don't do the crime.

ps. the US should also learn to hand out decent fines seeing how often i see companys get away with crap in the US with tons of US citizens complaining but nothing happens.


@v0dka
Exactly.
The EU ministers and secretaries etc are all apointed.
Wich pretty much means that they all have the proper education for their job unlike in politics were you get the job based on how good you look on camera.

[w0mbat]

Like UnG said, in a free market you can't price gouge, if the price is too high you don't buy things. Why don't you own a ferarri? Is ferrari price gougeing with thier extremly expensive cars? Linux is free, yet no one uses it, and people still say MS is a worse product? No one is forced to buy windows, they buy it because it offers enough benifits to justify the higher cost. Maybe one of those benifits is that more software is compatible with windows then linux. Microsoft isn't developing that software, maybe you should be blaming software companies for locking you into windows and not the other way around.

And I don't know what you mean by us vs. them. The USA has problems of it's own, like UnG, I'm not a patriot, Im a capitalist.
[...]

Dude, i think u just dont know that the EU has a social market and no crappy free market like in the US. Theres a difference, property commits.

[Donnie27]

Dude, i think u just dont know that the EU has a social market and no crappy free market like in the US. Theres a difference, property commits.

Hehehe,socialist market

[Shintai]

Hehehe,socialist market

Socialism is the big bad thing right? Same reason you have HMOs and 13% below the poverty line? Shame on those if you should just share alittle bit!

EVIL I say, EVIL! MY precious, all mine!!!

[vitaminc]

Socialism is the big bad thing right? Same reason you have HMOs and 13% below the poverty line? Shame on those if you should just share alittle bit!

EVIL I say, EVIL! MY precious, all mine!!!

socialism at a country that pretend to be capitalistic and democratic is a very bad thing.

sometimes governments just have to let theory of evolution to take its course instead of penalize the winners...

[Ugly n Grey]

Socialism is the big bad thing right? Same reason you have HMOs and 13% below the poverty line? Shame on those if you should just share alittle bit!

EVIL I say, EVIL! MY precious, all mine!!!

I don't have HMO's I have social medicine. Public sector. But when a company is private sector, I like it to be left that way. Not co opted via fining into EU's social structure.

[Donnie27]

Socialism is the big bad thing right? Same reason you have HMOs and 13% below the poverty line? Shame on those if you should just share alittle bit!

EVIL I say, EVIL! MY precious, all mine!!!

Simple correction just making sure he meant Socialist and not being social as in being nice LOL! I don't fear Socialism and never have. Free poeple have a choice to vote it up or down. I was stationed In Germany for 4 years and like some of their socialized programs for Health Insurance for example. Funny part is many of them were setup under the Marshall Plan. It was better in the early 80's when I was there. Please dewd, don't assume something without at least asking what I meant first. Often you can end up being the first 3 letters of the word

BTW HMO got perverted here in the US from what they started out as. They suck One of the best social programs locally is called Arkidsfirst.

http://www.arkidsfirst.com/home.htm

I'm registered an Indepent but liked and supported this. It works but we're a small state where it can work. There is no one size fits all.

[Sparky]

Dude, i think u just dont know that the EU has a social market and no crappy free market like in the US. Theres a difference, property commits.

[w0mbat]

@Donnie27: Yes thats the word its from. Whats so funny about that?

[Ugly n Grey]

We know what the market there is, and as to V0dka: assertion there is no pressure from electorate... how fast would new guys get appointed if nothing happened? I mean appointed by the EU elected government. To put forward that these two named organizations are without political influence isn't holding water with Bismarck's lessons in Realpolitik .

[ryanmartini]

go eu!

Ill send them Christmas Cards this year

[ghost101]

This isnt socialism people. This is about promoting competition i.e. better markets -> better market capitalism.