My Dual Harper - Asus Z7S WS living review *56K warning*

[neveroffline]

With my Q6600 G0 at 3 GHZ when running WCG on the stock cooler, the heatsink is hot to the touch. The CPU more or less stays below 70C, so I'm fine with it.

I probably haven't pushed this rig hard enough yet to get the HS's warm. 30 mins in Prime95 and they weren't cold, but not really warm, as I consider my ram or NB, but def not cold. They ARE cold idle however, like the same temp as my case metal.

I'm going to run Crysis in the CPU benchmark loop for 2 hours now, I'll let you all know.

[Movieman]

With all due respect I am listening. I was thinking the same thing, however I cannot ignore the logical results which are that under load my temps are higher and at idle they drop down to the constant idle temps which they can hold for over a week and do as I take temp readings each day at the same time idle. If the cooling wasn't working, they simply wouldn't boot or hold an idle temp, nor would they drop quickly from load. That's just the facts.

I've never seen a 1U or 2U unit from Dell, HP, or the like come with aftermarket coolers on Intel CPU's either, and they work fine for years. Passive cooling works, and so do stock HS's with fans; trust me.

I'm listening dn understand that your there seeing the facts and we aren't.
Bottom line is if what you have satisfies you then it's good.
"we" tend to think at the outer edge and sometimes that doesn't coincide with a system that isn't maxxed out.
I am sure your cooling solution is adequate..

[neveroffline]

I'm listening dn understand that your there seeing the facts and we aren't.
Bottom line is if what you have satisfies you then it's good.
"we" tend to think at the outer edge and sometimes that doesn't coincide with a system that isn't maxxed out.
I am sure your cooling solution is adequate..

Crysis has been running for an hour, my CPU's are at 45c and 40c real temp (IE: Coretemp -10c).

HS's are cool to the touch. After this I'm going to run Prime95 for 2hrs which I know shows them at 90c or higher @ 100% load. Technically the highest reading the MSR can output is 127c in 7 bits from each core, and these cpu's have a tjunction of 105c, however real temp = tjunction - delta. So even if I hit 105c, thats still much less than the tjunction (which would throttle the cpu to a lower speed). These CPU's can handle the heat and it's proven.

Server CPU's have much higher tjunctions because they are server cpu's and not desktop, and these are designed to NEVER BE TURNED OFF as well as do a LOT of work 24/7/365. My tjunction isn't 85c, it's a full 20c higher. It's comparing apples and oranges really. The CPU's also use 80watts vs 120.

So yeah, I'm not worried about the temps anymore and am happy with em even with my "stock cooling" which seems to be fine for the data centers that run the internet 24/7/365.

I'll overclock to 400 tomorrow and repeat. Pictures soon, charging batts now. Now I'm just worried about these 667 fb dimms. lol

[Jaco]

You're absolutely right .

But this is Xtremesystems remember
Cpu temps : the lower the better , so we can overclock higher

[neveroffline]

You're absolutely right .

But this is Xtremesystems remember
Cpu temps : the lower the better , so we can overclock higher

lol I know and I promise tomorrow I'm going to overclock, and post pics.

Prime95 is running for an hr now, as well as I'm playing Big Trouble in Little China, running Illustrator CS2 and Photoshop CS2 as well as other things. Here is the SS.


and my HS's are a lil warm now, but still cold on the top.

[jcool]

I can almost guarantuee you that you won't have much luck OCing at these temps. Oh and your tjunction is 95C, not 105C. Like I said before, coretemp assumes the wrong tjunction which is why it misreads temps in the first place. Which means core 0 is one degree below the junction.. which would scare the hell out of me. 65nm Xeons have a 105C tjunction, but not the 45nm ones.
I urge you to at least replace that crappy thermal pad with AS5 if you want to overclock and your CPUs to live a few years. Unless both probes are ed up, this is NOT healthy and it will be even more critical when you OC.

[neveroffline]

I can almost guarantuee you that you won't have much luck OCing at these temps. Oh and your tjunction is 95C, not 105C. Like I said before, coretemp assumes the wrong tjunction which is why it misreads temps in the first place. Which means core 0 is one degree below the junction.. which would scare the hell out of me. 65nm Xeons have a 105C tjunction, but not the 45nm ones.
I urge you to at least replace that crappy thermal pad with AS5 if you want to overclock and your CPUs to live a few years. Unless both probes are ed up, this is NOT healthy and it will be even more critical when you OC.

Will do boss. Tomorrow I will reseat em with AS5. Will let you know how it all goes.

Anyways it took anything I threw at it at these temps and within 1 min 20 seconds I was back to idle temps, so a 50c drop in that time according to coretemp. I had it at these temps for about 5hrs today and they flucuated by maybe a degree or 2c while doing a bunch of other stuff.

[STEvil]

Still running stock but I will try 400 FSB this weekend at some point.

Here is a picture of my heatsink + fan (active) and a pic of the (passive) heatsink.
-snip-

As you can see the passive heatsink is rather larger. Al models from the 5405 to the 5450 come with the option of active or passive, so I think it's a rather well proven point that you don't need to go active cooling. Either way like I said before I'm not trying to cook these by overclocking too much which would in my opinion require better cooling. However, since the heatsink and fan for each model from 5405 - 5450 is identical from Intel, I think I'm set up to 3Ghz.

Part of the reason my heatsink for the cpus aren't warm to the touch is because of the fan directly above them, and the room they are in. Also I'm not feeling them from the top but rather the thick base/bottom (one piece unlike your HR's), and the side fins. There is a 10d temp swing from my upstairs and downstairs, and currently the rig is on a table, in the case with both sides open, a top exhaust fan, front input fan, dual rear exhaust fans so it's getting a lot of airflow downstairs where the cold air shoots out from the ceiling.

Once I get my huge Sigma SD-10 batts recharged I'll take some professional pics for ya all.

If you look at the cases the "passive" heatsinks tend to be used in you will tend to find ducting work which ducts airflow from the intake fans of the case over the "passive" heatsinks.

Yes, if your CPU's are hot your heatsinks should be quite warm as well. If not and you know and have verified good IHS/HS contact then the culprit is poor core/IHS contact.

Your temperatures are not good nor correct. They should be at or below 70c for the heat load the processors produce even on very poor cooling.

There isnt much else I can say other than something somewhere is not right.

[neveroffline]

If you look at the cases the "passive" heatsinks tend to be used in you will tend to find ducting work which ducts airflow from the intake fans of the case over the "passive" heatsinks.

Yes, if your CPU's are hot your heatsinks should be quite warm as well. If not and you know and have verified good IHS/HS contact then the culprit is poor core/IHS contact.

Your temperatures are not good nor correct. They should be at or below 70c for the heat load the processors produce even on very poor cooling.

There isnt much else I can say other than something somewhere is not right.

When was the last time you looked at a 1U or 2U unit? Please post a picture. Passive is passive. Look I have 2 of these with identical processors from Dell, so...yeah.

I know the temps are high, but like I've said a dozen times before, the chips run fine at idle and load, and they are built for this. If my heatsinks were not making good contact how could I even possibly have a stable system for over 2 weeks? Seriously, how? Can you or will you answer that? Why a 50c drop from load within 1.2 minutes?

The heatsinks are obviously working.

I'd love to see you boot this system without them. In fact, in all reality, I'd love to see you post a screenshot with your temps as high running Prime95 on these CPUs or any XEONS, but I know you won't, because you can't.

Tomorrow I will post pics of my actual rig, so just hang in there. I will also try AS5 on ONE CPU just to see the results vs the stock thermal pads. Thanks jcool and everyone else, tomorrow we will know the results from this experiment.

[neveroffline]

I just wanted to apologize to all the people here who tried to help and I somehow offended, including the mods. Jcool brought me here so blame him. lol jk

Yeah I know my temps are high, maybe the highest (yay...not), but I really do appreciate everyones comments on temps.

What I want to set straight is this:

1. These CPU's run without fan's attached or huge heatsinks - stock.
2. My heatsinks are attached fine, and if they were not it would not post/boot.
3. My temps are too high @ 100% load across 8 cores according to you all, but it is stable.

We will figure this out. I want to help as much as I want your help. Thanks again. Dustin

[MaxCFM]

When was the last time you looked at a 1U or 2U unit? Please post a picture. Passive is passive. Look I have 2 of these with identical processors from Dell, so...yeah.

O'rly? 1u Dell 1950s may have "passive" HS to your eyes but 80-90% of the air volume going into the server are going over those HS rest is over the FB-DIMMs and I'll be happy to post pics as I have 2 data center's with well over 400+ 1950's with 5160's or x5460's, and just to make sure I'll grab some pics of a 2u quad socket quad core with "passive" sinks and 400-600CFM of fans did you ever wonder why most 1u/2u servers sound like jets.

Most "passive" 1u/2u sinks are meant to have a good bit of air passed over them by the chassis just cuz they have no fans doesn't always mean they made to run without airflow.

Forgot AnandTech covered the x4450 so here we go...



Very LOUD fans!



Hmmm no CPU's??



Ahhh "passive" cpu HS? these are 1u HS tucked under the RAM tray and if you look close in this one you will see a clear plastic air diverter forcing all the air at them. Every HS in that box doesn't have a fan ON it but needs the silly amount of air moving over/around them.

If I took these HS home and used them on my rig and didn't provide the airflow they where designed for they would run much hotter under load but return the CPUs to an OK temp outside of load. Just cuz they work well in the x4450 doesn't mean they will in my box

[STEvil]

If my heatsinks were not making good contact how could I even possibly have a stable system for over 2 weeks? Seriously, how? Can you or will you answer that? Why a 50c drop from load within 1.2 minutes?

I think I posted about this a couple posts back.. said something about poor contact and throttling.

The heatsinks are obviously working.

I'd love to see you boot this system without them. In fact, in all reality, I'd love to see you post a screenshot with your temps as high running Prime95 on these CPUs or any XEONS, but I know you won't, because you can't.

What? Run the CPU's naked? They might make it to the POST screen but past that I doubt it. You're right, I cant because I dont have those CPU's. Also all my current Xeon cpu's are well behaved and do not pass 65c loaded. Referring to poor contact/pressure Movieman has already posted about his 5350's and using a S604/603 cooler with standoffs that were too tall.

Tomorrow I will post pics of my actual rig, so just hang in there. I will also try AS5 on ONE CPU just to see the results vs the stock thermal pads. Thanks jcool and everyone else, tomorrow we will know the results from this experiment. [/QUOTE]

I dont think the thermal interface material is the issue at these temperatures unless your heatsinks are not producing enough mounting pressure. Even so the hot IHS should cause the TIM to melt and allow the heatsink to settle if it has poor pressure.

Be sure to pay special attention to the contact patch between the IHS and heatsink in case they are horribly convex/concave.

[neveroffline]

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[neveroffline]

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[jcool]

Guys,

let's not get too heated over this temperature issue here (no pun intended..)
The main thing is that Justin's rig works, and if these CPUs run FSB 400 at 110C coretemp stable, then that's fine with me (they won't though )

Anyway, I promised you guys some pics a while ago. After I finally got around to outfit my little monster cruncher with an appropriate hdd subsystem, I thought I'd let you have a look at it. Nowhere near finished of course, but it's working well.










HDD subsystem consists of my Adaptec 5405 raidcon (1,2Ghz Dualcore IOP/256MB DDR2-ECC) and 4 WD6400AAKS (dual 334GB-platter 7200RPM SATA drives). System now has watercooling for the HDDs (brand new Watercool Silentstar Quad Rev. 2) and Raidcon (Aquacomputer Twinplex XT).

Will post benches of different raid levels in the storage forums later, speed is looking great so far.

[[XC] NetburstXE]

That is one awesome set up jcool!

[neveroffline]

Looking sweet as always jcool. Nice new NB HS as well, guess you didn't need to cut that fin afterall. LOL. Have you seen the new WD Velociraptor just released? $1/GB but looks worth it.

Well I'm shopping for a new case and new coolers. Yes I give. Finding a case for this puppy is really pissing me off. I don't want to use the backplates as I'm pretty sure thats 99% where my problem is. Thats the only reason I bought my case, but it turns out the standoffs were for a full EATX not the CEB 12x10.5. ARGH.

My current case. If you look closely at the tray you'll see the standoffs, but they only fit the full eatx, maybe only off by an inch for the Z7S, but alas I didn't know that when I bought it and the fiasco ensued.
The Chenbro I'm looking at and the Enlight I'm looking at.

As for coolers, this was the best I could find at newegg.

And the saga that is this build continues...lol - thanks for everyones help and patience.

[jcool]

Looking sweet as always jcool.

Thanks

Nice new NB HS as well, guess you didn't need to cut that fin afterall. LOL.

Thanks again, but it isn't new. You can find it on lots of pics starting page 5 or something.. but you're right, the Ötzi fits without cutting. As does the HR-05.

Have you seen the new WD Velociraptor just released? $1/GB but looks worth it.

Had one a few weeks ago, lasted 30 minutes, died, waiting on RMA. Oh well
But a fine drive it is, as long as it works

But I won't put one in my cruncher.. I got my 1,8TB Raid 5 array now (still building.. should've chosen quick init, lol)

Anyway this is what the HDD setup in raid 0 looks like:



Raid 5 won't be as impressive, obviously, but I can live with 250-300MB/s in Raid 5

Stay tuned

[minhgi]

Harddrive and memory came in. Memory bandwidth had improve to 4050MB/s at 333FBS. I am pretty happy with my system, but the overclocking had not been a smooth ride.

I can push the FSB to 400, but it will not pass any of the stablizing test. I am afraid that my L5420 is holding me back and there is not a way to raise the vcore with Z7S.

Until Asus release another bios with the a vcore feature, I am at a stop.

[Jaco]

Is that raidcard watercooled ? And the HD's too ?

that's just sick man

[minhgi]

364mb for transfer is pretty good number

I was only getting 177MB and 5.8 ms access

Watercool raid now that to crazy!?1?

[jt1]

So I got an Open Box Z7S board and it didn't come with any accessories - no cables, sound card, debug card, etc. I plan on getting a case with the proper standoffs so I probably won't need the backplates. But, are there any accessories that you guys think I should get to make installation go smoothly?

[neveroffline]

So I got an Open Box Z7S board and it didn't come with any accessories - no cables, sound card, debug card, etc. I plan on getting a case with the proper standoffs so I probably won't need the backplates. But, are there any accessories that you guys think I should get to make installation go smoothly?

Yeah thats no good, sorry man. I would at the very least call the people who you bought it from and tell them what is missing vs. sending the board back. That will probably be quicker. My RMA took over 2 weeks.

Basically anything jcool has on his rig, I would consider getting. Unfortunately many are not avail here in the states. What case are you looking at because I am looking at a new one for this build as well?

Where did you buy your stuff from?

[Jaco]

So I got an Open Box Z7S board and it didn't come with any accessories - no cables, sound card, debug card, etc. I plan on getting a case with the proper standoffs so I probably won't need the backplates. But, are there any accessories that you guys think I should get to make installation go smoothly?

The separate soundcard is part of the motherboard , that's not an accessory in my opinion. The debug card is nice , but not really necesarry (although the power/reset buttons are cool )

I would send it back .

[jcool]

Thanks for the heads-up guys

Is that raidcard watercooled ? And the HD's too ?

that's just sick man

Gee, thanks

Yeah raidcon & HDDs are watercooled.. while HDD watercooling isn't mandatory using this box does have big advantages in my setup:

1. They are mounted nice & tight, 4 HDDs only using 3 5 1/4" slots
2. This case has only 5 1/4"
3. Sound dampening is perfect in there, I don't even hear access
4. Also gives a good shock protection for transport etc, as well as good cooling for 24/7 operation
5. Looks sick, especially when I will put a 2nd box in there some time (will have to rearrange though)

Oh and about the raidcon.. that's the whole reason I had to go WCing here. It gets simply too hot with stock cooling, after 5 mins idle it hits 90C and screams like mad, lol. Of course you could add a fan, but I hate those 40mm screamers.. plus I hardly got it under 75C even with a delta on it
Watercooling is much better, now running the raidcon @ 46C load