120mm Fan Testing on an MCR120 Radiator Round 6

[Manicdan]

heres a simple test with them for how they sound:
http://translate.google.com/translat...Ds%26prmd%3Div

the thing thats scary is they have a 4pin PWM option, but it pulls in like 13W, is that going to fry the mothboards PWM connector?

[jalyst]

jalyst, that came from the site pointed by OldChap, and unfortunately they ship only to Japan.

So you have an address in Japan or you used a MFS?
If the latter, which MFS did you use? Thanks!

the thing thats scary is they have a 4pin PWM option, but it pulls in like 13W, is that going to fry the mothboards PWM connector?

LOL, hey that's a good point!

[miahallen]

I helped bing acquire the fans, and I'd be happy to help more of you out, but only for profit....and with the cost of these fans already being as high as they are, you'd be looking at more than they're worth IMO

I'd be happy to do a bulk buy for a lot of you for zero profit....but cost is still very high. Probably $60+ per fan depending on quantity.

[bing]

the thing thats scary is they have a 4pin PWM option, but it pulls in like 13W, is that going to fry the mothboards PWM connector?

One of PWM 4 wires fan advantage is, as long the psu is capable, just re-route the pos and neg wire directly to the psu, the fan will be powered directly from there, while the pwm and rpm wires still connected at the mobo header.

So even the fan is gazillion watt and the psu is gazilllion watt capable as well , the fan speed control capability and rpm reading from the mobo will be the same with above wiring.

[Manicdan]

One of PWM 4 wires fan advantage is, as long the psu is capable, just re-route the pos and neg wire directly to the psu, the fan will be powered directly from there, while the pwm and rpm wires still connected at the mobo header.

So even the fan is gazillion watt and the psu is gazilllion watt capable as well , the fan speed control capability and rpm reading from the mobo will be the same with above wiring.

good point, thanks.

[bing]

I helped bing acquire the fans, and I'd be happy to help more of you out, but only for profit....and with the cost of these fans already being as high as they are, you'd be looking at more than they're worth IMO

I'd be happy to do a bulk buy for a lot of you for zero profit....but cost is still very high. Probably $60+ per fan depending on quantity.

Yes, he is the guy !

[jalyst]

One of PWM 4 wires fan advantage is, as long the psu is capable, just re-route the pos and neg wire directly to the psu, the fan will be powered directly from there, while the pwm and rpm wires still connected at the mobo header.

So even the fan is gazillion watt and the psu is gazilllion watt capable as well , the fan speed control capability and rpm reading from the mobo will be the same with above wiring.

Hey that's true thanks for clarifying!
I have a sweet PSU, Seasonic X-650

I helped bing acquire the fans, and I'd be happy to help more of you out, but only for profit....and with the cost of these fans already being as high as they are, you'd be looking at more than they're worth IMO

I'd be happy to do a bulk buy for a lot of you for zero profit....but cost is still very high. Probably $60+ per fan depending on quantity.

Thanks for the offer, I might have to research for a bit longer...
If I can't find one for cheaper elsewhere, then you might be my best option!

I just want to donate one to Martin, he helps everyone so much with his research.

Thanks again.

[miahallen]

Looks like the high speed versions will be sold in US markets very soon......but only non-PWM by the looks of it
http://www.overclock.net/air-cooling...-typhoons.html

[Church]

That video in that review clearly shown that even at minimum rpm-s (3500@7V IIRC) those GTs are clearly outside tolerable noise range for me. I'm guessing though that some 2x120 GTX rad with such fans would be able to cool heavily o/c-ed i7 and two fermi-s with good deltas (though so would other mega-fast fans, and does it really matter at that point if it's 50, 55 or 60db? - After all, it's silent range where i want to squeeze every extra bit of fan performance out of 'em)

[miahallen]

You can see in a video I made for bing....the PWM version runs at about 2400rpm at the lowest duty cycle with Gigabytes CPU header....but with a proper PWM controller, at 0% duty cycle, the PWM version will run at about 1000PRM.....so, if you want the best, petition Scythe for the PWM version

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUZtA8Lp_j0

[Church]

I'd rather petition Scythe/Nidec Servo for some 140mm GT with 700-1700 range, no matter what rpm regulation, via analog or via PWM.

[jalyst]

^ But 140mm rads aren't that common yet are they?

[jalyst]

Looks like the high speed versions will be sold in US markets very soon......but only non-PWM by the looks of it
http://www.overclock.net/air-cooling...-typhoons.html

Yeah it sux hard....
It's looking more like I'll have to get it from you, if you're still offering?

You can see in a video I made for bing....the PWM version runs at about 2400rpm at the lowest duty cycle with Gigabytes CPU header....but with a proper PWM controller, at 0% duty cycle, the PWM version will run at about 1000PRM.....so, if you want the best, petition Scythe for the PWM version

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUZtA8Lp_j0

What does "lowest duty cycle" mean?
What is a "proper" PWM controller?

Aren't recent top-end motherboards sophisticated multi-fan (pwm) controllers themselves?
Or are there still much better stand-alone controllers out there?

I'd prefer not to have "yet another device" in my build.
Especially one that takes up one 3.5" or 5.25" bay...

But if it offers much better reliability/flexibility than a mobo...
Then I'd be prepared to fork-out for a top-notch one.

Sorry for the million and one n00b questions

[miahallen]

Yeah it sux hard....
It's looking more like I'll have to get it from you, if you're still offering?

What does "lowest duty cycle" mean?
What is a "proper" PWM controller?

Aren't recent top-end motherboards sophisticated multi-fan (pwm) controllers themselves nowadays?

What I'd like to see is a bunch of people get together and order one large order through me, as opposed to me filling a dozen small orders for each person. In that case, it's only worth my time if I make a profit Not trying to be an ass, I'd like to help everyone out who wants some.....I just cannot justify the time/effort. But for one large order....I'd be happy to do it for zero profit Please send me a PM if you're interested

Concerning your questions about PWM....check out this thread
http://www.overclockers.com/forums/s...d.php?t=641111

[jalyst]

What I'd like to see is a bunch of people get together and order one large order through me, as opposed to me filling a dozen small orders for each person. In that case, it's only worth my time if I make a profit Not trying to be an ass, I'd like to help everyone out who wants some.....I just cannot justify the time/effort. But for one large order....I'd be happy to do it for zero profit

Totally understandable, I don't think you're being an ass at all.
If no-one else signs-up to get a: 29, 30, or 31 from you...
Then what sort of profit will you need so that I can order one (maybe 3) from you?
At this point I guess it's best to take it to PM, lemme know if you want!?

Concerning your questions about PWM....check out this thread
http://www.overclockers.com/forums/s...d.php?t=641111

Thanks, looks like a epic thread!
Hopefully all these points of mine are cleared-up by it:

• What does "lowest duty cycle" mean?
  
• What is a "proper" PWM controller?
  
• Aren't recent top-end motherboards sophisticated multi-fan (pwm) controllers themselves?
  Or are there still much better stand-alone controllers out there?
  
• I'd prefer not to have "yet another device" in my build.
  Especially one that takes up one 3.5" or 5.25" bay...
  But if it offers much better reliability/flexibility than a mobo...
  Then I'd be prepared to fork-out for a top-notch one!

[shazza]

Please take any discussions of group buys to PM - as that's not sanctioned by XS, and not part of this thread. Thanks.

[miahallen]

Already there shazza, but thanks for the reminder

[zalbard]

^ But 140mm rads aren't that common yet are they?

They are being made by all major rad manufacturers... So yes, they are pretty common these days. Picking a good fan, on the other hand, is difficult, though, due to the lack of reviews.

[Waterlogged]

They are being made by all major rad manufacturers... So yes, they are pretty common these days. Picking a good fan, on the other hand, is difficult, though, due to the lack of reviews.

I wouldn't say "all manufacturers". Swiftech and XSPC have yet to release a 140mm rad and TC only has a single model out (PA140.3). Aside from that, there's Magicool, EK, and HWlabs...and HWLabs has sort of got the market cornered with crappy* rads for the time being.


*Crappy in the sense that most of them require high speed/noisy fans.

[zalbard]

Ah, yes, my bad, thanks for correcting me, WL.
Still, I think the selection is good enough to call them quite common, which is exactly what my point is.

[Martinm210]

Looks like the high speed versions will be sold in US markets very soon......but only non-PWM by the looks of it
http://www.overclock.net/air-cooling...-typhoons.html

Thanks for the link, curious about the 2150 most, but it sounds like there are some manufacturing issues...bummer, that seems to be the missing gap too. Also PWM should have been part of the plan. Oh well, at least some more options in the high speed...it'll be interesting to see how well the 3000 undevolts..

[Church]

Waterlogged: Hmm, what's with HWLabs crappy rads? Imho their low FPI SR1 rad line is rather nice. Nothing forces to buy their high fpi GTS/GTX ones ..

[bing]

[*]What does "lowest duty cycle" mean?

PWM is a method of manipulating an electronic signal thru switching the signal on and off while changing the on and off timing, for this context with the illustration below, the top one is at full 100% duty cycle while the bottom one full flat 0% lowest possible duty cycle.

PWM-Duty%20Cycle.gif

[*]What is a "proper" PWM controller?
[*]Aren't recent top-end motherboards sophisticated multi-fan (pwm) controllers themselves?
Or are there still much better stand-alone controllers out there?
[*]I'd prefer not to have "yet another device" in my build.
Especially one that takes up one 3.5" or 5.25" bay...
But if it offers much better reliability/flexibility than a mobo...
Then I'd be prepared to fork-out for a top-notch one!

Actually any mid to top class OC-ing mobo should have plenty of fan's header that have PWM control at them, and for sure any new mobo starting from LGA775 generation, at least the CPU fan header already has the PWM capability since the stock cpu fan is 4 wires PWM fan, just look at the header, if it is 4 pins, its definitely capable of controlling pwm fan.

About hooking up multiple PWM fans, actually you don't need to worry about adding the additional fan controller, if all your fans are 4 wires pwm type, you can drive multiple fans using just single fan header, and control all them from software. All you need is just a simple rewiring at those fan's wires, just re-reoute all pos and neg wires at each fan directly to molex wires from psu, while all the PWM wires from the fans are connected together at the mobo single fan header at the PWM pin.

While for the RPM sensing, these can not be join together, you need to connect each of the fan's rpm wire to every fan headers available at your mobo at the rpm pin if you want to monitor their speed. This is logical since the mobo can not tell which is which, also from the rpm signal characteristic, they just can't be mix together.

If you're using identical fans at the same place say like rad, all their speed should be similar at the same PWM dutycycle, and just pick one of the fan's rpm sensor and use it to represent all others fan's speed.

[jalyst]

PWM is a method of manipulating an electronic signal thru switching the signal on and off while changing the on and off timing, for this context with the illustration below, the top one is at full 100% duty cycle while the bottom one full flat 0% lowest possible duty cycle.

PWM-Duty%20Cycle.gif

Interesting, I THINK I get it now, thanks!

Actually any mid to top class OC-ing mobo should have plenty of fan's header that have PWM control at them, and for sure any new mobo starting from LGA775 generation, at least the CPU fan header already has the PWM capability since the stock cpu fan is 4 wires PWM fan, just look at the header, if it is 4 pins, its definitely capable of controlling pwm fan.

As I suspected,
But it's not just the CPU fan-header, all fan-headers on modern top-end boards are 4-pin nowadays, aren't they?

*edit* no they're not

About hooking up multiple PWM fans, actually you don't need to worry about adding the additional fan controller, if all your fans are 4 wires pwm type, you can drive multiple fans using just single fan header, and control all them from software. All you need is just a simple rewiring at those fan's wires, just re-reoute all pos and neg wires at each fan directly to molex wires from psu, while all the PWM wires from the fans are connected together at the mobo single fan header at the PWM pin.

Why not connect each PWM fan to each of the PWM fan-headers instead of just one PWM header?
I have 2x PWM headers and will probably only have 2x PWM fans, the rest will be AP-15 & 14, which I believe are not PWM.
That way each fan gets power & passes/receives RPM/PWM signals independently of one another.
Of course any fan/s that are too powerful for the mobo's power regulation would need their +/- wires rigged to a molex connector.
And then be connected directly to the PSU, but otherwise....

While for the RPM sensing, these can not be join together, you need to connect each of the fan's rpm wire to every fan headers available at your mobo at the rpm pin if you want to monitor their speed. This is logical since the mobo can not tell which is which, also from the rpm signal characteristic, they just can't be mix together.

Yeah this makes sense, thanks!

If you're using identical fans at the same place say like rad, all their speed should be similar at the same PWM dutycycle, and just pick one of the fan's rpm sensor and use it to represent all others fan's speed.

Wouldn't it be better to have discrete RPM sensing for each individual fan?
e.g. if you have 4 fans on the rad, but all 4 fans are represented by only one RPM sensor, then you wouldn't always know if one fan dies!
I guess that's just the limitation of not having enough headers, sigh, perhaps longer-term I'll need a multi-channel fan controller.

[Manicdan]

can i convert a 3pin to use PWM?
and would i see any benefits it i could? (my current assumption is that the PWM lets the fan control how it handles loading the motor, so instead of undervoltage it might just turn things on and off rapidly. so there is no way to make a 3pin fan work based on PWM connectors if im understanding this right)

im kinda disappointed at my motherboard because it has a 4pin for the cpu, with a decent number of options for setting the speed, but it only works if all 4 pins are there. other system fan connectors do allow me to control the default speed, but only at 100, 75 or 50% and no dynamic tuning.

soon enough i might try to find a way to adjust my GT AP-15s via temperature, but i cant figure out the easiest, cheapest, or best way yet. (also it must fit in the case i have in my sig)