Phenom II 6 GHz+ OVERCLOCK

[Drwho?]

SuperPI? Tell me that you are kidding please ...
SuperPi is THE most useless "program" ever created.As for Cine10,i can tell you it's really intel tuned(you guys even use it to promote your 45nm Penryn and Nehalem chips...).Apart from the "tuning" bias,it really is not used that much so useless argument applies here too.The real software like Maya or Lightwave should be used in comparisons.Also media encoding decoding,gaming,archiving,multitasking are welcome.
But Super PI and Cine10 are just toy benchmarks,nothing more.Zero use,100% hype.

ok what is the one you want to use?

[demonkevy666]

SuperPI? Tell me that you are kidding please ...
SuperPi is THE most useless "program" ever created.As for Cine10,i can tell you it's really intel tuned(you guys even use it to promote your 45nm Penryn and Nehalem chips...).Apart from the "tuning" bias,it really is not used that much so useless argument applies here too.The real software like Maya or Lightwave should be used in comparisons.Also media encoding decoding,gaming,archiving,multitasking are welcome.
But Super PI and Cine10 are just toy benchmarks,nothing more.Zero use,100% hype.

Maya that would be great to see in reviews.

[justapost]

@DrWho: You plan to get a dragon system then?

[Sparky]

DON'T mention superpi again, the most worthless "benchmark" there is It is "ok" for checking improvement on a chip as you clock it up, but for inter-platform testing it is totally worthless, even among different platforms within the same company it sucks.

I was waiting for someone to mention it

[informal]

ok what is the one you want to use?

Francois,i already listed in my post what I'd like to see.

The real software like Maya or Lightwave should be used in comparisons.Also media encoding decoding,gaming,archiving,multitasking are welcome.

There are a lot of programs desktop users actually use,apart from running useless superpi all day long.Video transcoding,audio ripping,3d modeling,math apps,etc.

[FlanK3r]

I lOVE AMD

[Drwho?]

Francois,i already listed in my post what I'd like to see.


There are a lot of programs desktop users actually use,apart from running useless superpi all day long.Video transcoding,audio ripping,3d modeling,math apps,etc.

I like your thinking, it is how I think too for mainstream and Prosumer. We are on XtremeSystem here, so, SuperPi is fair game too, especially since AMD was recommanding this during the A64 vs P4 time frame
Let's do a little mix of all of this, and make sure we all stay cool, Olympic spirit into a fair contest, this is how it can be fun. Let's avoid the fan boy effects, it is all for the good of Human kind anyway, it is call "progress"

[informal]

Yeah but like i said SuperPI was useless even back in the day when ,as you claim SuperPi was "recommended".BTW,i don't really know if this is true or not,never heard AMD claimed that-can you post a link that confirms that claim?

SuperPI is ,and i stand by these words,useless in time and space.No matter in what time you go,past present or future,it's useless.It does nothing,it proves nothing(apart that intel hw can well predict instruction stream,has benefit from large cache of core and it likes the legacy fp instructions superpi uses).

Putting SuperPI in a test "mix" could only skew the results to intel favor without providing ANY tangible results for end users.One can say yeah,but my intel CPU does SPI in 8 secs and your AMD chip in 19s,so my CPU is 2x+ times faster!Which is the most ridicules claim ever.

[Drwho?]

Yeah but like i said SuperPI was useless even back in the day when ,as you claim SuperPi was "recommended".BTW,i don't really know if this is true or not,never heard AMD claimed that-can you post a link that confirms that claim?

SuperPI is ,and i stand by these words,useless in time and space.No matter in what time you go,past present or future,it's useless.It does nothing,it proves nothing(apart that intel hw can well predict instruction stream,has benefit from large cache of core and it likes the legacy fp instructions superpi uses).

Putting SuperPI in a test "mix" could only skew the results to intel favor without providing ANY tangible results for end users.One can say yeah,but my intel CPU does SPI in 8 secs and your AMD chip in 19s,so my CPU is 2x+ times faster!Which is the most ridicules claim ever.

ok, let s see what the Xtreme community will come up with
Let's see what will happen when the Intel Guys do LN2 too
And let's see how the product in the store will look ...

[informal]

You are telling me no one tried Core i7 under LN2?
As for the retail Deneb comment,i agree ,we have to wait and see what it will look like in OC department.But what we know from Shanghai,it will be faster than Agena clock for clock,it will consume 40-50% less power and it will OC to near 4Ghz on air while remaining relatively cool.All these attributes make it a potential killer mainstream chip, be it gaming or whatnot.
Oh and it doesn't have cold bug,which means 6+Ghz clocks under LN2 will be seen for sure.

[Drwho?]

You are telling me no one tried Core i7 under LN2?
As for the retail Deneb comment,i agree ,we have to wait and see what it will look like in OC department.But what we know from Shanghai,it will be faster than Agena clock for clock,it will consume 40-50% less power and it will OC to near 4Ghz on air while remaining relatively cool.All these attributes make it a potential killer mainstream chip, be it gaming or whatnot.
Oh and it doesn't have cold bug,which means 6+Ghz clocks under LN2 will be seen for sure.

nop, I did not try yet, so, let 's see. High clock demonstration by manufacturer is usually very meaning less, since the list of tricks I can pull to increase the speed is almost illimited. We saw a demo of a 4Ghz barcelona, nobody except AMD ever got there.
I am a very honnest person, so, every body need to understand what I can do ... I can change ratios on the fly, I can unlock parts of the CPU, I can defeature parts of the processors that does not clock well, and everybody who think AMD can not do the same thing is naive
This is why at the end, what matter is to have a curve with at least 4 frequencies to make sure that nothing was defeatured to get to the high clock (When it is manufacturer demo)

For the moment, I will pull a side those tricks and see what I can get with LN2, and to make sure it is true, I ll do it with a famous OC master , then, I ll pull my tricks ...
Stay tunes ! fun is coming!

[informal]

nop, I did not try yet, so, let 's see. High clock demonstration by manufacturer is usually very meaning less, since the list of tricks I can pull to increase the speed is almost illimited. We saw a demo of a 4Ghz barcelona, nobody except AMD ever got there.
I am a very honnest person, so, every body need to understand what I can do ... I can change ratios on the fly, I can unlock parts of the CPU, I can defeature parts of the processors that does not clock well, and everybody who think AMD can not do the same thing is naive
This is why at the end, what matter is to have a curve with at least 4 frequencies to make sure that nothing was defeatured to get to the high clock (When it is manufacturer demo)

For the moment, I will pull a side those tricks and see what I can get with LN2, and to make sure it is true, I ll do it with a famous OC master , then, I ll pull my tricks ...
Stay tunes ! fun is coming!

All that is fine and dandy,but you're forgetting one very important thing:
AMD has no room for that kind of stunts! They would loose A LOT if this is the case.
And honestly i doubt that this demo was a"stunt".AMD has nothing to gain since it would hurt the very much if people fail to reach close to teh claimed clocks.Remember: air cooling =3.9-~4GHz ,wc=4+Ghz,dry ice =5+Ghz,LN2=6+Ghz.
It's simple as that.

PS Intel doing the Ln2 demo after core i7 was long released and just after Deneb LN2 sessions would look a LOT like knee-jerk reaction...

[demonkevy666]

All that is fine and dandy,but you're forgetting one very important thing:
AMD has no room for that kind of stunts! They would loose A LOT if this is the case.
And honestly i doubt that this demo was a"stunt".AMD has nothing to gain since it would hurt the very much if people fail to reach close to teh claimed clocks.Remember: air cooling =3.9-~4GHz ,wc=4+Ghz,dry ice =5+Ghz,LN2=6+Ghz.
It's simple as that.

PS Intel doing the Ln2 demo after core i7 was long released and just after Deneb LN2 sessions would look a LOT like knee-jerk reaction...

http://www.bit-tech.net/news/2008/11...ed-for-ocing/1

In a ravenously positive post on Theo Valich's blog, formerly of Inquirer and TGDaily fame, he claims that AMD has worked specifically with extreme overclockers for the first time in years to achieve a 45nm design that is claimed to work flawlessly from -200C to +100C!

[donitsi]

Let's use liquid helium (-269 c) like muropaketti guys suggests/asks (Sampsa eg )

[Drwho?]

AMD has nothing to gain since it would hurt the very much if people fail to reach close to teh claimed clocks.Remember: air cooling =3.9-~4GHz ,wc=4+Ghz,dry ice =5+Ghz,LN2=6+Ghz.

We will know shortly

hummmm : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7EZm...eature=related

[informal]

We will know shortly

hummmm : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7EZm...eature=related

You gotta stop clutching at this straw soon.
The max clock AMD achieved with Phenom 65nm is 2.6Ghz ,which is 15% short of 3Ghz.Not that much.TLB issue made them dedicate the much needed time (for speed path optimiz.) for other things like fixing the damn bug in hardware.

Like i said,you need to stop living in the past.AMD's chip can work without failing in the range from -200 to +100 degrees Celsius,as Theo said here:
http://theovalich.wordpress.com/2008...re-i7-thunder/

During morning hours in US, I was contacted by several high-level executives who asked me is it true that AMD was sold to a private investor.
Timing of such rumor was without any doubt, pure FUD attack to steal the thunder from today’s announcement that got the press and enthusiasts tingly like elementary school girl.
The announcement is expiry of embargo on AMD’s Press Preview, held recently in Austin, Texas. Like I hinted in an article just days ago, AMD worked with selected hard-core overclockers to tune up the Phenom II CPU and Dragon platform (790GX chipset with AM3 socket, nothing earth-shattering here). The results are quite spectacular, to say the least.


AMD decided that the time has come to regain the crown in overclocking, and the company means it. You can thank all of this to several key members of former ATI Technologies, now AMD GPG. I know it is not fair to name the few, since I can’t mention them all, but guys such as Godfrey Cheng, Ian McNaughton, Korhan Eben, Macci, and many unsung heroes combined with old-school AMD executives such as Patrick Moorhead, who keeps his desktop machines OC’ed to 3.2 GHz and arguing with IT Police… All in all, this effort brought a lot of fighting spirit to AMD and these guys are now biting at all sides. First with Radeon series, then with chipsets and now with CPUs.
Phenom II is going to be extremely overclockable. How overclockable? Much.
With good air-cooler, 4.0 GHz is a given on almost every Black Edition CPU that will hit the stores starting January 8, 2009. This is nothing special, since Intel can do the same with Core i7 series. But, with water-cooling or TEC-enhanced water-cooling (hint: CoolIT), you can easily reach 4.5 GHz and beyond.
But, the real show starts when we dip below the zero degrees Celsius/Centigrade. History of AMD and sub-zero cooling is quite interesting. AMD was the first manufacturer to showcase vapor chamber and liquid oxygen cooling (yes, oxygen, not nitrogen) with Athlon 550 MHz that reached 1.03 GHz and became the first CPU to pass the 1 GHz mark. As the time went by, AMD slowly started to move away from Swashbuckler attitude lead by Jerry Sanders and put a dull corporate Motorola face lead by Hector Jesus Ruiz. All of this is past now, since AMD put substantial effort to produce a CPU which operating temperature is massive 300 degrees Celsius!
Yes, you’ve read it correctly – from -200 to +100, you can be certain that your Phenom will not fail. On-die sensors are tweaked up and they will not lock the part at -100 or -20C, and you can use dry ice or LN2 to crank it up to the max.

The max reached so far by AMD team is… 6.0 GHz! Given that most LN2 clockers use dual-core CPUs to reach 5.5+ GHz speeds, seeing 6.0 GHz CPU running applications such as Crysis is a testament to monumental effort put by AMD’s CPU and Chipset team. Don’t think this was CPU team only effort – guys from Markham worked hard on Advanced Clock Calibration, or ACC. ACC is exactly “the secret sauce” AMD needed to unlock these levels of performance.
Hitting 4.0 GHz on air, 4.5 on water, 4.5+ on TEC+water, 5.6 GHz on dry ice and there was a post at 6.0 GHz. Given the fact that dry ice is “weaker” solution than LN2, it will be really interesting to see what will happen when hard-core overclockers get their hands on these 45nm ice-cold babies.
AMD is back. And yes, Intel’s Core i7 thunder has just been stolen completely. Core i7 is a great CPU, but quite expensive platform, with three channels of DDR3. AMD Phenom II comes out with 16 GB/s of memory bandwidth using only two channels, and clocking like there’s no tomorrow.
The best part of them all is the price: AMD Phenom II 940 Black Edition will set you back for 40% of the amount you have to shell out for Core i7 Extreme 965 and yet, it comes with a radically cheaper platform of equal or even better overclocking capabilities.

[justapost]

We will know shortly

hummmm : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7EZm...eature=related

Hmm I was able to beat maccis 9600BE results with an retail 9600BE whom did 2.7GHz before on 790FX chipset. That was one of those early 3GHz ones. 790GX platform fixed alot of issues.

[Drwho?]

All that is fine and dandy,but you're forgetting one very important thing:
AMD has no room for that kind of stunts! They would loose A LOT if this is the case.
And honestly i doubt that this demo was a"stunt".AMD has nothing to gain since it would hurt the very much if people fail to reach close to teh claimed clocks.Remember: air cooling =3.9-~4GHz ,wc=4+Ghz,dry ice =5+Ghz,LN2=6+Ghz.
It's simple as that.

PS Intel doing the Ln2 demo after core i7 was long released and just after Deneb LN2 sessions would look a LOT like knee-jerk reaction...

AMD has tweaked the on-die sensor to not lock the part

no more comments from me

[informal]

Well you have to forgive Theo for his comments,he is not an engineer .

[soundood]

so hes gone right?

i am so sry guys but this guy does not impress me one bit, Intel engineer or not, he sounds just like all of the intel fanboys.

i had a look at his 'past' work, from various sites from the Aussie OC sites to various others, and all i see, is an intel lover.

so why 'grace' us with his presence here?

been with intel for 11 years or so, at the supposed cutting edge of intel design, and is only a member here since the end of 2007?

has had his hands on core i7 for ages now and hasnt put it under LN2?

this is small site in the big scheme of things, but it is very popular, especially for extreme clockers, and engineers and engineering teams?

im sry mr DrWho, i have read your 'posts' and you really dont have anything to say ehh? other than devils advocate opinions of AMD kit, like 'we will see'

chuckle, chuckle and so on

do me a big favour and go hang out in the intel section, maybe you impress them, not me.

is Chad Boga your brother?

[nanohead]

yay.... now beat it geek.

Yeah, I agree. Some of us like being underdogs

The intel fanbois always raid this forum and beat their tin cups against the bars whenever it looks like the goofballs at AMD finally did something right

You'd think this stuff was a matter of life and death. I guess some people have way too much time on their hands....

[Chris_redfield]

Maya that would be great to see in reviews.

I second that.

Maya, 3D studio Max and any game with the UT3 engine as thats what most games seem to be constructed of these days. Those are the benchmarks that would affect my buying habit anyway.

BUT it is still a lot of fun to see how fast you can push your super pi runs. I don't think it is fair to compare AMD to Intel with regards to super pi though. It would be like entering normal athletes in the special olympics.

EDIT: Thats not a diss against AMD by the way. I do like AMD, but I also like Intel. I suppose that makes me a geek whore.

[Titan7171]

You ever heard the song " Somebody is watching me?"........Why do I feel like ..sombodies watching mEEEEeeee?".........It seems theres always someone looking over the AMD peeps shoulders, lurking in the shadows......nervous they will lose their power, scared that their cpus will be obsolete any minute. I find it hilarious!

[SoF]

that's funny how one DICE / LN2 news brings up AMD in everbody's mouth so quickly
I am waiting for my chip beginning next year and see what it does - meanwhile I just keep waiting until some valid scores appear...but seeing that phenom could do 4gig DICE easy with heavy coldbug - some technical improvements + no cb + smaller die = a good chance these news are not that far from future reality :p

[Chris_redfield]

so hes gone right?

i am so sry guys but this guy does not impress me one bit, Intel engineer or not, he sounds just like all of the intel fanboys.

Well I would be if they paid the bills for me for 11 years.

i had a look at his 'past' work, from various sites from the Aussie OC sites to various others, and all i see, is an intel lover.

And you clearly are an AMD lover... so where does that leave us? In an endless arguement that could go on forever like a dog chasing its tale.

so why 'grace' us with his presence here?

Surely its a good idea to find out what your opponent is up to you. Especially if you wish to maintain an educated viewpoint of the market of which you work in. I think its quite cool that someone from intel bothers to sort through these posts in order to offer up an additional and educated viewpoint.

been with intel for 11 years or so, at the supposed cutting edge of intel design, and is only a member here since the end of 2007?

OMG!!! You mean PC tech life outside of XS just doesn't exist!!!

has had his hands on core i7 for ages now and hasnt put it under LN2?

Well...personally I would have put it under LN2 myself but the guy has said that he is capable of doing things that no other OC'er could do so his results would be beyond any mere mortal. But I would kind of like to see what francois could do with Nehalem.

this is small site in the big scheme of things, but it is very popular, especially for extreme clockers, and engineers and engineering teams?

im sry mr DrWho, i have read your 'posts' and you really don't have anything to say ehh? other than devils advocate opinions of AMD kit, like 'we will see'

Well...fair enough we've been burned by AMD's promises in the past so why should we trust rumours now?

I don't understand your rant going on here for simply offering a different and educated viewpoint. I understand its not one you want to hear but at the same time he has said nothing offensive and has offered up evidence or the promise to obtain it at a future date in order to back up his arguments.