Real Temp - New temp program for Intel Core processors

[aldave]

lol hersounds u pirated assasins creed XD

[RocKer]

Can somebody help.

When i want to install Real Temp it say's "Driver not found" so i cant install it.

I use RealTemp v2.1,in the "readme file" it say's that it is no longer needed to install that driver.

What can i do to get it to work?

[unclewebb]

Rocker: If you have downloaded it using the link in post#1 then it should work fine. If you are using a limited account then you need to run RealTemp as an Administrator. The IA32 driver is no longer being used by RealTemp. The files are also zipped and you need to unzip the archive before it will work.

Hope that helps.

[Demo]

Made another comparison with CT 0.97 and RT 2.1

Idle temps are detected with 1c difference between programs (RT showing 1c lower compared to CT) by using a ++ calibration on the idle temps.

But during a certain amount of heat generated the CT readings pull ahead by 2~4c difference from RT ( again RT reads lower with ++ calibration )

I tried booting my system to 266x6 at 1.275(lowest VID possible on my Q6600 G0) resulting in a +1/-1 reading on CT & RT. ( on 15mins of Prime95 v25.6 SmallFTT )

Returning to my OC settings of 400*8 @ 1.335v ( bios volts ) I noticed that RT's reading is comparable to CT upto 49c only when both programs start to indicate any value of 50c, CT seems to start pulling ahead upto 4c difference from RT.

Basing on my unreliable room thermometer here, im getting 31c for my ambient. Using RT with 0 calibration shows my lowest core at 29c, + 32 & ++35



Loaded



Idle


Since RT detects the TjMax of a Q6600 at 95c w/c a lot of people believe the TjMax is 95c instead of 100c or 105c i would assume that the 0 calibration reading on RT is the correct temp since im getting the correct temps when i deduct the delta to TjMax with the current TjMax detected

[RocKer]

Rocker: If you have downloaded it using the link in post#1 then it should work fine. If you are using a limited account then you need to run RealTemp as an Administrator. The IA32 driver is no longer being used by RealTemp. The files are also zipped and you need to unzip the archive before it will work.

Hope that helps.

I do all these things,but it still say's "driver not found".

O yes i use XP 64bit,is that maybe the problem.

[AdmiralThrawn]

I was able to artificially drive my Core Temperature up to a 100°C in CT (90°C in RealTemp), so i dunno, but those Tjunction Values seem pretty wrong. Since this was at 4GHz using an E8500, the chip should have crashed or throttled at such a temp... Both it did not do.

Haven't tried higher, but at those values, my CNPS 7700-Cu Cooler was just a bit more than hand-warm..

[Demo]

I was able to artificially drive my Core Temperature up to a 100°C in CT (90°C in RealTemp), so i dunno, but those Tjunction Values seem pretty wrong. Since this was at 4GHz using an E8500, the chip should have crashed or throttled at such a temp... Both it did not do.

Haven't tried higher, but at those values, my CNPS 7700-Cu Cooler was just a bit more than hand-warm..

Try 105c, it might throttle there. unclewebb used an external temp reader so there could be differences on the internal reads and it could be upto 5c

[AdmiralThrawn]

Try 105c, it might throttle there. unclewebb used an external temp reader so there could be differences on the internal reads and it could be upto 5c

Ok, if I have enough time today (i guess i will), I'll try even more.

[rge]

It should throttle at DTS=0 and shutdown at temps 20-25C above that.

When DTS=0, coretemp will read temp of 100, ie at tjmax setting, and Realtemp will read 95C. But that will tell you nothing, unless you are verifying/measuring the temperature in an independent way (and if you are doing so, ignore this, I missed it). If you want to approximate core temp, need to measure Tcase...
1) with heatsink off, otherwise you are cooling tcase and creating gradient.
2) at idle steady state to minimize any gradient (slowly bring to idle...with E8400, .9v and 6x200 works well, with q6600 dont know how, or if possible to bring up slowly)

The gradient from core sensor to between the cores across die...is less than 0.1C at idle steady state, and ~15% of tested programs at load steady state, and nearly 1/3 tested programs at load steady state had less than 1C gradient...figure 5...but read whole paper from intel
http://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/0709/0709.1861.pdf

The gradient from thermocouple on die (via hole drilled to it) to casing temp was measured in one experiment...and found to be 0.4C
http://www.overclockers.com/tips443/

Or you can estimate the gradient at steady state idle from die to tcase (first paper shows gradient across die is <0.1C at steady idle), from reading several intel papers. One was
http://www.flomerics.com/flotherm/te...apers/t324.pdf
Thermal conductivity [W/m-&#176;K], die is 120.4, die attach adhesive is 0.9, mold compound is 0.63, air is 0.0261. Gradient measured from tj4 (68C) to tc (67.9C) was 0.1C across ~130um of mold cap. Temp gradient should also be nearly 0.1C across 75 microns of die attach adhesive (higher conductivity and thinner).

It would be hard to believe a gradient higher than 1C then by just increasing the thickness of the IHS, especially given intel has been researching for years/making improvements to reduce this gradient. Though Intel in various papers test and list thermal conductivity for silicon die, ceramic die, die attach adhesive, IHS compound, etc, no proof exists they are using these exact ones, but I doubt they are using ones less effective than ones they have published/successfully tested.

[Vinas]

I believe the tjmax for our e84.e85's to be closer to 95C for a few reasons.

The thermal limit of the e6600 is 60.1°C and we accept that the tj is 85 for this cpu... We know 85-60.1=24.9. Since the thermal limit of the e8400 is 72.4C, and 72.4+24.9=97.3, would it be safe to say that these processors might have some tj range between 95c and 105c? Yes I realize these are 60mn and 45nm parts, but there seems to be some relation. Those thermal limits are posted on Intels spec sheet. I used the e6600 as an example because I have both CPUs.

Thoughts?

[Dostoyevsky77]

This program is designed for all of the Core series processors. I included the ability to run it on some P4 processors for testing purposes. If it doesn't run on your P4 properly then there is nothing I can do. The P4 doesn't have the sensor needed for core temp readings so it will read 0 for DTS and show temp at max. I tried!

No worries, it works just fine on our QX6700, E8400, and E6750! That's all we care about. Here's a screenie from a 17+ hours on Everest stress. Oh & my personal appreciation to Kain XS for his work on testing this! Thanks, mate!



The rest of my pictures are sigged.

[unclewebb]

AdmiralThrawn: Sounds like you were getting close to throttling but a properly functioning E8400 will not crash at 95C at default MHz and voltage. There is still lots of head room left before that happens. If you are overclocking and overvolting and running something like Orthos then you'll have an impossible time getting up to these temps without a crash but when lightly loaded, it's a different story.

Thermal throttling seems to start to happen when DTS drops down to 2 or 3. That's when the PROCHOT# signal will be activated which was reported correctly by RealTemp during my testing.

Vinas: Everything I believed about the relationship between Intel specified thermal limits and actual TjMax were thrown out the window yesterday when I was testing a revision M0 E2160.

Intel Thermal Specification
TCase Max:
E2160 73.2&#176;C
E8400 72.4&#176;C

Going by those specifications a person would be led to believe that TjMax for the E2160 is at least as high as the E8400 and maybe even a degree or two higher. That is not the case.

The E8400 has a measured TjMax=95&#176;C but the E2160 during the same kind of testing is only TjMax=85&#176;C.

Lesson learned is that you can't look at the Intel Thermal Specifications and determine anything about TjMax.

RealTemp v2.2 should be available later tonight which will include a fix for the M0 processors.

I now have serious doubts about the E6x50 series but until I actually test one I'll be leaving them at TjMax=95&#176;C. RealTemp v2.2 will allow setting a TjMax offset of +/- 5, 10, 15 for those that wish to experiment or don't believe the RealTemp chosen TjMax.

[HDCHOPPER]

hang tuff unclewebb you will get it !

[Demo]

Would a 25~30c Delta from TjMax be a safe assumption that our processors are running with in intel's specifications?

[unclewebb]

hang tuff unclewebb you will get it !

Looks like I might have to go to my local computer store and buy one of each!

I'd like to think that we're finally making some progress on the great mystery of Intel core temperatures.

As long as your processor is not throttling, it is running within the Intel specs. My one great theory still holds true. As long as you are Prime / Orthos stable and you are not throttling then you don't have to worry too much about temperatures. You will lose long term stability if you are pushing your processor too hard.

[Chrysalis]

I remember reporting my idle temps here for my 6420 on my stock fan which are at this moment 22 and 25 degrees respectively for the 2 cores and someone commented thatshard to believe as I am also overclocking the chip to 6600 speeds. The ocforum link shows B2 stepping as 85 tjmax and sure enough it seems my speedfan temps are right. They both moved 7 and 10 degrees on the tester that tests for stuck temps.

[unclewebb]

Overclocking by itself doesn't create a lot of extra idle heat. It's when you start to increase the core voltage that the idle temps will go up.

What is your room temp Chrysalis? My B2 E6400 needs an Idle correction of (++) to keep the idle temps from going below ambient when doing the low MHz / low voltage test as outlined in post#1. You should try that test and report your results. We could also use someone with an E6750 to do that test before I have to go buy one of them too.

[unclewebb]

Version 2.2 is released.
http://www.fileden.com/files/2008/3/...7/RealTemp.zip

You can read about the updates at the end of the first post.

[Snyxxx]

My one great theory still holds true. As long as you are Prime / Orthos stable and you are not throttling then you don't have to worry too much about temperatures.

Absolutely the bottom line. Could not have said it better.

[rge]

I now have serious doubts about the E6x50 series but until I actually test one I'll be leaving them at TjMax=95&#176;C. RealTemp v2.2 will allow setting a TjMax offset of +/- 5, 10, 15 for those that wish to experiment or don't believe the RealTemp chosen TjMax.

Thinking higher or lower?

I dont have my E6850 in now, just had shoulder surgery, so cant change it out for another week to do any more testing, but attached is pics I took on two different occasions, both times, undervolted, underclocked, and let temps slowly rise on idle and thin matte tape over cpu. At lower temps suggested a tjmax of 95, at higher more accurate temps of 92-93...but need to retest and make sure equilibrates in higher range, tjmax of 90 might be possible, but seriously doubt 85. These 4 pics were most accurate ones, temp I know had equilibrated for short time, and I marked delta tjmax read by DTS in red (first 3 pics are old speedfan that assumed tjmax 85 when E6850 1st came out).

Edit...would be nice though if someone else tested one to verify.

[Demo]

Whats the matte tape for ?

[Ace-a-Rue]

hey rge, what kind of shoulder surgery did you get..scope?

just curious; i have a shoulder problem and been thinking about seeing a surgeon about it.

[Spacehead]

Version 2.2 is released.
http://www.fileden.com/files/2008/3/...7/RealTemp.zip

You can read about the updates at the end of the first post.

Nice, it works! Thanks

[rge]

Whats the matte tape for ?

IR gun wont read correctly from shiny surfaces as they disperse too much of the reflected IR. But with matte tape/masking tape and sitting against cpu to capture most reflected IR, reads nearly same as a calibrated temp probe, ie within about half a degree.

Ace-a-Rue: yep, had subacromial decompression by scope 3 days ago (basically grind away some sharp bone from acromion so does not stab/tear/irritate my rotator cuff when I raise my arm above horizontal)

[Chrysalis]

Overclocking by itself doesn't create a lot of extra idle heat. It's when you start to increase the core voltage that the idle temps will go up.

What is your room temp Chrysalis? My B2 E6400 needs an Idle correction of (++) to keep the idle temps from going below ambient when doing the low MHz / low voltage test as outlined in post#1. You should try that test and report your results. We could also use someone with an E6750 to do that test before I have to go buy one of them too.

no idea I have no thermometer but it is the coldest place I have lived in.

cores are now 23 and 28 respectively as its now daytime.

Wont doing ++ for the sake of it report wrong temps? as according to that other site B2 stepping should be left how the default is set.