Real Temp - New temp program for Intel Core processors

[unclewebb]

A toilet flush would be appropriate!

That about concludes the basic feature set. There are a few more things I might add in the future like a Vista Widget but I guess I'll need to start using Vista for this feature to become important to me.

If you do some testing, what I'm interested in seeing is how idle temps compare at 1600 MHz and 1.10 volts between water cooling and air cooling on the same processor. With the CPU putting out very little heat, I'm expecting to see a very small difference. Maybe as little as 1C. If we know this then people using water will know what temp they should be calibrating RealTemp to compared to their air or water temp.

[WoodButcher]

ko uncle, will do.
Here's a thought,,, beeps or a klaxon when the proc gets hot and save the flush for when it's totally cooked!

[rge]

Now you got me curious, more interested in what difference is between Quad air and water, but for E8400 on air (Zalman) versus water (PA120.3, Dtekfuz, dedicated loop) at idle, undervolted was roughly 1C.

I first tested under water idle for few minutes, 6x200, 1.06vcore, case open to control ambients.

I removed my water block, and put on old Zalman ?9500, let idle for few minutes then printscreen, same testing conditions, same ambient, case open.

Then put water block back on, tested under same ambient and conditions and also fresh reseat, let idle for few minutes then printscreen. Still got same results for water.

When I calibrate realtemp with -2.2, core and cpu temp reads same, but I left calibration off...though probably could have left it on.

[RejZoR]

Hm, who should i belive now?

CoreTemp = 43°C
RealTemp = 28°C
HWMonitor = 43°C

43°C seems more possible to me considering ambient temperature is 25°C in my room... PC specs are below...

[unclewebb]

rge: Thanks for your testing. It confirms what I've always believed that when you reduce the MHz and core voltage, there isn't a lot of difference between a top notch air cooler and water. I don't think there would be any difference between a Thermalright Ultra 120 eXtreme and a good water set-up. Heat transfer is never 100% so your reported idle temp during a test like this is always going to be a few degrees above your air or water temp. With my E8400 and a Tuniq tower, I found about 4C over is a reasonable expectation.

RejZoR: About 6 posts before yours I posted this which takes you through the calibration procedure.
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...postcount=1730

Do some reading about these sensors, calibration and what is reasonable. Idle temps 18C over your room temperature are not reasonable based on all of the testing that has been done in this thread. These sensors need to be calibrated for accurate idle temps. Other temperature monitoring programs have chosen to completely ignore this fact.

[CompuTronix]

unclewebb,

Excellent work on Real Temp, and the alarm feature. I've emailed you two .wav files which might be potential candidates. Once again, thanks.

rge,

Nice work on your air / water tests, and thanks for showing SpeedFan results. Your air and water CPU temperatures both agree with the calibration technique I use in my Temp Guide.

RejZoR,

Real Temp is correct, as it uses a Tjunction Max value of 85c for your E4300, which I'll bet is L2 stepping. Regardless of whether it's an L2 or M0 stepping, Tjunction Max 85c is correct.

Core Temp and Hardware Monitor still use an incorrect value of 100c for L2 stepping, which is why their results show 15c too high. Unclewebb has already proven this point during some of his earlier testing and analysis, so you can believe Real Temp.

Comp

[unclewebb]

Thanks CompuTronix for the vote of confidence. I think genquatr.wav might cause some one to go into cardiac arrest when that alarm goes off at 3:00 AM in their bedroom while doing an over night Prime run! I like it.

[kpo6969]

Thank you for all the effort unclewebb
I think I calibrated my E8400 and it looks pretty close, do you think I need a calibration adjustment?
Followed all steps in calibration link, have my mhz and voltage as close as I can get with my budget mobo.
Room temerature is 24c Thank You
No calibration adjustments made

[unclewebb]

Thank you for all the effort unclewebb

You're welcome. I'm glad I could give something back to the XS community who have really helped me with this project.

You better not tell anyone where you live. Users would kill for an E8400 that actually has accurate idle temps without needing a fudge factor to get there. Is this a recent batch? RealTemp will be out of business if Intel has finally sourced some 45nm digital thermal sensors that are accurate at idle.

Happy overclocking.

[kpo6969]

Bought from NewEgg in April 08
B# 808A169

[RejZoR]

unclewebb,

Excellent work on Real Temp, and the alarm feature. I've emailed you two .wav files which might be potential candidates. Once again, thanks.

rge,

Nice work on your air / water tests, and thanks for showing SpeedFan results. Your air and water CPU temperatures both agree with the calibration technique I use in my Temp Guide.

RejZoR,

Real Temp is correct, as it uses a Tjunction Max value of 85c for your E4300, which I'll bet is L2 stepping. Regardless of whether it's an L2 or M0 stepping, Tjunction Max 85c is correct.

Core Temp and Hardware Monitor still use an incorrect value of 100c for L2 stepping, which is why their results show 15c too high. Unclewebb has already proven this point during some of his earlier testing and analysis, so you can believe Real Temp.

Comp

So it's possible that mine is running at only 28°C (room temp is around 25°C).
Sure the cooler is good but can it be that good? But ok, if you say it's correct, i guess i have to belive you.
Oh and i've used "Test sensors" feature few times too in case guy above thinks i haven't... unless i have to do more than just click that...

EDIT:
Start Minimized doesn't work at all... I always get entire RealTemp on screen at startup...

[unclewebb]

RejZoR: For accurate idle temps you have to manually do the calibration as outlined in the documentation. Have you tried that yet and what were your results? Test Sensors only checks to see if your thermal sensors are working. It doesn't calibrate them for you.

Start Minimized is broken for some Vista users. I'll see what I can do about that this week.

[RejZoR]

Thanks. But seriously, consider changing the documentation to a step by step form or at least with more logical formatting. I'm all into computers for years and i'm still looking at the docs like total moron, not knowing what to do to properly calibrate this damn thing. It doesn't say anything about adjusting anything what so ever. It's just explaining the process in a very long way but when i want to sum up something i have no clue what i just read... Ok, so i click the "Test sensors" at lowest possible core temperature. Then what?! Is that it? Do i have to manually set anything in the settings?

[WoodButcher]

"Test sensors" does just that nothing else. Testing the sensor does not calibrate anything. Low and slow gives you a place to start calibration because you can measure the air temp and add a few deg to get the core temp, this is what you calibrate or adjust on the settings page. to the right of "Idle Calibration" you can input your adjustments. -.5 or .5 to add. I have added to my cores the fopllowing values to balance the temps, .05, .05,1.0 and .08

[kpo6969]

Thanks. But seriously, consider changing the documentation to a step by step form or at least with more logical formatting. I'm all into computers for years and i'm still looking at the docs like total moron, not knowing what to do to properly calibrate this damn thing. It doesn't say anything about adjusting anything what so ever. It's just explaining the process in a very long way but when i want to sum up something i have no clue what i just read... Ok, so i click the "Test sensors" at lowest possible core temperature. Then what?! Is that it? Do i have to manually set anything in the settings?

http://www.techpowerup.com/realtemp/docs.php
btw: What does this mean?
"Oh and i've used "Test sensors" feature few times too in case guy above thinks i haven't..."

[unclewebb]

Ok, so i click the "Test sensors" at lowest possible core temperature. Then what?!

I just opened up the documentation and went to the Calibration section and I didn't read about clicking on Test Sensors anywhere in that section. Most users who have taken the time to read through the documentation have been very happy with the information they've been able to find there. I understand your complaint that it is wordy like this 70 page thread at XS is so I'll try to explain it in a point blank format so if something doesn't make sense then you can ask me to explain further.

1) Go into the bios and set the multiplier to 6.0 and set the FSB to the default setting. Typically 266 MHz or 333 MHz depending on your processor. See the Intel Specs if you are unsure. Intel lists this spec as Bus Speed which is the equivalent of your FSB X 4.

2) Set your core voltage to approximately 1.10 volts.

3) Start up your computer and open up RealTemp.

4) Start up CPU-Z and confirm your core voltage and that your MHz is either 1600 MHz or 2000 MHz.

5) Open up your computer case and turn your CPU fan up to the highest speed if it is adjustable. The goal is to maximize your cooling and minimize the temperature of your CPU.

6) Let your computer idle for a few minutes until the reported Core Temperature has stabilized.

7) Your reported temperature should be 4C or 5C above the room air temperature near your computer with a Dual core processor and 5C or 6C above your room temperature with a Quad core processor.

8) Open up the RealTemp Settings window.

9) Go into the Idle Calibration section and enter any value between -3.0 and 3.0 for each core so that your reported temperature for each core is in the range outlined in step 7. At idle, the temps across all cores should be the same.

10) Re-boot and reset your bios settings to whatever you normally run at. The calibration that you just did will help improve your reported temperatures from idle to approximately 60C.

11) If you have any problems then e-mail me. The address is in the About... box of RealTemp.

[JohnZS]

I just like to say this is a good program, well done for all the hard work and effort Unclewebb.
I have a bit of a dodgy sensor on my quad, so much so that OCCT reports it as "overheating" (core2), yet your app it never ever goes over 61C on Core2.
Using a QX9650 @ QX9770 1.22VvCore, 1.12V VTT and 1.52V CPU PLL
If only more apps would use your algorithm as a plug in
John

[unclewebb]

Thanks JohnZS. All programs are reading the same info from the same sensors so I'm not sure what OCCT is reporting or why. The competition thinks their interpretation of the data coming from these sensors is right and obviously I think my interpretation is right. Good to hear that RT is working for you.

The PROCHOT# reading at the bottom of RealTemp shows you if a core is overheating. That's Intel speak for Processor Hot which is a signal from the processor that it is too hot and thermal throttling has begun to keep the temperature from getting any hotter. This data is separate from the DTS temperature data but is likely coming from the same sensors. Intel individually calibrates these processors so I'm assuming that PROCHOT# is working correctly even on CPUs with dodgy sensors. If the PROCHOT# boxes are clear in RealTemp then the CPU isn't throttling and it should be running happily at full speed.

I'm working with RejZoR at the moment trying to find out why RealTemp doesn't start minimized for some users. He has it in the Task Scheduler and found that he needs to set a time delay for it to minimize properly on start up. I tried to make RealTemp start up as quickly as possible but it looks like I might have to build in a delay option for Vista users. Whatever it takes to keep everyone happy.

In XP you can drag programs into the All Programs -> Startup folder. Does Vista have this option or do you have to use Task Scheduler?

If you have this problem with Vista then try setting a delay and see if that works. I'm not a fan of Registry mods but I might have to add that option so users can add it to their Start Up area that way.

[RejZoR]

Vista also has startup folder and will also work. But since UAC is enabled by default it will prompt user for confirmation regarding admin rights. Thats why i use Task Scheduler to assign admin rights automatically. But yeah, if you have UAC disabled, it'll work just the same as under WinXP.

[WoodButcher]

Vista also has startup folder and will also work. But since UAC is enabled by default it will prompt user for confirmation regarding admin rights. Thats why i use Task Scheduler to assign admin rights automatically. But yeah, if you have UAC disabled, it'll work just the same as under WinXP.

+1,,,, works fine.

UAC??? no, nien, nada, not happenin!!!! I like vista but I don't need nor want net-nanny.

[unclewebb]

Thanks RejZoR for finally explaining why Start Minimized works for some Vista users and not others. I'll see if I can build in a time delay option for Vista users to see if a quick fix like that can get this feature working for everyone.

RejZoR has also suggested a GUI work over. It won't happen right away but maybe in the fall I could start with a fresh sheet of paper and do a new design. Here's his initial suggestion.



He'd like more info displayed at the top like other programs do so I could ditch the toggle button. The large, easy to read temperature font, would go bye-bye along with Mini-Mode that was simple to implement. I'm sure I could create something new like a Vista widget to replace mini mode as well as a new Mini-Mode for XP users. With a clean design I would have more options here.

He also thinks that the time stamp for the Minimum and Maximum temperature is unnecessary in its present form since it doesn't include a date. I'm always on my computer 24/7 so personally I don't need any date information. With his cleaner design I'd probably use a small pop up when the mouse is hovered over this area to show a full date and time stamp or maybe even a separate window with more thorough information about the highs and lows.

RejZoR thinks the PROCHOT section would make more sense if the status was displayed in English like OK or Throttling or something like that.

I'm open to all ideas. I'm neither a programmer or a GUI designer by trade. I've just been kind of winging it the last few months. I found some inconsistencies with the temp monitoring software that was available so I decided to write my own. Some feedback, good or bad, about the present RealTemp GUI as well as RejZoR's suggestions would be appreciated. Don't hold anything back, I can take it!

Users are generally happy with the numbers that RealTemp displays but is it time for a complete GUI overhaul? Fire up PhotoShop and show me what you'd like to see or not see in a future RealTemp layout. It's your chance for fame and absolutely no fortune.

[RejZoR]

The one with baloon popup is a very cool idea. Hover over the temperature value and RT would display a time and date when that value was reached (be it the highest or the lowest). You save the space, you can display more info when needed and would also look cool. Nice one!

You might not be a programmer or GUI designer by trade but you're doing a fine job! I'm more into prototype designes, beta testing and general design suggestions...

[iTravis]

I just downloaded this to give it a try and it gives me about 5 degrees difference compare to Core Temp, which one should I trust?

[loonym]

I just downloaded this to give it a try and it gives me about 5 degrees difference compare to Core Temp, which one should I trust?

Have you read the realtemp docs? Or any of this thread for that matter? Go over to techpowerup and read the realtemp explanation and instructions and you'll have your answers.

[RejZoR]

Hm, it appears Tj.Max 85 is not the correct value for my E4300. However 95 appears to be. I've totally downclocked and undervolted the core to 1,2GHz @ 0,85V, all fans max and case opened, classic outdoor thermometer was placed near computer for temperature verification.
Ambient temperature was 27°C while RealTemp was reading 19-20°C. Thats just impossibe on air cooling. So by increasing Tj.Max to 95 resulted in reading of 29°C (with additional +2°C to compensate the heat output that can never be completelly eliminated).

@unclewebb
I've checked your internal version with VistaDelay feature and it appears to work nicely. Only thing that i've noticed is that there are few CPU usage spikes while in this delay period. But other than that, it works fine Oh and we have to do something about those trey icons... Not sure what they represent, but damn... :P