MCR-QP Stackable Radiator Series Released

[gabe]

If the price of the fittings by them selves is $10 and the additional price for including them with the rad is $10 then it seems to be a non issue from a consumers point of view. Why include something many folks don't want if there is no discount for the bundle as it were.

Reason why I did the Poll. So far 56% want the fittings included, and 44% don't.

You'd want to include the fittings because if in the enthusiast community you already see a majority wanting them, it will be even worse among casual users.. and that's why I am concerned that we'll have people complaining that we SHOULD include the fittings left and right!

We are only aiming at pleasing the majority of the users out there.

Personally, I really do not have a preference other than the mechanical fit concerns.

[Meatpuppet]

places like sidewinder and froze cpu sell rads with the option of which fitting you want or no fittings. couldn't do you the same thing, gabe?

That would just be the fittings not included route. Producers don't micromanage like retailers, that's what retailers are for.

Reason why I did the Poll. So far 56% want the fittings included, and 44% don't.

You'd want to include the fittings because if in the enthusiast community you already see a majority wanting them, it will be even worse among casual users.. and that's why I am concerned that we'll have people complaining that we SHOULD include the fittings left and right!

We are only aiming at pleasing the majority of the users out there.

Personally, I really do not have a preference other than the mechanical fit concerns.

I can only speak for myself, but I am accustomed to ordering products where fittings are not included. I knos swiftech has much more of a "mainstream" market (microcenter and whatnot) than your average WC supplier so at the end of the day it is a business decision. All things considered, I think if you framed your poll differently such that it reflected that there were no cost savings to the bundle your poll results would be different. Basically if you ask the enthusiast community, would you rather be able to buy 4 fittings for $10 with the rad or be forced to buy 4 fittings for an extra $10 on top of the rad, you would get a lot more votes for not including the barbs.

[bmap]

glad to see that you care about client opinion and satisfation. voted no, but i see it will not be a bad option to include the fittings on.

[Eddie3dfx]

Sorry but this 15mm dimension seems wrong.

Per information here: http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/bishg14sidse.html "The length from end of thread to end of thread is 30 millimeters. " BP threads are typically 5mm. So it means that flange to flange, you'd have 20mm (30 - 2x5).. and this is too long by 1.4mm for use with 25mm fans.

Now by the look of the dual o-ring design, I roughly estimate that these can extend about 5mm , and this is too short for a 38mm fan.

BUT I also have more concerns:

1/ These appear much more restrictive than our 1/2" barbs which may affect radiator performance.

2/ More importantly, our welded threaded nuts are not always perfectly perpendicular to the plenum face. Using these fittings, we would have a solid connection between the radiators and if there was the slightest misalignment, it could prevent installation of the fans.. and this is the reason why we chose a "soft" alignment (using tubing), to compensate for this potential problem.

3/ A final concern is the fact that our radiators feature an o-ring groove, and these fittings are designed for a flat face since they have a captured o-ring. If the OD of the fitting body is larger than 17.8mm (the OD of our o-ring groove), then the fitting might not be able to seal.

Based on all of the above and looking at the Poll showing a majority of yesses, it looks like we'll have to include our fittings.

The regular D-Plug is 20mm, the large one is 25mm(I think), and the Mini-D plug is 15mm. The mini-D is only sold at performance. Honestly they have a very large ID, but the part that concerns me is exactly what you wrote, the
fact that the holes might not be lined up perpendicular to each other.
The D plugs leave little opportunity for wiggle room and if the hole is misaligned or slightly off, it will be hard to install them together.

[CmB]

Reason why I did the Poll. So far 56% want the fittings included, and 44% don't.

You'd want to include the fittings because if in the enthusiast community you already see a majority wanting them, it will be even worse among casual users.. and that's why I am concerned that we'll have people complaining that we SHOULD include the fittings left and right!

We are only aiming at pleasing the majority of the users out there.

Personally, I really do not have a preference other than the mechanical fit concerns.

gab, I think you have your answer. You really don't want the bad publicity of folks complaining you should have included the fittings. An out might be to include the fittings as an optional accessory? Kind of like an optional backplate for HSF. But then you'd get peope griping about paying extra for what they feel should have already been included. Kinda damned if you do damned if you don't. Include them I guess, you'll probably get less headaches overall.

--Chris

[gabe]

The regular D-Plug is 20mm, the large one is 25mm(I think), and the Mini-D plug is 15mm. The mini-D is only sold at performance. Honestly they have a very large ID, but the part that concerns me is exactly what you wrote, the
fact that the holes might not be lined up perpendicular to each other.
The D plugs leave little opportunity for wiggle room and if the hole is misaligned or slightly off, it will be hard to install them together.

mechanical fit: 100% right .. I think you'll be able to install the fittings, but then you won't be able to fasten the fans as the fan mounting holes will be misaligned.

In contrast, with a soft mount, you install your fans on one rad, you put your two bits of on, you press the second rad on, put your snap rivets in, and finish off by fastening the tubing with hose clamps. Even if the fittings are not 100% aligned, the tubing is thick enough to compensate.

BTW I stood corrected after the above post regarding the D-plug length.

[gabe]

gab, I think you have your answer. You really don't want the bad publicity of folks complaining you should have included the fittings. An out might be to include the fittings as an optional accessory? Kind of like an optional backplate for HSF. But then you'd get peope griping about paying extra for what they feel should have already been included. Kinda damned if you do damned if you don't. Include them I guess, you'll probably get less headaches overall.

--Chris

Well I could have included the fittings without asking, but I wanted feed-back. now I got it..The majority has spoken in favor, so it puts my concerns to rest.

I want to take this opportunity to thank the Xtremesystems community for the valuable feed-back, and hope that you guys will enjoy this additional tool in your war against heat and noise!

[NaeKuh]

I stand corrected. the item I saw at Sidewinder isn't the mini but the regular.

So the mini might indeed work, but I still have that alignment concern. how much of a problem is it? ppl haven't been complaining because it wasn't a problem at all in a standard setup, but it certainly is in a stackable setup. I have asked our QC team to increase their vigilance in this respect for future production, but this doesn't address the thousands and thousands of rads on the market out there.

price of our fittings (set of 4) is $10 . That's the amount built-in the price of the stackables.

current prices are :

320: $77.95 incl fittings
220: $63.95 incl fittings
120: $47.95 incl fittings

Gabe the problem is not a lot of us use open corner fans.
Yates no longer come in open corners. :X

[saxile]

Well I could have included the fittings without asking, but I wanted feed-back. now I got it..The majority has spoken in favor, so it puts my concerns to rest.

I want to take this opportunity to thank the Xtremesystems community for the valuable feed-back, and hope that you guys will enjoy this additional tool in your war against heat and noise!

Plus more cooling than a TC or Feser for less/equal cost , have always said MCR is best bang for buck, and now it's an even greater value.

[Utnorris]

Thank you for at least listening Gabe and I think you are right that it would be better to have them than not if there is an issue of mis-alignment. While I personally would probably not use them I am sure there will be a lot that will. I look forward to seeing some results. I am also waiting to see if anyone uses a bunch together as a big rad sandwich since it has been talked about before. My only concern would be that the fluid would be running in parallel vs. series and therefore not sure how well the fluid will get circulated through all the rads.

[saxile]

Thank you for at least listening Gabe and I think you are right that it would be better to have them than not if there is an issue of mis-alignment. While I personally would probably not use them I am sure there will be a lot that will. I look forward to seeing some results. I am also waiting to see if anyone uses a bunch together as a big rad sandwich since it has been talked about before. My only concern would be that the fluid would be running in parallel vs. series and therefore not sure how well the fluid will get circulated through all the rads.

if fully bled, shouldn't be a problem, although I have a feeling bleeding is going to take a turn from a PITA to a nightmare. Only one feature I wish would be added to the newer MCR is a bleed screw.

[gabe]

Gabe the problem is not a lot of us use open corner fans.
Yates no longer come in open corners. :X

Naekuh, this is just another tool in the arsenal of tools that you guys use. As I said earlier, it will save a buck to existing MCR users who want to boost their performance and take their system to the next level.

[gabe]

Thank you for at least listening Gabe and I think you are right that it would be better to have them than not if there is an issue of mis-alignment. While I personally would probably not use them I am sure there will be a lot that will. I look forward to seeing some results. I am also waiting to see if anyone uses a bunch together as a big rad sandwich since it has been talked about before. My only concern would be that the fluid would be running in parallel vs. series and therefore not sure how well the fluid will get circulated through all the rads.

Dual-row radiators also run in parallel Utnorris. The only difference is the additional pressure drop caused by the presence of the fittings.

[DeathWalking]

Naekuh, this is just another tool in the arsenal of tools that you guys use. As I said earlier, it will save a buck to existing MCR users who want to boost their performance and take their system to the next level.

How do snap rivets work on a closed corner fan?

[Tsaroth]

How do snap rivets work on a closed corner fan?

They don't.

[gillbot]

I'd prefer a 38mm fan myself.

[Blacky]

Finally I wanted to see this!! I have a doubt though, does SLIng 2 MCR230 could handle a 3-way GTX 285 + 920 in a single loop? I already have a MCR320 interested to getting one more

[Nickel020]

Sorry for not reading the whole thread, but is the poll on whether you to include normal fitting or the fittings to connect to rads? I think you should clarify that.

Also, please do include O-Rings that fill up the recess in case someone uses fittings that have a recess themselves (i.e. almost all fittings except Swiftech fittings). When I got my MCR320 I had trouble getting it to seal with the standard compression fittings for 8mm ID tubing that is common here in Germany. Luckily for me I had some extra O-Rings for my Thermochill G3/8 fittings around with which I was able to use the MCR320.

Other than that I think this is a GREAT idea. I expect performance to be close to a Feser/Thermochill (well I trust Swiftech not to release something that won't improve performance) and thickness is similar too, so it's not a problem. Flow should also increase since it's in parallel.

[fiveaboy2]

dude, have you got any results of pressure drop/flow rate - ie if i was to stack say three or four (or even just two) of these, and use it with a normal pump (ie 12v, not iwaki), then would people still be getting reasonable flow in a loop with cooled 4870x2, and i920 overclocked? would it scale well if we went for more rads, and added in a second 4870x2?

[gabe]

How do snap rivets work on a closed corner fan?

you can't install a closed corner fan in a stackable config

[Nickel020]

How do you remove the snap rivets if you want to take the radiators apart again?

[gabe]

Finally I wanted to see this!! I have a doubt though, does SLIng 2 MCR230 could handle a 3-way GTX 285 + 920 in a single loop? I already have a MCR320 interested to getting one more

If you have space, you are better off (always) installing a second rad by itself (in series), but if you do not have enough room, then this will give a very serious boost to your thermal performance at relatively low cost.

The problem we all face here is to strike a balance between space constraints, thermal performance, comfort of operations AND cost of solution. If space is the defining factor, then it forces compromises on the other 3. The stackable solution aims at minimizing the impact on cost of solution.

[gabe]

How do you remove the snap rivets if you want to take the radiators apart again?

insert a sharp blade (kitchen knife) under the Pin head and pull-up, it unlocks the female.

[Nickel020]

Ah ok, so it works like the fan mounts often used on Lian Li cases. If that is able to hold the radiators then that's great

[saxile]

well, it will *work* with closed corner fans, just requires a little modding to open up the closed corner which I have done more than one myself.