Swiftech H20-APEX "EXTREME DUTY" SERIES LIQUID COOLING KITS

[MaxxxRacer]

I might be able to provide some insight into this.

I am not sure on this so dont take it as the word or god or anything, but CoolingWorks might be building these radaitors.

Cathar, Im pretty sure the old MCR120 wasnt a BIP, but was a copy of one that was manufactured in an overseas facility to keep costs down.

[Ancient_1]

I am fairly sure the MCR120 was a BIP, and I 1st thought the new rad looked like a modded HW design (different tanks and lower fpi) but looking closer it is not quite the same construction on any of it.

Here is a quote from BillA on Rads (the new rads could be the design he was reffering to.

Willie sent me a prototype which I have not yet tested, but it has some problems
Willie and I were unable to agree on design 'rights', so I am still looking for a mfgr to make one for Swiftech the right way
(I will not gift a design to be sold to my competitors)

[Larry]

Has anyone found any reviews of this kit yet as i cannot

[BillA]

the original MCR120 was a re-named BIP (the later version)
the present MCRxxx-QP series are a Swiftech design produced under contract
other than the materials - copper, brass, and solder - there is little in common with the HW Labs products
the HW Labs rads are good products, one does not appreciate how good until one attempts to make a better rad
this has been a 9 month project to 'get it right'

[EnJoY]

Will there be a triple fan design version coming out soon?

[MaxxxRacer]

Bill would you be willing to comment on why brass was choosen for the flowtubes and not copper, and if the HW labs radiators are using brass or copper flowtubes.

[BillA]

I had a copper tube/fin rad made to test, no difference compared to brass tube with copper fin
- understand that rads are convection rate limited (fin to air) so the tube matl is insignificant wrt overall dissipation
all commercial products with flat tubes or corrugated plates (heater cores) utilize yellow brass (70% copper)

I'm finishing a 'white paper' on rads that I presume Gabe will release next week (??) addressing all rad types and their specific performance
- the usual but ever better accuracy and repeatibility

[EnJoY]

Will there be a triple fan design version coming out soon?

I second this question.

[Ferry82]

http://www.frozencpu.com/ex-wat-76.html?id=AhstPrrU

How is gonna buy one and test it.

[cartmanea]

Anyone have a lower price than FrozenCPU? The kit price is about the same as buing all the parts individually.

[Sgt_Strider]

I have a question, since the tubing used is 7/16, what if you want to use a GPU block? AFAIK, don't they come in 1/2 and 3/8? How can you pair one up with this kit?

[Psyche911]

The 7/16" tubing is meant for 1/2" fittings. It fits more tightly over them without too much effort. The difference in ID makes no detectable difference in flow.

[Ferry82]

Is there any review out yet.???????????

This look like a killer setup too me


What do you guys think???

[MaxxxRacer]

Bill, didnt even think about that, but it does make sense.. heat conductivity between water and metal is much greater than air to metal so ur ending up with the limiting factor being the air.. interesting.

I wonder waht it would take for the metal to air transfer to catch up to the water to metal transfer in a radiator..

[cartmanea]

More, thinner fins. That would create increased air resistance though, so more powerful fans would be needed. More tubes would help too as there would be greater tube-fin contact.

[Cathar]

Bill, didnt even think about that, but it does make sense.. heat conductivity between water and metal is much greater than air to metal so ur ending up with the limiting factor being the air.. interesting.

I wonder waht it would take for the metal to air transfer to catch up to the water to metal transfer in a radiator..

There's no easy answer. It's all about finding the right balance point.

[BillA]

There's no easy answer. It's all about finding the right balance point.

with ~6 interactive dependent variables, that is a understatement of some magnitude

[Psyche911]

More, thinner fins. That would create increased air resistance though, so more powerful fans would be needed. More tubes would help too as there would be greater tube-fin contact.

More tubes would also reduce the surface to air ratio though.

[Cathar]

with ~6 interactive dependent variables, that is a understatement of some magnitude

What is interesting Bill is that you have I have gone for two different design paths (excluding the PA160.1 work which holds some similarities) on our recent efforts.

Will be interesting to observe the evolutionary paths at the end of the day.

Still, with 6 co-dependent variables what would be most interesting would be to plot a 6-dimensional graph (good luck conceptualising it though), and then writing an analysis tool to plot of path of least resistance over the 6d surface. I suspect that we'd find a rather large "plateau" of acceptable solutions and perhaps you and I are just descending the 6d slopes onto different regions of that same plateau.

[BillA]

its worse than that
specifically the fin design; flat, slit, louvered, corrugated, dimpled. etc
lots of fin designs out there, now compound that with the possible fin thicknesses
and there is yet more of which I will not speak

but yes, this is addressed through parametric modeling (testing) and analysis

while there are numerous 'solutions' to a given task, I have found that very small changes in the wrong area have disproportionate decreases in performance
- if an item (liquid/air heat exchanger) is to excel, it must be close to spot on in the tube/fin area

[Xylo]

If anyone isn't going to use the rad. from the kit for whatever reason, I'll buy it from you...

[Ferry82]

If anyone isn't going to use the rad. from the kit for whatever reason, I'll buy it from you...

Why do you think its that much better than lets say a BIX2??

[Psyche911]

Why do you think its that much better than lets say a BIX2??

Noise.
You need higher flow fans for a BIX over this radiator, it would appear. As far as performance, I don't think we know yet.

[Xylo]

Why do you think its that much better than lets say a BIX2??

Well, I already ordered a blue one today.

To answer your question: no, but a) cheaper and b) I can use weaker fans...but I think it's gonna be better than a BIP.

[Teecee]

Well here is my short review of this kit. This is my first install so I might not know wtf I am talking about so take that into consideration.

First this is truly a complete kit. All you need to add is distilled water and have a screw driver. The kit comes very well packaged and you can tell it is quality stuff. It has 40" of 7/16 tubing which will be a snug fit on the 1/2 barbs but it works and should be long enough for most CPU setups. It also comes with some stuff that helps prevent kinks in your tubing. I am not sure if it works or not but I threw it on there anyways.

The instructions were pretty good. A little vague in some places and not well laid it. But this was my first WC kit and it is working with no leaks so the instructions are good, just could use some improving.

The two 120mm fans on the rad I do not like. They are loud. Well loud compared to a Nexus fan and you cannot monitor their RPMs via the MB. I swapped those out with some Nexus fans and now this system is completly silent. I have my pump on 5, which I believe is the highest settings and I cannot hear anything. The loudest thing in my case now is my dvdrom when it is seeking and the chipset fan which spins around 3000-4000rpms. As soon as a waterblock for the chipset comes out I will fix that.

It did take me 4-6 hours to do all of this but I am a noob at this plus I do not think the Antec P180 was the ideal water cooling case.

Would I buy this kit again or recommend this to a friend? Yes I would.

I am very happy with the performance and quietness. Brought my 3700+ @2.75ghz load to 40C.

Here are a couple pics.