Check this homemade WB out

[Manicdan]

Yes it would end up hurting performance. Why? Because as the post I quoted below says, the 'horribly tall solid brick of copper top' would pick up heat from inside the case then end up transferring that heat INTO the water having the exact opposite effect that you would want. Naekuh is right about one thing, we seem to be repeating ourselves over and over. I already explained that the top to any WB has ZERO effect on cooling in regards to size and material...

so you added a variable to make it worse. what if this was an open bench and all air in the room is 25C. or if the case has good airflow and is practically ambient.

[nateman_doo]

Just got a 3" face mill in the mail.



Need a better vise though.

[Martinm210]

Nice, I need a real face mill like that...I've just got the el cheapo lathe bit single cutting type...they work ok but that's about it. Seems like the tooling need never end in machining.. Id like a bigger lathe, bigger mill, TIG welder, pan/brake/............oh and that 24 x 36 shop!!!

[nateman_doo]

Whats weird is, my mill says face mill capacity is 1". Here I have a 3" bit and it works like a charm. I need a true squared block to start with though, cause no matter how long I sat there facing that block, it still wasn't perfectly true.

[Martinm210]

That could be the vise. A precision ground vise and parallels seem to help me with that a lot, although my passes are never as perfect as I would like either...
I think they call them die makers vices or something like that..mine is only a 3" so a bit small for some things..

[nateman_doo]

The vise pictured there is a 6" cross vise, but my standard 4" vise is a bit more accurate I think.

[Martinm210]

Try using an indictor mag mounted to the spindle and run on the vice surfaces...that's the only way to be sure. I picked up a cheap one at harbor freight and it works good for that.

[nateman_doo]

Is this what you are talking about:

[nikhsub1]

so you added a variable to make it worse. what if this was an open bench and all air in the room is 25C. or if the case has good airflow and is practically ambient.

Are you trying to be a pain or do you really want to know? I'm happy to try to explain (as best I can) if you are genuinely interested. The long and the short of it is, in either case, the difference in temps of the water we are talking about due to an over sized top are minuscule as in likely unmeasurable.

[jetroho]

The problem with the vises like nateman is using is the moving jaw tilts up when you tighten it . This type of vise is also too flexible at the fixed jaw and bed to get any kind of repeatability when changing the work piece position . Small changes in the torque you apply clamping the work piece will also effect the position of the part as well .
For precision work you need to buy a real vise . The best investment you could make is in a Kurt anglelock 4 or 6 inch model . Once you use one you won't believe the difference . They will also out live you if you take care of them at all .
Heres a link http://www.kurtworkholding.com/workh.../anglock_d.php
They are not cheap . But if you want square and repeatable , for the money they are hard to beat .
Look on ebay for Kurt vises . There is usually several to chose from at decent prices .
GL
j

[Waterlogged]

The problem with the vises like nateman is using is the moving jaw tilts up when you tighten it . This type of vise is also too flexible at the fixed jaw and bed to get any kind of repeatability when changing the work piece position . Small changes in the torque you apply clamping the work piece will also effect the position of the part as well .
For precision work you need to buy a real vise . The best investment you could make is in a Kurt anglelock 4 or 6 inch model . Once you use one you won't believe the difference . They will also out live you if you take care of them at all .
Heres a link http://www.kurtworkholding.com/workh.../anglock_d.php
They are not cheap . But if you want square and repeatable , for the money they are hard to beat .
Look on ebay for Kurt vises . There is usually several to chose from at decent prices .
GL
j

+∞

Kurt vises are astronomically expensive but, they were designed for an industrial atmosphere where they would be used (abused) on a daily basis. A cheaper (but no less effective) vise might be this one.

http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/NNSRIT...MT4NO=88940017

It's design is exactly the same as the Kurt and it should last nearly as long, provided you take care of it.

[jetroho]

@ waterlogged
I tried one of those some time ago . worked ok . But the one I got was not square anywhere . A friend bought three at the same time I got mine . One was real nice , the other two were worse than mine . If they changed their QC then it would be a great deal . If not , then not so great . imho .
j

[nateman_doo]

Looking into a vise now. I just picked up the dial indicator. All they had was the actual dial indicator. I plan to make a mount for it, install it in the arbor (or chuck) and just slide the vise along the X access. Hopefully its not all that jacked up. I actually hope it IS off, this way I know im not crazy. I ordered a set of parallel's (thanks martin) so hopefully I can make something with decent accuracy. The slit saw's should be here today. In fact they may just be sitting on my doorstep right now.

[Elpy]

Ahh I loved this thread. Just went though all 13 pages. First it was all flames and arguing and stuff and after Vapor's results showed that it didnt work out, most of the arguing started stopping and everyone got all cuddly and started hugging and talking about machining and better designs and stuff.

Definitely worth the read . But anyway my own thoughs about it: I was also really skeptical about it right from the start and predicted that results from Vapor would prove this wrong (since the temperatures with the heatkiller were so high on stock settings). But never the less I liked the idea and I also think that its nice that some people try different things and especially nice that you're gonna move on to different ideas/improving old ideas. Also really good that you shipped the block to Vapor and let him test it in the first place since a lot of people here will probably always be super skeptical about testing results unless they come from skinneelabs or some other trusted source.

Anywaaay a fun thread . You should post here/make a new thread here once your next block is ready (and hopefully tested by Vapor or someone)

[nateman_doo]

Heh... we can all be civil.

Santa brought LOTS of stuff to play with tonight. Gonna try that slit saw once I true up the table.

[Manicdan]

after santa stole your credit card lol

[nateman_doo]

table was trued up. less then .001 on the vise. Man that takes a WHILE!

ARBOR FAIL!!! argh! what a piece of crap!

[Martinm210]

Is this what you are talking about:

Yeah, you can also buy or make a flexible holder. Then you can indicat the vise floor and jaws of the vise to check square. You can also indicate the workpiece after clamping..really a must have tool.

I bought a cheap toolmakers sine vise, sometimes called precision vise or tool and die vise, etc. You can find them on ebay for cheap, it works ok..the key is the jaw pulls across AND down so both jaws remain parallel. It also hase a nice ground surface for the parallels to sit on/against.

If you have the $$ a better vise would be even better, but any sort of machinist vise should be a lot better than the slide vise. Holding that workpiece square and solid is really important for precision work.

My only vise regret is only having a 3.5 inch capacity, but it works for most of my needs.

[nateman_doo]

i figured out why the arbor blew goats. the 1/2" shank is a hair too small, so i couldnt get ANY of the saw's i bought to actually fit on. I can see why people make their own.

[JASSAF]

my Drill Press vise and my last jobs :


Grizzly: $16





COLDCOPPER V_2 :





COLDCOPPER V_3 :





.

[nateman_doo]

My vise is basically the same thing. Here is the tramming device that I made yesterday:


Just a .5" Aluminum round stock, that I milled out a groove. Then drilled & tapped it. Installed it in the 1/2" collet, and traversed the table a bunch of times.

[nateman_doo]

WIN!!

dremel vs saw:


Saweeet! Now the saw blade fits on the arbor. I took it to work and messed around with it a bit. Turns out the arbor was .5" +/- .0001, so I figured leave it be. There was a coating on the blade the was preventing it from going on there. Now its perfectly snug.

[nateman_doo]

A little bit of oil goes a long way.



That is a 1/16" cutout.

[nikhsub1]

Nate size your pictures to be like 800 wide, they HUGE.

[nateman_doo]

micro fins are a go.